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  1. #166

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    It's not change that people are having an issue with. It's what was being replaced, what it was being replaced with, and where that new thing is/should be located. Of course all of this has been addressed ad nauseum.
    I'm sorry that is the very definition of change. Something went away- something else moved in. People aren't happy.

    I just don't get the pathos over it- the claims of DL not being DL anymore. Not wanting to go.

    I just don't understand that thought process but....that's fine.
    Last edited by Nephythys; 03-08-2013 at 01:08 PM.

  2. #167

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Nephythys View Post
    I'm sorry that is the very definition of change. Something went away- something else moved in.
    And it is the how, where, and what that people have a problem with. Not the simple fact that something was changed. There is a difference - a big one.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  3. #168

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    Well, in actuality, the PFF area is NOT connected DIRECTLY to the hub. just as the Castle is on the opposite of the moat, PFF is on the other side of the "river" (just as Adventureland and Frontierland are) connecting the moat with the Jungle Cruise river.

    I think it's really just looking for a point to argue about when people try to attach everything that faces the street around the hub to Main Street.
    That's right, making everything close to the hub part of Main Street would mean removing the fort entrance to Frontierland, taking out Snow White's wishing well, and other stuff. I think that once you get north of Plaza Inn/Jolly Holiday, you have the transition to different land, and the middle of the hub has the Walt statue and plants. Yes, the trolley goes near the castle, but this area has always had transitions, Tomorrowland is within spitting distance of the Plaza Inn, I don't anybody dislikes the visual "intrusion" of the People Mover track into the Plaza Inn as it has always been that way.

    PFF makes sense and soon folks will feel that its always been there.

    Would it really be a perfect world where you enter the hub and you can't see any of the other lands? Can't you see the Mark Twain go by from the right angle at the hub? The alternative is to make a green maze so that folks only see plants. I think Walt wanted the hub to be a pictorial menu, you see the various lands and decide where to go, the ultimate choose your own adventure.

  4. #169

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    It's not change that people are having an issue with. It's what was being replaced, what it was being replaced with, and where that new thing is/should be located. Of course all of this has been addressed ad nauseum.
    No, its exactly that. All other arguments aside, for and against, the main issue always has been 'change', and whatever personal reasoning you have for or against that change.

    Look I loved my NES back in the day, but for the most part, doesnt hold a candle to games these days. But there are those that would argue "It was so much better back then, games are terrible these days' which is a perfectly acceptable opinion as well

    But video games had to evolve, could you imagine if we still had 8 bit games as the norm? There are always those who react overly hostile to any change, just as there are always those who bend over backwards for any change no matter how good/bad it is.

    Dont like it, by all means dont go to the new land, cancel your AP in protest, dont buy tickets for the park anymore; thats your choice. But no one on here speaks for everyone, and no one here is 'right' or 'wrong'
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
    -Dr. Strange

  5. #170

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Dont like it, by all means dont go to the new land, cancel your AP in protest, dont buy tickets for the park anymore; thats your choice. But no one on here speaks for everyone, and no one here is 'right' or 'wrong'
    It all comes down to taste, though CPG was never an "attraction" in my mind, at least not since they had professional paid entertainers there, and even when it did, it wasn't 7 days a week. It was just a ramada type construction with a small stage and enough room for swing dancing, which was a craze at one point. I can see folks getting sentimental (I sure remember times when I used it as a pit stop/rest area for a quick break), but that doesn't meant that folks can't enjoy what is there as well, you can be both mildly sad and excited by the new stuff that was put in.

    Now, as I see it, you can get a drink or a quick bite (though the pricess are outrageous), and soak up the "festival atmosphere" . . . all my memories of CPG are of a big empty space, so for me its an overall plus.

    I was upset when Country Bear Jamboree closed, and it seemed so "wrong", though obviously others probably have a different opinion.

  6. #171

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    CBJ is a perfect example

    I hate Winnie The Pooh, my GF loves it, she hated CBJ. People have different tastes, but that ride by no means 'destroyed' anything

    Hyperbole to the max
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  7. #172

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    And it is the how, where, and what that people have a problem with. Not the simple fact that something was changed. There is a difference - a big one.
    Disneyland Resort sometimes gets close to 100,000 visitors a day, or more, and there are, what? 800,000 APers? With every change, there are going to be unhappy campers. Even when they took out Superstar Limo there were probably upset fans. Everything can be debated, but in the end, Disneyland aims to please the most guests, most of the time.

    CPS didn't please most guests as the place was a ghost town that looked cheap (to my eyes, including the less-than-detailed Frontierland facade), and it didn't please/entertain guests around the clock as it was often practically deserted.

