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  1. #151

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldDisney View Post
    LOL, nice! It only took me six years of being here to meet another one!

    And I agree obviously, this area seems pretty cool. It wouldnt have been my first choice...hell it wouldnt have been my tenth lol. But seeing what they done with the little area and all the small details and the stage shows, once again they went just above and beyound than what I expected so I think thats very cool! And yes last summer was soooo much fun! The last few years at DLR has been great personnally to me and restored my faith in the resort, especially as great as DCA 2.0 turned out I honestly can't ask for more. I was one of the people a decade ago that wasnt even going to DLR anymore, just other Disney parks or travelling other places in general when I had time or money. It just sucked! But now, easily a great place to be! I'm amazed how much I love it when I do get to go these days...minus the costs lol. Its a great time to be a Disney fan IMO!
    Yep, agreed with everything you said. I was a little stunned when I heard they would be putting this where Carnation was... I'll admit I was a little upset as well because the nostalgia factor was getting to me. When I saw the concept art, I became more open to the idea and plans. Now that it's complete, I'm quite happy with it.

    I remember my breaks from the parks. I've been going pretty often since 2010. A lot has happened in the past decade. I'd like some problems to get taken care of, but for the most part, I'm happy with everything.
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  2. #152

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    We've been getting some reports for this thread about off-topic comments about members, so merely a brief request: we welcome both sides of all issues, pro and con, especially when it comes to new additions to the park.

    However, far too many perfectly viable threads are lost when disagreeing in conversational terms about merits of an area or theme park element turns into stereotyping, bashing or making personal comments about those you disagree with on either side of the issue.

    So merely a gentle request - please keep personal snubs and generalizing about why someone you disagree with is misguided/incorrect in their opinions out of this thread lest it need to be closed, something the volunteers which make up site staff never desire to do or enjoy doing. Think about basic respect for others instead of leaping to "they think about this differently than I do and therefore are ok to mock as wrong". Casting aspersions onto others for their reasons of enjoying/not enjoying specific parts Disneyland only makes hostility rise, and doesn't benefit anyone.

    Keep it civil and keep conversing, and thank you for your consideration.
    Last edited by MickeyMaxx; 03-09-2013 at 11:08 AM.

  3. #153

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmineray View Post
    I'll say it for a third time, the good thing about PFF is you don't have to visit it. All those who oppose it, good news! You don't have to experience it.
    Even better, I don't have to go to Disneyland at all! I've had enough of Pirate Lairs and Princess Fairs. I'm out.

    This is really heartbreaking for me as I love Disneyland more than I can even begin to say and the place has had a huge effect on my life... but I see things continuing as they have been and Disneyland is turning into a place that holds less and less meaning for me. The Princess Fantasy Faire means nothing to me. It is not "Disneyland" it is simply "Disney".
    This is important to me. Disneyland is becoming less and less a unique location that feels specifically like Disneyland, it's becoming more and more generically Disney.

  4. #154

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    How is PFF only catering to one side different from the Gardens?

    PFF: Target is audience is predominately girls.

    Gardens: Target is people who need a break/swing dancers.

    Not everyone is a girl, and not everyone is a swing dancer.
    Fear of the unknown.

    They are afraid of new ideas.

    They are loaded with prejudices, not based upon any reality, but based on… if something is new, I reject it immediately because it’s frightening to me. What they do instead is just stay with the familiar.
    You know, to me, the most beautiful things in all the universe, are the most mysterious.











  5. #155

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldDisney View Post
    Yeah someone corrected me later in the thread. Yes IN THEORY I guess they could still do it, but just not swing dancing IMO. Something more akin to the area could be fun, like a dress up dance ball. In fact they could maybe do special events for the holidays with this theater now. See this is what is cool about when they revamp areas because now it gives them reasons to actually do special things with it. Who knows what they may do with the theater in the future now.
    Well, after visiting the area, i thought that they should actually have medieval dancing lessons there. They might be able to start a new tradition of having Friday evening Medieval Dancing at Fantasy Faire.

  6. #156

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post
    [COLOR=#3E3E3E]Actually, I don't have a problem with the monorail going through BVS nor do I have a problem with it winding through Fantasyland or around the Matterhorn. Likewise, I don't automatically dislike anything new nor do I think that PFF holds nothing for me. I like the architecture, I like the details, I like that the Fantasyland Theater is now vacant and can be used for a new show, I like that Disney created a nicely themed environment. I just don't like its location and feel like a more appropriate placement would be somewhere behind the castle. This coming from someone who never visited Carnation Plaza Gardens and thus feels no personal attachment to the venue, as well as someone who perfectly open to new, tasteful, well-designed and imagined changes in the park. I just don't think that an area connected directly to the Hub is a proper placement for a Fantasyland sub-land devoted to the princesses.
    Well, in actuality, the PFF area is NOT connected DIRECTLY to the hub. just as the Castle is on the opposite of the moat, PFF is on the other side of the "river" (just as Adventureland and Frontierland are) connecting the moat with the Jungle Cruise river.

