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Thread: 3rd Gate

  1. #46

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    Re: 3rd Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    Disney Expansion Plans Are Reason for Streetcar Proposal

    During questioning by Orange County Transportation Authority directors Thursday morning, Anaheim City Councilwoman Kris Murray acknowledged what insiders have been saying for months about the city's planned streetcar project: A major reason for the transit line is to allow expansion of the Disneyland Resort.


    West Katella Avenue and West Ball Road Ball, which border the park, are “beyond capacity,” Murray said. “If we're ever going to see a third gate at Disneyland,” she said, “we need to get cars off the road.”

    Disney Expansion Plans Are Reason for Streetcar Proposal - Voice of OC | Orange County's Nonprofit Investigative News Agency: OC North
    If an overtaxed Katella and and Ball road is the problem, then the streetcar is the worst choice: doesn't run on it's own elevated system like a monorail but shares the road with other cars, no ability to switch lanes since it is on a track, potential to block up an entire lane and back up the system if a train goes down. Worse, they are only ordering 10 trains, which doesn't nearly have the capacity to make a sizable reduction in cars.

    The better choice is buses. If they want something sexy, they can go with double decker buses, which are a sleek and iconic transportation symbol for many a cities. There is even a hybrid electric double decker bus maker in nearby Riverside that they can easily call up. More capacity, flexibility and novelty and all at a lower cost. Come on Anaheim, it's not that hard.
    Last edited by choco choco; 03-04-2013 at 06:32 PM.

  2. #47

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    Re: 3rd Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    As CaliforniaAdventurer pointed out, the parking lot zoning is operating under a variance. Disney has a site selected for the third park. That is a separate issue from if/when they move forward on the project. If this was 1967 you'd be saying the location of Walt Disney World is just a rumor.


    Six years at best before its open? Geeze!
    It seems the best location...but I will still wait and see Disney has had rumors for years about new rides/attractions in Disneyland yet most of those rumors have yet to come true and we still have a bunch of unused land

  3. #48

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    Re: 3rd Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by choco choco View Post
    which doesn't nearly have the capacity to make a sizable reduction in cars.
    1,000 cars off the road per hour, is that enough capacity?
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  4. #49

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    Re: 3rd Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    It seems the best location...but I will still wait and see Disney has had rumors for years about new rides/attractions in Disneyland yet most of those rumors have yet to come true and we still have a bunch of unused land
    I know how you feel. I don't get my hopes up for any of the Disney projects. I believe them when they announce it and start digging with a shovel.
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  5. #50

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    Re: 3rd Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by swampymarsh View Post
    1,000 cars off the road per hour, is that enough capacity?
    Don't know how accurate that number is, but even granting it, the streetcar is not the ideal solution.

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    Re: 3rd Gate

    I think it may be possible to give the tram it's own dedicated lane - near Disneyland along Harbor there's plenty of space, and on the rest of its route it weaves around other streets - and just north of GardenWalk there's power lines parallel to the street and ample space for a tramway.

  7. #52

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    Re: 3rd Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    I think it may be possible to give the tram it's own dedicated lane - near Disneyland along Harbor there's plenty of space, and on the rest of its route it weaves around other streets - and just north of GardenWalk there's power lines parallel to the street and ample space for a tramway.
    Unless it is physically separated and/or heavily patrolled I image people would just help themselves to using the "open" lane.

  8. #53

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    Re: 3rd Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Unless it is physically separated and/or heavily patrolled I image people would just help themselves to using the "open" lane.
    It's planned to use the far right lane with traffic. At least in this early plan. In modern street cars the traffic lights are coordinated so the train doesn't stop, and traffic moves out of the way.

    An interesting note is according to this map, the third gate would need to have a west entrance to benefit best from the street rail.



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  9. #54

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    Re: 3rd Gate

    I think a West Entrance and a North Entrance would be great for Park III. And a Katella Entrance to DCA - bringing you in with Carsland to your left and Tower of Terror to your right.

    Then, a pedestrian overpass from DCA to ParK III, or you could walk through Garden Walk and over to the Main Entrance Plaza.

