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  1. #181

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by CAspace View Post
    I forgot to mention my other line in the sand, The replacement of Steam Engines with the HKDL Diesel engines.
    When they remove Steam Trains from Disneyland or Touch Tiki Room, We are out.
    To be honest, with California's crazy air standards, I'm surprised all vehicles arent electric in the parks
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  2. #182

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    what was a cultural icon

    That may very well be true and I know you and others passionately feel that way but first and foremost it is an open and running business...not a historical landmark. It must remain relevant to today's theme park consumers.

    I have no interest whatsoever in Princess stuff but I know there are tons of folks that do, so give them a seldom used area that has been well constructed and looks great. Things change.

  3. #183

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by CAspace View Post
    Olivia,
    I swear to you, if I were in charge of Disney Corp. I would fire at least 98% of Management across all divisions.
    Seriously, what a terrible thing to say.

    If you were to be in charge I would probably NEVER go to Disneyland again. The reason why I keep on renewing is because of changes!

    That old carnitaton plaza garden area was a Ghostown 6 days per week! except during school performances. This new area is 1000 times way better than before. Great job Disney.
    Last edited by SoCalbma; 03-08-2013 at 03:47 PM.
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  4. #184

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmineray View Post
    Yep, agreed with everything you said. I was a little stunned when I heard they would be putting this where Carnation was... I'll admit I was a little upset as well because the nostalgia factor was getting to me. When I saw the concept art, I became more open to the idea and plans. Now that it's complete, I'm quite happy with it.

    I remember my breaks from the parks. I've been going pretty often since 2010. A lot has happened in the past decade. I'd like some problems to get taken care of, but for the most part, I'm happy with everything.
    Yeah same here! I was just as confused as everyone else here when I saw where PFF was going and wasnt very happy about it. But yeah, the more I learned about it and, wait for it, just got use to the idea, the less of an issue it was. And reading the reviews thus far, it sounds like even the people that had its doubts about it is starting to appreciate it, even with their concerns still in tact.

    But yes, I TRULY love the direction DLR has gone in the last few years. People can disagree for sure, but for ME its just immensensly improved and they added so much in the last few years that I really liked its really hard to not love it and I been going for over 30 years and been to every resort multiple times. DLR is still not the best resort IMO, that will be TDR without a doubt for me, but its come around a lot in the last decade or so, thats for sure!

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post
    Fair enough. Though I will say, I don't want to feel the need to "avoid it all together." I want to enjoy the festivity of the area in good conscience, knowing that the sub-land enhances its surroundings and the design of the park as a whole. Unfortunately, I cannot say that I think so of PFF, even if the area itself nicely designed. Yes, it is there, it has been constructed and isn't disappearing anytime soon, and the people like myself who do not like its location will just have to "deal with it." However, I hold Disneyland to certain standards and don't want to complacently accept what I feel are violations of good theming and design. Even if it is a small and relatively inconsequential change to the rest of the park, with enough "small" and "inconsequential" changes, there begins to form a noticeable impact. That is what has many of us concerned for the future of Disneyland.


    Alright, I have to put all problems that I have with the area aside for a brief moment--that sounds like a really neat idea!
    And I can't really argue against that! Yeah if thats your beef, its your beef! ALL I will say is that people who had the same concerns as you have who has now been there and based on their reviews are coming around to the idea. Thats a big positive! I think since you already like the idea but just not the location (which I say most of us was probably in that camp as well), I think in time you will simply adapt to it...or not lol. But I think from what I been reading once you go there and get a real feel for it, you may change your mind on it. But in time, honestly, people do adapt to this stuff. We've only know FL behind the castle not just here at DL but every MK around the world. Thats just how it is darn it lol. Of course if it was built like that from day one NO ONE would remotely question it...no one! But it wasnt and so its just 'odd' to have. To me, its MORE odd to have a contempoary stage next to the castle and makes ZERO sense to be there. I litterally laugh listening to how a contempoary stage makes sense standing next to a fairy tale castle based in Europe. THAT right there tells you all you need to know abut the power of nostalgia and age to the point people have convinced themselves that makes sense to stay vs what is there now. Its really odd to me, regardless of your feelings for PFF. That outdated stage area was one of the most out of theme areas of the park. I'm just glad Disney has made it more nice even if I just spend a few mins there or walk through it.