    I think it's really just looking for a point to argue about when people try to attach everything that faces the street around the hub to Main Street.

  7. #157

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    How is PFF only catering to one side different from the Gardens?

    PFF: Target is audience is predominately girls.

    Gardens: Target is people who need a break/swing dancers.

    Not everyone is a girl, and not everyone is a swing dancer.
    This.

    I will say that I hate the way that people tend to gender everything these days. Girls and boys can both like all sorts of colors, movies, characters and toys. Saying something is just for one gender or the other really limits kids and puts expectations on what they are supposed to like.

    Anyway, though, with the whole "the princesses appeal to little girls and that excludes everyone else" argument, I agree with this. At the end of the day, not every attraction will appeal to everyone. Is anyone protesting a Marvel or Star Wars ride because it caters to a a very different demographic and little girls who like princesses won't like it? Or do we protest thrill rides because some people might be afraid of them? Or kiddie rides because they're not always comfortable for adults? Or do we simply accept that not every attraction, no matter how large or small it might be, is going to appeal to every single guest?

    We have plenty of things in the park that appeal more to boys, more to women, more to men, more to thrill ride enthusiasts, more to small children, more to older children...but Heaven forbid we have something that might appeal primarily to little girls who happen to like princesses. And Heaven forbid we ask little boys to give it a try, the same way we ask girls to try more stereotypically boy-oriented areas of the park.

    Why not try to bring the whole family and enjoy something new instead of excluding it from your visit because you think it's "for little girls?" Even without meeting the princesses, the pantos could appeal to everyone and so can the scenery (Ren faires certainly have both genders in attendance!).
    Last edited by Malina; 03-07-2013 at 09:26 PM.

  8. #158

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmineray View Post
    I never said anything about Star Wars not working where the Plaza Inn is. I said using that as a comparison is ridiculous because of the Plaza Inn's location, compared to CPG. Not to mention CPG was dead space. Another reason why it's incomparable to the Plaza Inn. I don't think Disney would take a perfectly good and functioning spot and totally re-theme it. CPG was a place for relaxation, swing dancing and bands/dancers.
    Ah, I see. Sorry for misinterpreting your comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmineray View Post
    I'll say it for a third time, the good thing about PFF is you don't have to visit it. All those who oppose it, good news! You don't have to experience it.
    Again, it's not like I'm that "opposed" to the experience. There are a few things that don't necessarily interest me, a few things that I wish they had done better, and a few things that I really don't like, but there are several things I want to see and I do think that this area could be a fun little sub-land. What bothers me is the location, how the land is outside of Fantasyland's gates, the bright colors of the tent being visible from the Hub, etc.--that which you cannot avoid. I don't have to visit it, but I will pass it when I am in the parks, I will see it when I am walking through the Hub, I will hear the shows going on in the tent, the bright colors will draw my attention. I can't choose to ignore this. These are the things that bother me. And again, to clarify the statements above, I wouldn't mind seeing it or noticing it if were behind the gates of Fantasyland. Being able to clearly view it from the Hub is a different story.

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    Well, in actuality, the PFF area is NOT connected DIRECTLY to the hub. just as the Castle is on the opposite of the moat, PFF is on the other side of the "river" (just as Adventureland and Frontierland are) connecting the moat with the Jungle Cruise river.

    I think it's really just looking for a point to argue about when people try to attach everything that faces the street around the hub to Main Street.
    It is branching off directly from the Hub, and from the pictures that I've seen, things like the brightly-colored tent are very much visible and attention-grabbing. This was the basic problem presented in the last thread about fair. Since this thread now lies in the Litter Box, I won't link to it, but the pictures are the first post are the basic illustration of the root of the problem. Even a review of the fair that was posted today addressed this issue:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbulb View Post
    The tranquil dining area slowly transformed into a charming Bavarian village backdrop while the Carnation Gardens stage was morphed into a gold and pink monstrosity. This, so close to the castle, really seems as if it would visually compete with the central icon of the park. What were the Imagineers thinking?
    (from: Fantasy Faire Village opens to Disneyland Passholders, Photos and Review)

