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  1. #31

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    Re: Has universal orlando passed dlr as the #2 theme park resort in the u.s.

    Quote Originally Posted by hollywood1939 View Post
    They just spent 2 billion dollars fixing DCA and your reaction is "Hey that's great, but what's next"?
    In fact, they spent a bit over 1 billion dollars fixing DCA, and my reaction is "you should have done that ten years ago."

    To me the only reason for glee about what Disney has done in the last five years is in comparison to the creative quagmire it's been in for the previous fifteen. Carsland or no, Disney still is in the stone age compared to when it really was Disney: when it was constantly innovating new theme park technology, when new attractions were coming out every couple years that topped everything Disney itself had done before, and when the only question guests had was not if their socks were going to be blown off, but how far.

    Whether or not Universal eventually overtakes Disney in theme parks, one thing is certain: after a quarter century of lowering the bar on innovation and creative risk-taking, the Accountaneers and Marketeers running Disney are doing everything they can to make it an easy target.


    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    While Disney is kicking back, USO keeps going, with no sign of slowing down. And solid rumors and announcements beat nothing, because even if Disney is up to something, their lack of progress means it'll be behind.
    Bingo.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 02-19-2013 at 06:15 PM.
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  2. #32

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    Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

    The difference is that Universal has a lot of catching up to do. They are under a new ownership group that actually is focusing on the theme park branch! On the other hand, Disney has ruled the theme park crown in North America for almost 60 years now. WoC is a night time lagoon show that far surpasses that snooze fest lagoon show at Unirversal. Not one crying baby in that show because the intro already put them and their parents to sleep. Disney now owns Marvel and Star Wars, don't expect them to just do nothing with those franchises. If DLR or WDW open a Marvel or Star Wars based land/park. Expect to see many Potter kids trading in their wands for light sabres, and many Universal execs once again crying in their Butterbeers. Again, one company is playing catch up and is building like crazy in doing so. The other still has a comfortable lead and does not need to play "top this" with the little guys. USO will never see 16.1 million guests in a year like the Disneyland. IoA and USO's combined 2011 attendance is still only 13.7 million! You cannot say "leave the numbers out of it", the people speak with their wallets and have clearly chosen DLR or WDW as the superior value.

  3. #33

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    Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

    Once again, USO really doesn't have that much of an impact on the DLR. You have to really understand that the theme park culture on the west coast is a lot different than that on the east coast.

    Think of DL/DCA/USH/Knotts/Magic Mountain as a huge WDW. Southern California is populated with 22 million people. Most of who can go to these places at a moment's whim. Not to mention all the beaches, skiing, golf, fishing, biking, museums, and all tyoes of recreational activities. It's not as if they are making a once in a lifetime vacation and can only do one or two parks or activities. If they go to one park one week they can easily go to another park another week.

    USH will be opening their own version of Harry Potter. Knotts is in the process of majorly cleaning itself up and focusing on refurbishing one of its major rides, if I'm not mistaken Magic Mountain is in the process of putting in another coaster. The West Coast is different because the success of one park is beneficial to all the parks. Their is a lot of competition and this competition ensures that each park remain fresh and exciting, and even if one park remains stagnant it is usually ok as the huge local population is not particularly loyal to one park over the other.

    So it is somewhat useless to be concerned with what is going on at USO in terms of its replacing the DLR as the number two resort. The DLR really doesn't need to worry about that. It does however need to pay more attention to what is going on locally.

  4. #34

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    Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Once again, USO really doesn't have that much of an impact on the DLR. You have to really understand that the theme park culture on the west coast is a lot different than that on the east coast.
    THANK YOU. THIS. How many times must this be stated?
    Last edited by jasmineray; 02-19-2013 at 06:28 PM.
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  5. #35

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    Re: Has universal orlando passed dlr as the #2 theme park resort in the u.s.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    with the addition of Potter which was a massive success, moreso than Carsland.
    Really? You may be counting your chickens before they hatch.