    And of course I generally agree that people have a concern in terms of the design of the park. I have a concern for ALL the parks personnally and some will always be better than others. And I seen Disney at its best and worst. I know what it can do when its budget can go as far as their imaginations with Tokyo Disneysea being the shining example. Hands down its the best park Disney has ever built, ever IMO! And then I seen the dark side of Disney when they cut corners, limited inspiration and really just trying to get people in the doors, ala DCA 1.0, WDSP and HKDL! Just horrible, horrible parks at opening. DCA has improved immensely now where I can call it a Disney park finally lol. The other two are more lackluster but they are improving at least and getting original attractions now. So I the sea change is happening.

    As for DLR, I am truly happy where it is now vs a decade ago. It was so bad, I just spent all my time doing TDR for years (I lived in Asia, not rich lol). My point is there was no reason to even see it. Didnt miss it, didnt care! NOW, its my second favorite resort behind TDR and nearly equal as things improve. Thats a great sign for me at least. I really love it now!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Olivia, it may be small comfort, but rest assured you're not the only one who feels this way.

    For what it's worth, if you can get some older books on Disneyland, like Nickel Tour or Disneyland, Inside Story, or the E Ticket magazines, you will be able to relive Disneyland in its glory years. There are also some great websites and blogs out there that feature vintage photos of the park. You can get lost in those photos for hours.

    What the so-called "imagineers" and upper management have done in recent years to what was a cultural icon is nothing short of travesty.
    Well thats fine to have that opinion and if you truly feel that way, hey, its how you feel right? I dont know, but for ME, I think if people truly feel this way then there are other theme parks or more importantly, other interest in the world people can focus on, come back to Disney in a few years and may fall in love with it all over again! There is ZERO wrong with taking a break from the place if you think its just lost its magic or soul. When I use to read these boards more, sometimes it just sounded like people were getting so cynical not just because of the changes they percieve as negative, but because they were going ALL the time lol. I think if people take a step back, find other interest and come back they may fall in love with it again.

    But if its just more of a thing you truly hate the direction the parks are going, thats perfectly valid but maybe it just mean you have to give up the thing you love the most if you really dont think its what it was when you first discovered it. Things change, people change it happens!

    I gave up on it (well DLR) for years! I thought it was going to suck forever lol. Now I love it again as I did as a teenager. BUT I love the changes, not necessarily PFF, but what they did with DCA, the upkeep at DL and its newer entertainment and the ride updates at least. Not everyone is going to agree on this stuff. Its a theme park and its all subjective at the end of the day. If you feel Disney has lots its way, that perfectly valid.

  5. #185

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalbma View Post
    Seriously, what a terrible thing to say.

    If you were to be in charge I would probably NEVER go to Disneyland again. The reason why I keep on renewing is because of changes!

    That old carnitaton plaza garden area was a Ghostown 6 days per week! except during school performances. This new area is 1000 times way better than before. Great job Disney.
    Bingo!

    CPG was just a dump! I can understand if they dont like PFF but I have no idea how people can say that should stay? These are the kind of improvements I expect Disney to do! Besides the few dozen of swing dancers, who has another area to do it, this new area is a plus on every level. It beautifies a once dead area for one, it gives a core Disney audience something they truly love (even though I will NEVER get it personnally lol) and its an added value for peoples dollars. With the shows, they now have a little more extra entertainment to add to their day if they choose. CPG brought zero to the table in all these regards. I still have no idea what the argument is lol.

    OR, they can avoid the place altogether....which guess what 99% of people been doing for decades already. No offense people but you cant kowtow to the minority out there. And yes, I'm with you, I go to these parks because I want change and if its possible, often!

  6. #186

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    For what it's worth, if you can get some older books on Disneyland, like Nickel Tour or Disneyland, Inside Story, or the E Ticket magazines, you will be able to relive Disneyland in its glory years. There are also some great websites and blogs out there that feature vintage photos of the park. You can get lost in those photos for hours.
    Oh I'm well aware, I've been a part of the online Disneyland community for quite some time now (going back to the A.D.D. days). I actually maintain such a blog myself... I'd include a link, but I assume it's against the rules here.

