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  1. #301

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    *sigh* Here we go gendering the toys again.
    The shop is all princess dresses and tiaras. Disney is the one that gendered the shop.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  2. #302

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    To those who say CPG was dead or a ghost town, how often did you actually go there to be able to say this? If it wasn't when there was a school performance or swing dancing then yes, the place was "dead". But if it was during a performance the place could be quite packed. I'm not talking about Adventureland-after-Fantasmic! packed, but busy enough to be noticeable for that space. I think the place was more busy than some of you like to admit it was, or perhaps you never went there to enjoy it to be able to say it was empty 24/7.

    All they needed to do was clean it up a bit and re-open their food service. The crowds would come for sure if that were to happen. If all they wanted was to bring crowds into the area that's really all they had to do. And it would have cost them a lot less to do it.

  3. #303

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by 4th Gen Disney Fan View Post
    I think the answer is pretty simple: Swing dancing is no longer a popular thing to do. At least, it's not as popular as it used to be. There is a very limited audience for this sort of venue. Thus, the CPG was a ghost town.
    Well, that doesn't really answer the questions. My question is why did Disney let the area become like that in the first place?

    Of course, the answer is probably typical Disney SOP: Neglect an area or attraction long enough, until no one pays it any attention, then either remove it completely or change it to something that generally doesn't work. See, e.g., Cascade Peak, Peoplemover, Toontown trolley, Fort Wilderness, Subs, etc.

  4. #304

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by 4th Gen Disney Fan View Post
    I think the answer is pretty simple: Swing dancing is no longer a popular thing to do. At least, it's not as popular as it used to be. There is a very limited audience for this sort of venue. Thus, the CPG was a ghost town.
    The answer might not be that simple. My guess is that Disney neglected the area, not that swing dancing wasn't popular. If CPG had been fixed up and served food and drinks I don't believe it would have been "dead".

    edit: Got beaten to the punch by DisneyIPresume and Steve....
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  5. #305

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Well, that doesn't really answer the questions. My question is why did Disney let the area become like that in the first place?

    Of course, the answer is probably typical Disney SOP: Neglect an area or attraction long enough, until no one pays it any attention, then either remove it completely or change it to something that generally doesn't work. See, e.g., Cascade Peak, Peoplemover, Toontown trolley, Fort Wilderness, Subs, etc.
    How did Disney "let that happen"? It's not like they could make Swing dancing relevant or popular to today's audience. In fact, they kept CPG open and then opened Videopolis in the early 90's to try and cater to a different audience that didn't appreciate Swing/Jazz. Both venues failed to generate the crowds needed to justify keeping the locations open. Change was needed. It's not like they could force people to go to CPG.
    "I do not like to repeat successes. I like to go on to other things." - Walt Disney

  6. #306

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    To those who say CPG was dead or a ghost town, how often did you actually go there to be able to say this? If it wasn't when there was a school performance or swing dancing then yes, the place was "dead". But if it was during a performance the place could be quite packed. I'm not talking about Adventureland-after-Fantasmic! packed, but busy enough to be noticeable for that space. I think the place was more busy than some of you like to admit it was, or perhaps you never went there to enjoy it to be able to say it was empty 24/7.

    All they needed to do was clean it up a bit and re-open their food service. The crowds would come for sure if that were to happen. If all they wanted was to bring crowds into the area that's really all they had to do. And it would have cost them a lot less to do it.
    I don't get the "Ghost Town" talk as well. When stuff was going on in the CPG there was always a crowd.
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    “No worries, stay calm, one question. 
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  7. #307

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Well, that doesn't really answer the questions. My question is why did Disney let the area become like that in the first place?

    Of course, the answer is probably typical Disney SOP: Neglect an area or attraction long enough, until no one pays it any attention, then either remove it completely or change it to something that generally doesn't work. See, e.g., Cascade Peak, Peoplemover, Toontown trolley, Fort Wilderness, Subs, etc.
    Well I think mainly they had no clue what to do with the area....I think the best would have been to add a restaurant but there are sooo many on Main Street as is, that they decided to put something that would make profit, fill the area day and night and allow the Fantasyland Theater to reopen

    Which I for one am happy to KNOW we are getting a new show and new sub land over an area that was for a small audience and yes sometime it got crowds but it made not that much profit and didn't even use the full area...I know many want some areas to be dead but Disney wants to use every inch they can

  8. #308

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Well, that doesn't really answer the questions. My question is why did Disney let the area become like that in the first place?

    Of course, the answer is probably typical Disney SOP: Neglect an area or attraction long enough, until no one pays it any attention, then either remove it completely or change it to something that generally doesn't work. See, e.g., Cascade Peak, Peoplemover, Toontown trolley, Fort Wilderness, Subs, etc.

    More "evil Disney" conspiracy theory. I'll bet somehow Eisner was behind it all in his diabolical mission to destroy DL in his retirement.

    Let's face it, swing dancing is a niche activity. Now that there is an entire resort rather than just a stand alone park it stands to reason and is certainly not a travesty that it is better put somewhere else rather than smack dab in the middle of DL next to the castle.