  10. #55

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    Re: 3rd Gate

    There should be a Third Gate, but in the next 10 years. They have to finish Hollwood Land and fix Tomorrowland
    The new Star Wars plot summery:

    Episode 7: Luke discovers that Darth Vader is not his father, and goes on a search for his real father

    Episode 8: Darth Vader is resurrected and goes on Jerry Springer, claiming he is Luke and Leia's father

    Episode 9: Princes Leia is not Luke's sister, making him furious (we all know why...).

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    Re: 3rd Gate

    Interesting sometimes to look back at old articles on the subject:

    You look Marvel-ous...


    One other stop on the recent Iger and Staggs tours was the sprawling Toy Story Parking Lot down near the Anaheim Convention Center, and the adjacent land Disney owns but has not yet developed. Bob Iger has made public comments about his desire to get the Marvel characters “into the parks”, but the restrictive legal agreement with Universal over the Marvel characters means the Florida parks are off the table for Marvel. But Anaheim is definitely in play, and Bob is convinced the Marvel franchise is too big for just a single ride or even a small land in an existing park.

    It’s no coincidence then that WDI has mocked up a detailed model of an entirely new theme park based solely on Marvel characters and stories, featuring mainly thrill rides and energetic shows aimed at teens and adults. And WDI, always looking for their next big gig, conveniently used the roughly 100 acres available to Disney on and around the Toy Story Parking Lot as their exact footprint for this new park model. The Marvel park could also be slotted in as a second park at either the Hong Kong or Shanghai resorts sometime in the next decade (or later), but the third park expansion land in Anaheim is the location where this concept would likely first appear.
    Before anyone gets excited though, there are several things that must come before the Marvel park gets the green light. The first is at least a year or two of solid performance at DCA, with financial numbers that prove the park is now drawing new customers all on its own, instead of just acting as a temporary safety valve when Disneyland gets too crowded.

    The second thing that must happen is that Disney and the city of Anaheim have to come up with a comprehensive parking and transportation plan to get people into and out of the Resort District more smoothly. TDA has been able to barely keep their head above water most days when it comes to parking. But the current system is stretched to its limit and made up of stopgap measures, fancy footwork by the operations teams who often squeeze 25,000 or more cars per day into 18,000 spaces, and fraying goodwill with the city of Anaheim.

    Bon Voyage? Are the Subs history? A Disneyland Update, Al Lutz at MiceAge.com

    The last thing that needs to slot into place before the third park gets underway is an expansion of Disney owned hotel rooms in Anaheim, with more DVC units attached to any new development. We’ve told you in the past about the solid proposals to build a new hotel and arrival complex in the East Esplanade shuttle bus loading area, as well as a fourth DVC tower at the Disneyland Hotel slotted for the vacant land just west of the ESPNZone. But again, TDA and Burbank will be looking at the numbers coming out of DCA through the rest of this year before either of those plans gets the green light.

  12. #57

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    Re: 3rd Gate

    I really don't understand why anyone would doubt that a third gate will be built at the Toy Story lot. This isn't just some rumor, this has been in the DLR Specific Plan, a legal document, for about 20 years, since early planning was started for Westcot. I have a copy of the draft Specific Plan and Environmental Impact report which were published in May of 1993. The only significant changes since then are that Garden Walk was built on land that had earlier been planned to be zoned for parking but Disney didn't end up buying that property. However, now Disney has additional land north of Pumbaa which will allow for an offset of that loss. Anyway, California Adventurer is right, it's not a question of if it will happen, it's simply a matter of time.

    In regard to the entrance, my bet is on a single point of entry at the North. They'll likely have a Disney hotel or two adjacent to Garden Walk and probably another adjacent to the park along Katella basically in the current eastern part of the cast lot. My bet is that they'll have bought Garden Walk by then as well. So it would make the most sense to have the entrance on the side closest to the hotels and improved shopping district.

