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  1. #256

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    These aren't outdated gender roles. Girls still love the Princesses, they're just giving them a place to meet them. If I remember correctly, The did teach the boys how to present themselves as gentleman as well, when the Faire was in the theatre. Also they sold shields and swords. I'm sorry, but at the end of the day, most boys aren't gonna go for the Princess stuff. It's just a fact. It's not reinforcement, it's recognition.

  2. #257

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaVonDrake View Post
    I'd say it's quite sad that Disney is so heavily reinforcing these outdated gender roles for marketing purposes. In the past Disneyland didn't have attractions that were specifically aimed at a male or female audience. Disneyland was for everyone.
    I'd say Davy Crockett was, and still is, aimed for boys. Davy Crockett's been around since opening day.
    Princess of Agrabah and Queen of Never Land

  3. #258

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by TwilitWings View Post
    Isn't insisting that an area themed to princesses = "girl's only" enforcing outdated gender roles more than anything though? Why is it okay for a girl to look up to male figures, but a boy can't see a role model in girl figures? Why can't a boy dream of being as determined or patient or kind as any of the princesses?
    I have a feeling that both little boys and girls will like the live entertainment. And some very little boys will like meeting the princesses in that it is something new, but as boys approach puberty, there is often an obsession with warfare/guns, probably due to evolution as the boys who were able to help fight off invaders with their fathers lived to pass on their genes. Girls are often drawn to baby dolls, probably because the girls who helped their mothers keep the little ones alive/babysitted them, their family survived to pass on their genes.

    Trust me, when you've seen boys and girls grow-up, you notice differences that seem to sprout out of nothingness, I'm no sociologist but I don't think Disney is enforcing bad stereotypes per se, but just following what kids want. I do think that the independent princesses like Merida and Belle are good for girls' self-esteem, so I don't think they are enforcing "negative" gender roles, just sort of what girls have always been interested in.

    I'm a guy and I like the princesses who can kick booty, like Merida, who isn't very popular with our five year old, who likes the more "traditional" princesses. Go figure, I'm sure other five year old girls have all different types of tastes.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 03-09-2013 at 05:17 PM.

  4. #259

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by TwilitWings View Post
    Isn't insisting that an area themed to princesses = "girl's only" enforcing outdated gender roles more than anything though? Why is it okay for a girl to look up to male figures, but a boy can't see a role model in girl figures? Why can't a boy dream of being as determined or patient or kind as any of the princesses?
    I don't know, why don't you ask Disney?
    Check out Disney Store | Official Site for Disney Merchandise ... hover over the words "GIRLS" and "BOYS" in the menu and tell me what you see.

  5. #260

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by TwilitWings View Post
    Isn't insisting that an area themed to princesses = "girl's only" enforcing outdated gender roles more than anything though? Why is it okay for a girl to look up to male figures, but a boy can't see a role model in girl figures? Why can't a boy dream of being as determined or patient or kind as any of the princesses?
    Bingo.

    There's absolutely nothing on the PFF that says that boys are not allowed. There are CMs - male and female - dressed up in costume there, and even the BBB has a boys' makeover option. Just like the pirates makeup is available freely to both boys and girls.

    There have been a lot of studies that girls are able to accept and idolize both male and female role models/authors/etc. while boys have trouble with that and tend to lean only on male role models. A girl who loves the princesses might very well have a lightsaber at home (I know I did, as a kid) but you're unlikely to find as many boys who have an interest in both.

    And maybe that speaks more to the way children are raised or influenced than anything else, and the way society genders things...if you're the parent of a little boy, why not teach them that "girls' stuff" is interesting too and point out all the good qualities mentioned?

  6. #261

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    ^ "Come on Johnny...let's take you to Toys R Us and get you some Barbies."


  7. #262

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post

    There have been a lot of studies that girls are able to accept and idolize both male and female role models/authors/etc. while boys have trouble with that and tend to lean only on male role models. A girl who loves the princesses might very well have a lightsaber at home (I know I did, as a kid) but you're unlikely to find as many boys who have an interest in both.

    And maybe that speaks more to the way children are raised or influenced than anything else, and the way society genders things...if you're the parent of a little boy, why not teach them that "girls' stuff" is interesting too and point out all the good qualities mentioned?
    I think girls can idolize both male and female role models because girls require/develop advanced communication skills, back when people were living in caves they had to (presumably) oversee raising the kids, and keeping the guy warriors/farmers in check. I think there were more matriarchial societies in the past.

    Right?
    Last edited by chesirecat; 03-09-2013 at 05:41 PM.

  8. #263

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Right?
    erm..... not quite...

  9. #264

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by doppio View Post
    ^ "Come on Johnny...let's take you to Toys R Us and get you some Barbies."