    We all must accept that things change as the likes, tastes and interests of the park going public change. When they do change it isn't always going to be to everyone's liking. But you really have to look at the big picture. Is losing an area that hasn't been used much for 25 years to a well themed mini-land (even if it is geared toward a demographic different from you) that horrible? I say no.

  9. #309

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    I don't get the "Ghost Town" talk as well. When stuff was going on in the CPG there was always a crowd.
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    Key phrase, "when stuff was going on". That was the only time CPG had a crowd, and it's not like there was something going on everyday and night.

    When I worked in Fantasyland, I passed through CPG every time I went to work to get backstage. Not once did I see a crowd like the one in the photos whenever I walked through. All I would see were mothers taking a rest or once in a while, a line for Cinderella or Snow White. Other than that, there was no one there.
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  10. #310

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by 4th Gen Disney Fan View Post
    I think the answer is pretty simple: Swing dancing is no longer a popular thing to do. At least, it's not as popular as it used to be. There is a very limited audience for this sort of venue. Thus, the CPG was a ghost town.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortgageman View Post
    More "evil Disney" conspiracy theory. I'll bet somehow Eisner was behind it all in his diabolical mission to destroy DL in his retirement.

    Let's face it, swing dancing is a niche activity. Now that there is an entire resort rather than just a stand alone park it stands to reason and is certainly not a travesty that it is better put somewhere else rather than smack dab in the middle of DL next to the castle.

    We all must accept that things change as the likes, tastes and interests of the park going public change. When they do change it isn't always going to be to everyone's liking. But you really have to look at the big picture. Is losing an area that hasn't been used much for 25 years to a well themed mini-land (even if it is geared toward a demographic different from you) that horrible? I say no.
    No. Disney just saw a chance to update something that could make them a profit, it's as simple as that. No conspiracy stories here. Anyone who has stepped foot into the CPG on a Saturday night during the swing dancing performances would know that it was never a ghost town.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    *sigh* Here we go gendering the toys again. I don't think the CMs stop boys or girls from buying whatever they want. How much stereotypically "girl merchandise" is offered at the Star Trader? Does that mean Tomorrowland is for boys only?


    Much ado about nothing. While you're correct about anyone being able to buy anything, the BBB is pretty much geared towards girls. There is no denying that. I don't think anyone is saying that "only girls can buy stuff here" but more so it's marketed to girls more than anything.


  11. #311

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmineray View Post
    Key phrase, "when stuff was going on". That was the only time CPG had a crowd, and it's not like there was something going on everyday and night.

    When I worked in Fantasyland, I passed through CPG every time I went to work to get backstage. Not once did I see a crowd like the one in the photos whenever I walked through. All I would see were mothers taking a rest or once in a while, a line for Cinderella or Snow White. Other than that, there was no one there.
    Key phrase, "when stuff was going on
    And that would have been Disney's fault, correct? Because as I see it, if there were stuff going on then there would have been crowds and not "Dead" as some have said. That's what gets me, of course it was uncrowded when there was nothing going on, what do people expect?
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  12. #312

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by explodingboy View Post
    No. Disney just saw a chance to update something that could make them a profit, it's as simple as that. No conspiracy stories here. Anyone who has stepped foot into the CPG on a Saturday night during the swing dancing performances would know that it was never a ghost town.
    To me, this is the key. Yes, CPG was busy.... ONE night a week. Any other day of the week it was empty.
    "I do not like to repeat successes. I like to go on to other things." - Walt Disney

  13. #313

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    And that would have been Disney's fault, correct? Because as I see it, if there were stuff going on then there would have been crowds and not "Dead" as some have said. That's what gets me, of course it was uncrowded when there was nothing going on, what do people expect?
    I'd say so. Now, there is something going on in the area, something that isn't just for one day out of the entire week. The space is being utilized MUCH better, IMO.
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  14. #314

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    And that would have been Disney's fault, correct? Because as I see it, if there were stuff going on then there would have been crowds and not "Dead" as some have said. That's what gets me, of course it was uncrowded when there was nothing going on, what do people expect?
    What else could they have done to ensure that there were things going on all the time? The CPG was designed for Swing and Jazz bands. While these were very popular genres in the 50's and 60's, their time had come by the 80's. I just don't see how Disney could artificially generate crowds by having Jazz and Swing bands booked 7 days a week.

    Besides, let's say that they booked different bands that played different kinds of music on the "off" days. I can almost guarantee that "the purists" would complain that rock bands playing in the CPG would be "breaking theme".
    "I do not like to repeat successes. I like to go on to other things." - Walt Disney

  15. #315

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Doesn't have to be PFF or Swing Dance, do it? Why not the best of both worlds. Have the swing bands back on Saturday nights when most meet 'n greets close. Do you really think that there will be a ton of interest in the PFF on Saturday nights at 8 or 9pm? Bands/Music have demonstrated they can pack the area during that time...and they're usually all Premium Pass HOlders which ought to make Disney happy.

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