    Potter was a success in that it made up for failure, and added growth, the biggest part is the recovery. Carsland is stacking on something that was doing fine, even previously growing. USO was in a big decline, you can look at the big dip in it's attendance, or revenue.
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  6. #36

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    Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Once again, USO really doesn't have that much of an impact on the DLR. You have to really understand that the theme park culture on the west coast is a lot different than that on the east coast.

    Think of DL/DCA/USH/Knotts/Magic Mountain as a huge WDW. Southern California is populated with 22 million people. Most of who can go to these places at a moment's whim. Not to mention all the beaches, skiing, golf, fishing, biking, museums, and all tyoes of recreational activities. It's not as if they are making a once in a lifetime vacation and can only do one or two parks or activities. If they go to one park one week they can easily go to another park another week.

    USH will be opening their own version of Harry Potter. Knotts is in the process of majorly cleaning itself up and focusing on refurbishing one of its major rides, if I'm not mistaken Magic Mountain is in the process of putting in another coaster. The West Coast is different because the success of one park is beneficial to all the parks. Their is a lot of competition and this competition ensures that each park remain fresh and exciting, and even if one park remains stagnant it is usually ok as the huge local population is not particularly loyal to one park over the other.

    So it is somewhat useless to be concerned with what is going on at USO in terms of its replacing the DLR as the number two resort. The DLR really doesn't need to worry about that. It does however need to pay more attention to what is going on locally.
    I agree they are not in competition. It's just ranking of theme parks in general, regardless of financial competitiveness. WDW was always considered the #1 theme park destination with DLR second...they certainly don't compete but it was a well-regarded opinion. The OP is asking if maybe USO will replace DLR as #2.

  7. #37

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    Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneylandDragon View Post
    The difference is that Universal has a lot of catching up to do. They are under a new ownership group that actually is focusing on the theme park branch! On the other hand, Disney has ruled the theme park crown in North America for almost 60 years now. WoC is a night time lagoon show that far surpasses that snooze fest lagoon show at Unirversal. Not one crying baby in that show because the intro already put them and their parents to sleep. Disney now owns Marvel and Star Wars, don't expect them to just do nothing with those franchises. If DLR or WDW open a Marvel or Star Wars based land/park. Expect to see many Potter kids trading in their wands for light sabres, and many Universal execs once again crying in their Butterbeers. Again, one company is playing catch up and is building like crazy in doing so. The other still has a comfortable lead and does not need to play "top this" with the little guys. USO will never see 16.1 million guests in a year like the Disneyland. IoA and USO's combined 2011 attendance is still only 13.7 million! You cannot say "leave the numbers out of it", the people speak with their wallets and have clearly chosen DLR or WDW as the superior value.
    Irrelevant..the fact that USO is on the move and trying to win over their newly-arriving tourists by improving general quality of their experience has nothing to do with the past. This thread is about how they are competing in the nationwide theme park race as of this moment.

  8. #38

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    Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

    It's kind of hard to compare USO to DLR at all. For one different coasts and different visitor demographics. Another point is they just finished the DCA make over what 6-8 months ago. WWoHP was built 3 years ago. It's pretty hard to compare these situations. I know USO is working on more expansion currently(one is a clone BTW) but even those items didn't start until what 2 years after WWoHP?? I think we have to wait and see before any conclusions can be made for DLR's history. Still though the main point here is USO has no effect on DLR. WDW thats a different story.

  9. #39

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    Re: Has universal orlando passed dlr as the #2 theme park resort in the u.s.

    Quote Originally Posted by swampymarsh View Post
    Really? You may be counting your chickens before they hatch.

    Potter was a success in that it made up for failure, and added growth, the biggest part is the recovery. Carsland is stacking on something that was doing fine, even previously growing. USO was in a big decline, you can look at the big dip in it's attendance, or revenue.
    And Carsland wasn't made to save a failing theme park..? Show me again those attendance numbers for DCA...

  10. #40

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    Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    I agree they are not in competition. It's just ranking of theme parks in general, regardless of financial competitiveness. WDW was always considered the #1 theme park destination with DLR second...they certainly don't compete but it was a well-regarded opinion. The OP is asking if maybe USO will replace DLR as #2.
    It can be argued that the DLR is the #1 resort and WDW is #2. But I don't want to start that argument for the millionth time on these boards.