    Why not? Why would it be demeaning in any way for a boy to play with a Barbie doll, if he wanted to do so? We don't think it's demeaning for a girl to play with a toy that is traditionally boy oriented, would we? So why would the opposite be true? The fact that we still think it would be absurd for a boy to play with a doll - a "girl toy" - shows we still as a society devalue girls' toys and interests and think they're not worth as much.

    And anyway boys DO play with dolls, we just call them action figures. The term "action figure" was invented primarily because boys didn't want to play with dolls...the history is that Hasbro introduced the term because boys wouldn't want to play with their GI Joe figures if they were called dolls (even though they were the same size as Barbie dolls, were humanoid and wore clothes like Barbie...nope, they were action figures!). They're both character figurines with which children act out stories and scenarios. And action figures certainly get carried around the same way as dolls.

  10. #265

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I think girls can idolize both male and female role models because girls require/develop advanced communication skills, back when people were living in caves they had to (presumably) oversee raising the kids, and keeping the guy warriors/farmers in check. I think there were more matriarchial societies in the past.

    Right?
    I think it's more along the lines that we still as a society devalue women and their interests (think of "chick flicks," "chick lit," etc.) so boys grow up thinking that "girls' stuff" isn't worthy of their attention. Many parents who wouldn't care at all if their girls played with Star Wars would sweat bullets if their son asked for a Barbie doll. Another case in point: JK Rowling used her first initials on the Harry Potter books because the market research showed that boys tended to pass over books written by women.

  11. #266

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Why not? Why would it be demeaning in any way for a boy to play with a Barbie doll, if he wanted to do so? We don't think it's demeaning for a girl to play with a toy that is traditionally boy oriented, would we? So why would the opposite be true? The fact that we still think it would be absurd for a boy to play with a doll - a "girl toy" - shows we still as a society devalue girls' toys and interests and think they're not worth as much.

    And anyway boys DO play with dolls, we just call them action figures. The term "action figure" was invented primarily because boys didn't want to play with dolls...but aren't action figures and dolls the same thing? They're both character figurines with which children act out stories and scenarios. And action figures certainly get carried around the same way as dolls.
    If Barbie ever upgrades her accessories to missile launchers, RPGs, and firearms, and they produce violent Barbie cartoon shows, then yes, boys will line up to buy them. Guys love action films/television shows/books . . . Don't most boys like Lara Croft more than Barbie?

  12. #267

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    If Barbie ever upgrades her accessories to missile launchers, RPGs, and firearms, and they produce violent Barbie cartoon shows, then yes, boys will line up to buy them. Guys love action films/television shows/books . . . Don't most boys like Lara Croft more than Barbie?
    Not if they still call them dolls. There are about 12 different soldier Barbie and Ken dolls out there with full camo fatigues. If that Ken doll were sold in the "boys' toy aisle" without the Barbie name on the box he'd be a huge seller.

    The GI Joes - and a related "soldier doll" product by a different company - were the same toys with the same weapons BEFORE they were called "action figures" and boys wouldn't touch them. That's actual history, not speculation.

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    Last edited by Malina; 03-09-2013 at 05:58 PM.

  13. #268

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldDisney View Post
    Again, as I said before its a PREVIEW, invites only! Its not a walk up situation, so its apples and oranges. They obviously kept the number low on purpose, no different than what they did when they first previewed CL/BVS. Remember how low in numbers those were too? They want it to be manageable and guessing its for CM training as well. Just like it wasnt 30 mins wait for RSR like it was during the previews after they opened it to the public, I highly doubt it will only be 15 mins wait to see the princesses at PFF if its normally 30-45 mins on the IASW mall now.

    And also remember the previews were on a weekday in a pretty slow week for the park as well.
    There were quite a few interested general guests that were turned away at the various entry points. If they hadn't been turned away, the place would have been packed.

  14. #269

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortgageman View Post
    Are you trying to say this is something new? I grew up in the 50s and 60s and my parents bought me plenty of cheap plastic toys. Since none of them are still around I assume they went in the dumpster.

    I question I would pose about all this offering of princesses and their merchandise is this. Do people want this stuff because Disney offers it or does Disney offer it because people want it? Maybe a slight bit of former but I say primarily the latter. The tail doesn't wag the dog. Disney offers all this stuff because a whole lot of people want it, like it and will spend their money on it.
    Actually, I think a lot of it is neither. A lot of the junk they sell has nothing to do with Disney and would not be anything guests would have bought otherwise. The generic glow spinnie thingies they sell from carts don't even have any Disney related identification. They just have them because people will buy them - not because they are Disney or they really want them, but because they are something that gets the attention of the kiddies.

  15. #270

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Anyone know what the times will be for Fantasy Faire? Like will it be the usual (example) 10-6 or will it be till closing? Just curious. Thanks.

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