  7. #187

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortgageman View Post
    That may very well be true and I know you and others passionately feel that way but first and foremost it is an open and running business...not a historical landmark.
    It should have been deemed so long ago.

    I'm still amazed at the number of books--some of them graduate level--not only about Disneyland, but those that reference it as well. You'll never see that with any other theme park.

    Well, I guess the place was a theme park. I think we've officially crossed the line to amusement park. To thunderous applause.

  8. #188

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    It should have been deemed so long ago.

    I'm still amazed at the number of books--some of them graduate level--not only about Disneyland, but those that reference it as well. You'll never see that with any other theme park.

    Well, I guess the place was a theme park. I think we've officially crossed the line to amusement park. To thunderous applause.
    Unless your name is Walter Elias Disney, you don't get to make that call 'officially'
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  9. #189

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    It should have been deemed so long ago.

    I'm still amazed at the number of books--some of them graduate level--not only about Disneyland, but those that reference it as well. You'll never see that with any other theme park.

    Well, I guess the place was a theme park. I think we've officially crossed the line to amusement park. To thunderous applause.
    I find your post ridiculous. Disneyland can't be both a money-maker and a national and historical landmark? You speak as if everything at Disneyland was free at one point, including admission, food and other things. You can't deny that Disneyland is a theme park, because that's exactly what it is; a theme park that happens to be a national and historical landmark. Calling it an amusement park is quite absurd.

    It sounds and looks like some of you want Disneyland as it was back when Walt Disney was still alive, roaming around the park. Sorry folks, but those days are over and they aren't coming back. Things have changed, including the company and the times. I'm not happy with the company's corporate greed either, and they can make me very upset sometimes. At the same time, I realize corporate greed exists pretty much everywhere, now. This isn't the fifties and sixties. Things have changed at Disneyland... To the point where we can officially call it an amusement park? Absurdity to the core.
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  10. #190

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post

    Well, I guess the place was a theme park. I think we've officially crossed the line to amusement park. To thunderous applause.
    Geez.

    What did Disney ever do to you to be so pessimistic about everything in the park? The complaining is getting a bit old, and I suspect that a lot of folks on these boards aren't interested in hearing the same old, "They changed the style of cups and they're flushing Disney history down the toilet as the place is now officially a dump."

    Could it be that when you were younger and more optimistic you had a healthier view of things, including the park?

    Princess Fantasy Faire has theming, a lot of it, and outshines CPG in that regard.

    I'd also be interested to know what "graduate level" books there are on Disneyland.

  11. #191

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    It should have been deemed so long ago.

    I'm still amazed at the number of books--some of them graduate level--not only about Disneyland, but those that reference it as well. You'll never see that with any other theme park.

    Well, I guess the place was a theme park. I think we've officially crossed the line to amusement park. To thunderous applause.
    I wasn't going to get involved with the whole argument, but the part I've bolded... I really can't see how the new Fantasy Faire completely destroys the themeing of the whole park and turns Disneyland into any old amusement park. I'm honestly lost for words how someone could think that. The Fantasy Faire has much much much more themeing than the Carnation Plaza Gardens ever had.

  12. #192

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmineray View Post
    I find your post ridiculous.

    . . .


    It sounds and looks like some of you want Disneyland as it was back when Walt Disney was still alive, roaming around the park. Sorry folks, but those days are over and they aren't coming back. Things have changed, including the company and the times. I'm not happy with the company's corporate greed either, and they can make me very upset sometimes. At the same time, I realize corporate greed exists pretty much everywhere, now. This isn't the fifties and sixties.
    Corporate greed existed in the 1950's too, the money men were an obstacle in Walt's way. When founders pass away, sell their company, new owners treat things differently, but nonetheless, Disney is trying to right the ship and do things the "Disney way", at least some of the time.

    The disgruntled won't stop posting because it is one of their primary hobbies, trashing new stuff Disney does and reminding people how great things were back in the day.