    Again, I don't have a major problem with the content, but I have a problem with its location, how it clashes with its surroundings, and how it seems to contradict the very idea of the Hub being the location where portals from various lands are located. Here, Fantasyland starts outside its transition, spilling outside of its gates and grabbing attention from passersbys with its distinctively bright colors and bustling festivities. I feel like this distracts from the true genius of the Hub, a relatively understated area without any real "theme" yet a highly effective design and purpose, introducing us to the identities of each land via gateways like the castle or a wooden fort or a sign with some tropical plants while knowing exactly how much to give us and exactly how much to leave to the Guest's imagination, waiting to reveal the magic of each respective land until they cross through the portal. From what I've seen, this is not the case with PFF.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldDisney View Post
    But all said and done...its there now! I mean we can debate it for another decade (and I know these boards will lol) but the sucker opens next week so it is what it is. And I suspect the reasons it wasn't pushed back behind the castle besides probably wanting to do something that would bring people to this outdated area, they could have long term plans of some of that space in FL like the motor boat area or even the Small World mall. Its hard to say since none of us work for WDI sadly. Its just hard to know why they make the decisions they do when we only know 1 or 2 steps ahead and they could be thinking 10 steps ahead. So it was probably placed there because there was definite room and it was just enough space to do something with it. I dont know obviously, but the decision has been made and either people will really take to it OR just avoid it altogether. We will know soon I guess. Eitherway this area seems pretty cool!
    Fair enough. Though I will say, I don't want to feel the need to "avoid it all together." I want to enjoy the festivity of the area in good conscience, knowing that the sub-land enhances its surroundings and the design of the park as a whole. Unfortunately, I cannot say that I think so of PFF, even if the area itself nicely designed. Yes, it is there, it has been constructed and isn't disappearing anytime soon, and the people like myself who do not like its location will just have to "deal with it." However, I hold Disneyland to certain standards and don't want to complacently accept what I feel are violations of good theming and design. Even if it is a small and relatively inconsequential change to the rest of the park, with enough "small" and "inconsequential" changes, there begins to form a noticeable impact. That is what has many of us concerned for the future of Disneyland.

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    Well, after visiting the area, i thought that they should actually have medieval dancing lessons there. They might be able to start a new tradition of having Friday evening Medieval Dancing at Fantasy Faire.
    Alright, I have to put all problems that I have with the area aside for a brief moment--that sounds like a really neat idea!

  9. #159

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post
    Ah, I see. Sorry for misinterpreting your comment.


    Again, it's not like I'm that "opposed" to the experience. There are a few things that don't necessarily interest me, a few things that I wish they had done better, and a few things that I really don't like, but there are several things I want to see and I do think that this area could be a fun little sub-land. What bothers me is the location, how the land is outside of Fantasyland's gates, the bright colors of the tent being visible from the Hub, etc.--that which you cannot avoid. I don't have to visit it, but I will pass it when I am in the parks, I will see it when I am walking through the Hub, I will hear the shows going on in the tent, the bright colors will draw my attention. I can't choose to ignore this. These are the things that bother me. And again, to clarify the statements above, I wouldn't mind seeing it or noticing it if were behind the gates of Fantasyland. Being able to clearly view it from the Hub is a different story.
    No need to apologize, this is good discussion.

    I understand your point. From the hub, there are four, fairly obvious entrances into different lands you can walk through. PFF sort of messes up this process in a way. I would argue that corner of the park has always been like that; an awkward transition and unlike the four "realms" you're supposed to enter. Even before PFF it was odd because you could still see the red and white tent and umbrellas from the hub. That entire area has always been a little off.

    What I and a few others are trying to argue is, that area of the park (PFF) looks slightly less off, now, because it's placed next to SBC. It looks more natural. I would also argue CPG looked more odd than PFF does now. I say that because Main Street looks to end at where Coke Corner and the Plaza Inn are. Speaking for myself, I had no clue that CPG was considered Main Street until Disney announced PFF at D23 in 2011, and people were complaining about it being on Main Street. Seriously, I was quite confused. So you've got the four realms at the hub... Why would Main Street continue after the hub? It just doesn't make sense to me. You enter Main Street, walk down, get to the hub and now you choose where you want to go. Oh, but wait, Main Street is till continuing. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? It's a little weird to me that CPG was considered to be Main Street. Shouldn't it just be the hub and then the four realms?

    I have a couple of points to my argument, but the main thing I'm trying to say now is CPG looked more out of place, simply because Coke Corner and the Plaza Inn seem to be the natural and obvious endpoints for Main Street. Yes, you could see CPG from Coke Corner and the Plaza Inn, but it was still a bit of distance and behind the hub, making the continuation of Main Street a little weird and awkward. The good thing about PFF is it's placed right next to SBC. Unlike CPG and Coke Corner/Plaza Inn, PFF and SBC seem to compliment each other nicely because they are so close together, more close than CPG was to Coke Corner/Plaza Inn. There's no awkward break and gap in between the two. That's why I think PFF "flows" and works better.