    I don't think it's at all necessary to have an entry over near the Convention Center. It's a kind of ugly area that's not ever going to be under Disney's control and its not that far to walk. They'll probably add a path that from the new streetcar stop crosses over Harbor, cuts behind the existing non-Disney hotels along Harbor and Katella and then enters into the new entry plaza. That way people won't have to walk along the streets and have a slightly shorter walk.
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  13. #58

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    Re: 3rd Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by eicarr View Post
    After cars land I think they should just expand the 2 parks first. The two parks are so convenient. With all the attractions its like having 3-4 WDW parks crammed together. If they fix TL, expand the area behind frontierland(next to toontown), and add more to DCA's Hollywood Studios, Cars Land unused back left corner, paradise pier, and wilderness trail.... that to me is a 3rd park without all the walking (or horrid shuttles). They just need to add more hotels and parking.

    I have heard the same thing before from many people, that they should expand or the first two parks before they build a third gate but from some conversations that i have heard from people within the company that is not the ideal thing to do.

    Their goal for the last ten years has been to help stabalize the resorts attendance by increasing DCA's gate clicks and help eleviate some of Disneylands gridlock.

    They know that there are still areas of both parks that need help and do have some kind of plans for those areas but they do not see it necessary or wise to completely expand those parks.

    Why you might ask, well both Disneyland and DCA have limited space and are parks that will be around for many more years to come. If they concentrate on completely building out and expanding those two parks there will be a time that they can do no more unless they start removing attractions or rebuilding areas. All amusement/theme parks need to keep adding something to keep people interested.

    When it comes to Disneyland it becomes a bit more of an issue becuase of its tight layout and fan following.

    So the idea would be to balance out DCA's new found fame by adding attraction in some of the Dead spaces, like the Hollywood Backlot, while increasing capacity.


    Once they feel that DCA can maintain its attendance then a third gate would be built with the knowledge that a third gate would pull some attendance away from both first gates to help spread out crowds even more.

    after a few years of the third gate opening then they could alternate new additions from gate to gate keeping all parks attendance leveled by using some of the valuable remaining land and or adding new entertainment. They know that this will eventually happen to Disneyland as its land is used up and the reason lots of attention has been added in improvement to existing attractions and shows
    Last edited by Baloo; 04-12-2013 at 12:04 PM. Reason: fixed some typos

  14. #59

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    Re: 3rd Gate

    This is always an interesting topic with plenty of great opinions shared.

    For me, lets go Field of Dreams on this thing. Build it and I will come over there.

    My take on this is because if demand, it will be built. However it will never be as fast as we, the Disney public want.

    In my opinion, they will have to lay the infrastructure first. That is the un-sexy thing that doesn't get headlines and people's attention. That means roads, hotels, and other stuff will be built first. If you build something without being able to handle capacity you only made your problem worse.

    As for enteances, from what I understand Walt wanted to have one entrance. No think there were originally a few but they have been pared down to one. Having one creates a more fluid vision and captures the guests attention coming in. With that said I believe tht wherever the third park is will have one entrance and will not have a feeder back entrance from one of the other parks. Fortunately it is only a few minute walk from DLR to the toy story lot.

    Hearin of the streetcar thing, it sounds interesting but reminds me if some of the hassles we in Phoenix dealt with when our light rail was introduced. Taking up te right lane is not going to be fun. The construction will take a couple of years am drive everyone in the area nuts. However, when it is finally done most commotion will die down.

    Just a question, but where is the Pumba lot everyone refers to?

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    Re: 3rd Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    I don't think it's at all necessary to have an entry over near the Convention Center. It's a kind of ugly area that's not ever going to be under Disney's control and its not that far to walk. They'll probably add a path that from the new streetcar stop crosses over Harbor, cuts behind the existing non-Disney hotels along Harbor and Katella and then enters into the new entry plaza. That way people won't have to walk along the streets and have a slightly shorter walk.
    You may be right, and that sounds very TDA. But what harm would there be to having a second entrance near the Convention Center? The other side of the street could be redeveloped too, somehow replacing (some of) the acres of parking with some underground, or in garages behind the hotels. If memory serves, there are some upscale restaurants and a Hilton in that part of Anaheim. So why not have a "Garden Walk" entrance to the north and a "Plaza Walk" entrance to the west?

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