    So, we can debate how removing CPG was a travesty, but I think most folks give it high ratings for theme and quality.

    I guessing that looking at a sample of the average guests to Disneland, probably around 90%, (likely more), will rate PFF as a positive or "no change."

  8. #173

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaVonDrake View Post
    Even better, I don't have to go to Disneyland at all! I've had enough of Pirate Lairs and Princess Fairs. I'm out.

    This is really heartbreaking for me as I love Disneyland more than I can even begin to say and the place has had a huge effect on my life... but I see things continuing as they have been and Disneyland is turning into a place that holds less and less meaning for me. The Princess Fantasy Faire means nothing to me. It is not "Disneyland" it is simply "Disney".
    This is important to me. Disneyland is becoming less and less a unique location that feels specifically like Disneyland, it's becoming more and more generically Disney.
    Olivia,

    You are certainly not the only one who feels this way. The MBA's and bean counters have Kidnapped the true "Magic" of Walt Disney and Disneyland Park, and replaced it with generic trinkets, expensive snacks and Girl centric "Princess" meet and greets.
    The boys can be Pirates the Girls can be Princess's. Typical decisions made by corporate experts who know nothing about show, or real creativity. I swear to you, if I were in charge of Disney Corp. I would fire at least 98% of Management across all divisions. Just wait and see what they will do to the Star Wars brand. This is the Company that is forcing Pixar into making Toy Story 4. Sad, sad, sad state of affairs at DisneyCo.

    My families Red Line in the sand is the Enchanted Tiki Room, Once that attraction is shuttered, we will never spend one more dime at any Disney park or attraction. I will take my thousands of dollars we spend each year elsewhere.

  9. #174

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by CAspace View Post
    Olivia,

    You are certainly not the only one who feels this way. The MBA's and bean counters have Kidnapped the true "Magic" of Walt Disney and Disneyland Park, and replaced it with generic trinkets, expensive snacks and Girl centric "Princess" meet and greets.
    The boys can be Pirates the Girls can be Princess's. Typical decisions made by corporate experts who know nothing about show, or real creativity. I swear to you, if I were in charge of Disney Corp. I would fire at least 98% of Management across all divisions. Just wait and see what they will do to the Star Wars brand. This is the Company that is forcing Pixar into making Toy Story 4. Sad, sad, sad state of affairs at DisneyCo.

    My families Red Line in the sand is the Enchanted Tiki Room, Once that attraction is shuttered, we will never spend one more dime at any Disney park or attraction. I will take my thousands of dollars we spend each year elsewhere.
    Your arguments merely appear well thought out and reasoned, but we know the truth is you just don't like change.

  10. #175

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Oh for goodness sake-

  11. #176

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Your arguments merely appear well thought out and reasoned, but we know the truth is you just don't like change.
    I see sarcasm is only accepted in threads where they're in your favor.

    Doesn't appear well thought out and reasoned to me, looks a bit conspracy theory-ish

    Stay on topic Steve, why dont you?
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  12. #177

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Stay on topic Steve, why dont you?
    Oh, but I am!

    No, its exactly that . All other arguments aside, for and against, the main issue always has been 'change'

  13. #178

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Oh, but I am!
    You're changing the subject! I dont like that because its different and scares me
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
    -Dr. Strange

  14. #179

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    CBJ is a perfect example

    I hate Winnie The Pooh, my GF loves it, she hated CBJ. People have different tastes, but that ride by no means 'destroyed' anything

    Hyperbole to the max

    I guess that the fact that guests got upset over CBJ's removal was a testament to the skill and creativity that went into creating the attraction in the first place. I have a lot of good memories at CBJ, and it would be nice to stroll down Bear Country and see the show again, but I realize that stuff changes. I think it is the same thing with folks who miss CPG, it was the memories that can't be enhanced by visiting the same place as that place has been totally changed.

    But the good thing is that a lot more good memories will be had for families with little kids, and when they take their kids to PFF (I don't doubt it will be around in 15-20 years), they can relive those memories. Thousands of paying guests, both kids and adults, will be making wonderful memories of their own at PFF . . . obviously not a lot folks were making new memories at CPG when compared to the foot traffic PFF will get, I'm thinking ten times as many guests.

    Disneyland isn't a democracy, but they do make decisions which benefit the largest number of guests to stay popular as a theme park, in that regards, I think that building PFF was a very fair decision to make that respects guests the most.

  15. #180

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Your arguments merely appear well thought out and reasoned, but we know the truth is you just don't like change.
    I forgot to mention my other line in the sand, The replacement of Steam Engines with the HKDL Diesel engines.
    When they remove Steam Trains from Disneyland or Touch Tiki Room, We are out.

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