    In terms of hearing things from PFF, I can hear the coyote in Thunder Mountain when I'm in certain spots in Fantasyland. One can also see pretty much all of Frontierland from New Orleans Square. Sure it can be weird sometimes, but I think the odd transitions, tight spaces, close buildings and charm are what make Disneyland, Disneyland.
    Princess of Agrabah and Queen of Never Land

  10. #160

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Looks great, a better use of space than the old theatre, now it will be used for a show, like it was built for.
    The new Star Wars plot summery:

    Episode 7: Luke discovers that Darth Vader is not his father, and goes on a search for his real father

    Episode 8: Darth Vader is resurrected and goes on Jerry Springer, claiming he is Luke and Leia's father

    Episode 9: Princes Leia is not Luke's sister, making him furious (we all know why...).

  11. #161

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaVonDrake View Post
    Even better, I don't have to go to Disneyland at all! I've had enough of Pirate Lairs and Princess Fairs. I'm out.

    This is really heartbreaking for me as I love Disneyland more than I can even begin to say and the place has had a huge effect on my life... but I see things continuing as they have been and Disneyland is turning into a place that holds less and less meaning for me. The Princess Fantasy Faire means nothing to me. It is not "Disneyland" it is simply "Disney".
    This is important to me. Disneyland is becoming less and less a unique location that feels specifically like Disneyland, it's becoming more and more generically Disney.
    Olivia, it may be small comfort, but rest assured you're not the only one who feels this way.

    For what it's worth, if you can get some older books on Disneyland, like Nickel Tour or Disneyland, Inside Story, or the E Ticket magazines, you will be able to relive Disneyland in its glory years. There are also some great websites and blogs out there that feature vintage photos of the park. You can get lost in those photos for hours.

    What the so-called "imagineers" and upper management have done in recent years to what was a cultural icon is nothing short of travesty.

  12. #162

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Yep. I think my Disneyland days will be limited to whenever out of state friends and relatives come for a visit. And what's sad is that even these people don't go as much as they used to. The cost to get in is so high that they now opt for less expensive attractions such as USH or Knotts or the beach.

  13. #163

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldDisney View Post
    I'm sure it was! And one time Matterhorn was labled in TL! Now its FL. Where TLM in DCA sits now use to be labled in Golden State. Now its part of PP. They change this stuff all the time on a whim or whatever fits their theming zones. Its artificial lines on a theme park map, they can change what they want. Of course you know that, the point is PFF just makes MORE sense to be next to the castle then does a contempoary stage area.

    I just dont know how you can look at the castle and actually suggest something from MS belongs there?? Its odd to me. But, and I will say this again, it only makes sense because its been there forever! The same reason why its jarring for people to see the monorail go through BVS as a 'problem' but NO problem seeing the same monorail cross into FL and around a mountain is because they lived with it all their lives. Its just natural even though its just as much out of place as the newer stuff.

    And in 20 years time, no one is going to be able to imagine what it was like NOT to have PFF next to the castle. Thats the power of age and nostalgia kicking in!
    Rose-tinted glasses are indeed a powerful device.

    Nostalgia is a powerful thing, just think of all the times you've heard "Back in the good ol days". Its good to have memories of what you enjoy, but they are always eventually just memories, for things inevitably change for good or for bad
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  14. #164

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Rose-tinted glasses are indeed a powerful device.

    Nostalgia is a powerful thing, just think of all the times you've heard "Back in the good ol days". Its good to have memories of what you enjoy, but they are always eventually just memories, for things inevitably change for good or for bad
    Am I the only one who doesn't see what the problem is?? DL is going to change- period. New rides, old ones sometimes go away- things change. It is what it is. If DL was as it was even 20-30 years ago it would be considered old- and maybe people would lose interest because it hadn't changed with the times to some extent.

    I'm no fan of the gift shops outside every ride exit (or so it seems) but DL is still magical- it's still wonderful- it's still a place that rouses deep emotions and memories and wonderment.

    I guess i don't get why people are so unhappy and don't want to go anymore- because somehow it isn't DL the way THEY want it to be?

    How is Disneyland NOT Disney....or vice versa. I don't even know what that meant (no Wren- you didn't say it )

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Nephythys View Post
    DL is going to change- period.
    It's not change that people are having an issue with. It's what was being replaced, what it was being replaced with, and where that new thing is/should be located. Of course all of this has been addressed ad nauseum.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

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