    Will USO replace the DLR as #2? Anything is possible. But i wouldn't really care if it did. The local fan-base will offset any declines resulting from tourists flocking to USO. What should be more of a concern is USO causing WDW be reduced to the #2 slot if it isn't there or close to there already.

  11. #41

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    Re: Has universal orlando passed dlr as the #2 theme park resort in the u.s.

    Quote Originally Posted by swampymarsh View Post
    Potter was a success in that it made up for failure, and added growth, the biggest part is the recovery. Carsland is stacking on something that was doing fine, even previously growing. USO was in a big decline, you can look at the big dip in it's attendance, or revenue.
    I missed the part where DCA was doing "fine". Also Potter made up for a failure... is that what we're calling IOA now? I'll remind you that the park's signature attraction prior to Potter was consistently ranked at or near the top as best themed attraction in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Once again, USO really doesn't have that much of an impact on the DLR. You have to really understand that the theme park culture on the west coast is a lot different than that on the east coast.

    This makes sense if you're talking about financial competition... but if you're talking about national relevance I think, once again, that the comparison is appropriate. DLR's presence on the national scene has remained largely the same for the past ten years (hence their new national ad push) while USO has grown (thanks to Potter mostly). Has it effected DLR's numbers? Probably Not. Has USO seen a comparative boost? Yes. That's what were talking about.

    One thing can gain popularity relative to another without effecting the second's numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by biggsworth View Post
    WWoHP was built 3 years ago. It's pretty hard to compare these situations. I know USO is working on more expansion currently(one is a clone BTW) but even those items didn't start until what 2 years after WWoHP??


    Minion Mayhem got started about a year after Potter opened. So I guess to be fair that gives Disney till this summer to announce something big... which I think they will.

    Ultimately, I think right at this moment we just happen to be in a 6-8 month period of
    enormous excitement at Universal with very little excitement from Disney.
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  12. #42

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    Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

    No. But they are making tremendous progress and have really made the East Coast theme park scene more competitive. And I say this as a big fan of Universal Orlando. We've got a family trip to Orlando during Spring Break and will be visiting both USO and IOA--in addition to WDW. Prior to 2010, we never bothered with Universal and stayed strictly on Disney property. I love what Universal has done *and* is planning to do. But DLR, with the recent improvements to DCA, is still better.

    Quote Originally Posted by planodisney View Post
    I am not even realy talking about quality, but more in terms of scope, future outlook and awareness by the general public.
    Now, in terms of "future outlook," yes, Universal has bigger, confirmed plans (and I'm excited about ALL of them). But that alone doesn't make it the #2 theme park resort. Universal's core park experience started at a lower point than DLR, so it still has catching up to do. With continued support from its big-spending, corporate parent, it might get there in the future. I'm excited for what they've done and for helping push Disney to realize that it can't stand pat in the theme park industry.

  13. #43

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    Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Irrelevant..the fact that USO is on the move and trying to win over their newly-arriving tourists by improving general quality of their experience has nothing to do with the past. This thread is about how they are competing in the nationwide theme park race as of this moment.
    So the 1 billion dollar DCA make over was not, let me borrow your words "improving quality of their experience"? They are not competing for nationwide theme park race at the moment. WDW is dominating it's east coast competition and is marketed more east of the rockies, DLR is dominating the west coast. DLR is still the better theme park experience than USO. The numbers merely support that. Even with Potter, IoA still only managed 7 million guests in 2011 as Disneyland drew 16 million guests. A bunch of shiny new things does not make a park better in quality or experience. Universal still lacks any of the charm, history or nostalgia that makes a Disney park a completely more rewarding experience than Universal. USO cannot even be #2 in their own back yard. Like I said, the people speak with their wallets, and even with new additions to USO and IoA, DLR is still clearly the #2 theme park destination in the country. It may be nearly a 60 year old park, but the experience is still one of the most rewarding and magical theme parks worldwide. Often imitated but never duplicated.