    If TDA/Burbank is reading this thread, they must get a lot of laughs out of it. APers complaining about PFF (a great offering for families with little kids and finally the princess meet and greet that girls deserve) is being trashed by a relatively small number of ostensibly diehard fans of the old CPG which was probably the deadest area of the park . . . and was prime real estate near the castle. This just shows them that some "fans" can complain about anything and everything just to cause a big stink . . . even when a change is a quality attraction that pleases more guests.

  13. #193

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by ssaamm View Post
    I wasn't going to get involved with the whole argument, but the part I've bolded... I really can't see how the new Fantasy Faire completely destroys the themeing of the whole park and turns Disneyland into any old amusement park. I'm honestly lost for words how someone could think that. The Fantasy Faire has much much much more themeing than the Carnation Plaza Gardens ever had.
    It is unclear if Steve DeGaetano danced at CPG on a regular basis, even if he visited this empty area of the park on a regular basis, I'm guessing no as he frequently talks about not visiting Disneyland in the future. What is clear is that he has been very upset with changes in the park over the years and feels that Disneyland isn't a shell of its former self.

    Well . . . OK, even when 1955 Disneyland opened there were still vacationeers/families who preferred Hawaii and Vegas.

    I would suggest just ignoring his comments as he seems to want a reaction. If you're a true blue fan of Disney, you don't want to hear just constant meaningless dribble trashing the parks . . . when it makes *no sense* then it is time to realize that the motivation is to attack, not to be objective, or even truthful with your own appraisal, but just to use every bit of news as a way to attack Disney, and fans of Disney on this site.

  14. #194

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldDisney View Post
    CPG was just a dump!
    A dump? Really? Really?

  15. #195

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Geez.

    What did Disney ever do to you to be so pessimistic about everything in the park? The complaining is getting a bit old, and I suspect that a lot of folks on these boards aren't interested in hearing the same old, "They changed the style of cups and they're flushing Disney history down the toilet as the place is now officially a dump."

    Could it be that when you were younger and more optimistic you had a healthier view of things, including the park?

    Princess Fantasy Faire has theming, a lot of it, and outshines CPG in that regard.

    I'd also be interested to know what "graduate level" books there are on Disneyland.
    I think others just truly become cynical of where the parks are going because in their eyes they see Disney is just doing things strictly for money (like PFF) and less about the experience itself and thats FINE to have that opinion! Those feelings are 100% vaild. But it cant be THAT bad if you are still discussing it hours upon hours a day. There still must be more postitives about the park instead of just talking about Walt Disney and stuff that happened 50 years ago when 90% of us here wasnt even born at the time. But I do understand what they are saying (and have felt that way at times to an extent in the past) and its their right to feel that way, I just disagree!

    But to keep it ON topic lol, besides the location issue, there isnt really much of an argument against this area. For one, it DOES do everything we think of when it comes to Disney, so I dont know why people have an issue with it? If its not your thing, its not your thing. Do people honestly think everyone loves Indiana Jones ride? No, of course not, but obviously enough do so thats all that matters and its very popular. But I'm sure just as many people who ride and loves it, just as many people avoid it like the plaque because its not their thing. Again, not everything in the park has to aim at every age and demographic.

    And PFF takes NOTHING away from anybody. Its only a plus. And no I don't count the swing dancers because A. Its not a true Disney activity anyway and B. We are talking a group that is not even big enough to fill a quarter of the Magic Eye theater. You can't base decisions around that tiny margin of people who uses a space litterally a few hours one night a week. PFF, as much as most of us is not in love with it, is still a big plus for the park. They concentrated an area that will give the little ones (and bigger little ones lol) a place to see their favorite princesses. The rest of us get a nice area to at least admire and take a few pics here and there. Nothing (thats important) got removed for it. There are more positives and end of the day almost no negatives to have it because no one is losing anything for it.

    And if you want to avoid it, you can, just like you avoid the other stuff you dont like and concentrate on the things you DO like. Meanwhile others get a nice area. Seems to work out for most.
    Last edited by WorldDisney; 03-08-2013 at 06:33 PM.

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