  14. #44

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    Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneylandDragon View Post
    So the 1 billion dollar DCA make over was not, let me borrow your words "improving quality of their experience"? They are not competing for nationwide theme park race at the moment. WDW is dominating it's east coast competition and is marketed more east of the rockies, DLR is dominating the west coast. DLR is still the better theme park experience than USO. The numbers merely support that. Even with Potter, IoA still only managed 7 million guests in 2011 as Disneyland drew 16 million guests. A bunch of shiny new things does not make a park better in quality or experience. Universal still lacks any of the charm, history or nostalgia that makes a Disney park a completely more rewarding experience than Universal. USO cannot even be #2 in their own back yard. Like I said, the people speak with their wallets, and even with new additions to USO and IoA, DLR is still clearly the #2 theme park destination in the country. It may be nearly a 60 year old park, but the experience is still one of the most rewarding and magical theme parks worldwide. Often imitated but never duplicated.
    oh boy...

    Look, no one is arguing about numbers, attendance figures, or anything like that. Magic Kingdom has higher attendance numbers than Disneyland, does that make it the better park?

    Ok so now that we've got that out of the way, I'll address your argument about DLR's pros over USO:

    Charm? It can be argued that Universal has a lot of charm, you're just basing things off of your opinions while my argument is cemented by facts of upcoming projects Universal is moving forward on and tangible evidence that their parks are improving while the DLR is stagnant, or in some ways, even in decline.

    History? Universal actually has a great history but there are no books on it. I'm sure if you looked hard enough you could find something interesting though.

    Nostalgia? Well for one thing, many see USO's relevance (a main point in this thread regarding why it can be considered better, so good job solidifying your opposing point) as an advantage, and they keep doing hard work to keep their parks and properties up to date--of course, that doesn't mean ET and Popeye don't bring people nostalgia. But even more importantly, DL is a lotttt older--of course it'll have more nostalgia, it's been around about forty years longer!

    By the time USO opened, of course DL was going to be in a stronger spot than DL, DL was pushing forty! That argument makes no sense. The point of this thread is to point out the possibility that maybe when USO is as old as DL is now, it will be number 1, or at least number 2, thanks to all of their ambition, hard work, and improvement in overall quality. Could you make the same statement about DL when it was USO's age? Maybe, but you definitely can't say that now.

  15. #45

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    Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    By the time USO opened, of course DL was going to be in a stronger spot than DL, DL was pushing forty! That argument makes no sense. The point of this thread is to point out the possibility that maybe when USO is as old as DL is now, it will be number 1, or at least number 2, thanks to all of their ambition, hard work, and improvement in overall quality. Could you make the same statement about DL when it was USO's age? Maybe, but you definitely can't say that now.
    You are basing this projection of USO possibly making itself #2 by it's rapid recent growth and the reletive stagnant immediate future of DLR....oh boy.

    You really are stressing the "what have you done for me lately?" angle. DLR just finished a billion dollar expansion! When USO turns 40, it may be complete garbage for all we know. How do we know they can continue such rapid expansion wile still not pulling the numbers like its Disney counterparts? I guess there is a lot of "what ifs" involved for USO to possibly surpass DLR, but they are big what ifs. It's like you are saying: What if USO continues to expand for the next decade and DLR does nothing? I can definately say DL still has ambition, hard work and the quality has always been there. DL does not need to reinvent the wheel, it is already working fine, DCA had a problem and Disney spent a billion dollars fixing it. Even with potter at USO they could not even pull 10 million guests in a year, I don't see how any other addition will help them draw closer to DLR or WDW. If USO was clearly the "better quality experience" the numbers would reflect it. Right now Universal is all Potter and a hodge podge of other movie franchises that most people either love or hate. Universal is making moves now, so yes if you want to say right this moment they are on pace to draw even then fine. But I would not bank on DLR just sitting around and doing nothing for too long. DLR is just waiting to counter USH's Potter expansion before they do something in my opinion.

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