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  1. #376

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    Well what if, hypothetically, instead of Fantasy Fair, we got a whole new land with its own unique theme and it went where BTMRR and FF stands now. This new land would have portions visible from the hub like every other current land and had its own themed entrance touching the hub where the FF entrance is now. Would that be ok? If so, then how is FF any different from that? Is it because FL should be behind the castle? Then that implies FF detracts from FL and not MS like you say.

    I think FF is being called out and judged unfairly compared to the other lands/sublands of the park. Why is TL allowed to have a future themed entrance right on the hub with many of its attractions visible from there? Why is FL allowed a HUGE castle entrance with the matterhorn, carousel, and FL theater all visible from the hub? Because if FF and its visible tent and architecture bother you, then the astro orbitor, Star tours, Former rocket jets platform, PM track, Innoventions, Buzz should also be bothering you as well.

    Imo, I feel like a lot of these theories and attempts to objectively prove why FF doesn't fit are ways for some to avoid stating how they really feel. Olivia stated her opinions beautifully on the matter by saying it just didn't feel right to her. I respect that honesty a lot.
    I believe everybody hates the current location of the Astro Orbitor.
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  2. #377

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    soooooo...

    If Walt Disney would have come on TV during a special to introduce the fact that they were changing CPG into PFF there wouldn't be any backlash, correct? That's what it seems to come down to for me. People have already admitted that it is a gorgeous addition to the park that fits the same elaborate theming that we have come to know and love about Disneyland but it took out an original area of the park so they don't like it.

    I find this funny
    "If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that"





  3. #378

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    I believe everybody hates the current location of the Astro Orbitor.
    Fair enough. The rest of the examples still stand.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  4. #379

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by christianAdam View Post
    soooooo...

    If Walt Disney would have come on TV during a special to introduce the fact that they were changing CPG into PFF there wouldn't be any backlash, correct? That's what it seems to come down to for me. People have already admitted that it is a gorgeous addition to the park that fits the same elaborate theming that we have come to know and love about Disneyland but it took out an original area of the park so they don't like it.

    I find this funny
    Honestly for some thats what it will take lol. Then and ONLY then would it not only be ok, but a darn good idea too!

    But to be FAIR, I think the overwelming majority of Disney fans are not remotely bothered by PFF and either A. likes it personnally and/or really thinks their kids will love it or B. simply accepts it because it is nice, renovates a very dead area and give the park a little more Disney magic. I think the people who are complaining are in the vast minority. It doesnt mean their complaints arent valid of course my only point, and I said this before, Disney understands their fanbase, especially todays fans and they are doing things to make a big segment of their audience happy. So I can't remotely blame them for doing this even if I dont love the location myself. Not everyone has to like it, but the crazy hyperbole over it is why its hard to take these boards seriously at times.

    Anyway, any first day reports or pics??? I looked but besides a picture of the strollers, I havent seen anything else here.

  5. #380

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Attachment 27869

    Back when CPG existed it was geographically positioned as being part of Fantasyland! Makes sense, right next to the castle on the Fantasyland side of the moat, opposite Snow White's wishing well.
    I'm sorry, but the map you're using for reference isn't exactly accurate. CPG was closer to being directly across from what is now Pixie Hollow. The tent is not to the side of the castle as it appears on the map.

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    It is obvious that PFF isn't going anywhere, might as well let the fans who enjoy highly detailed great new attractions enjoy this welcomed addition to the park (for 98% of guests).
    I don't think anyone was trying to stop people from enjoying it...?

  6. #381

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I believe that Walt referred to Fantasyland as the "most magical kingdom of them all."

    In the end each land is like a separate course in a fancy dinner, they each have their own merits.
    Fair enough.

    And like each course in a fancy dinner has their own merits, each course also compliments each other to contribute to an overall pleasing meal. Similarly, the lands of Disneyland are also interrelated to one another. Each providing its own version of fantasy, but together all working with each other to transport the guest from reality into the land of yesterday, tomorrow, and fantasy.

    So It can be argued that where PFF is placed is more like eating spaghetti with a side of sushi instead of a side of meat balls.

  7. #382

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    Fair enough. The rest of the examples still stand.
    To be honest with you, most of your examples are, well, flimsy . Not only is the Astro Orbitor an eye sore but so are the stupid rocks in front of the entrance to Tomorrowland.

    The Castle is the main entrance to Fantasyland and the view of the Carousel is supposed to draw you in.

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    The Carousel was also not in the same spot (further back) when the park opened but moved when Fantasyland was renovated in 1983.

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    The entrance to Tomorrowland was never on the hub before the abomination of New Tomorrowland in 1998.

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    The Fantasyland (Wonderbra) Theater is also an eyesore and should have been designed better. The Matterhorn is what it is I will give you that.
    Most of the attractions you mentioned seeing from the hub were behind the respective entrances to the lands.

    Now, all of these changes occurred after Walt died and Michael Eisner was in charge (except New Fantasyland).
    Maybe now you can kinda see where some of us are coming from.
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  8. #383

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    To be honest with you, most of your examples are, well, filmsy. Not only is the Astro Orbitor an eye sore but so are the stupid rocks in front of the entrance to Tomorrowland.

    The entrance to Tomorrowland was never on the hub before the abomination of New Tomorrowland in 1998.

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    I love that open expanse from the hub into Tomorrowland. Such a beautiful metaphor for the future is wide open before you.

    And look at the color of the pavement. Back in those days You knew what land you were in by the color of the pavement. Note the teal color of Tomorrowland's pavement stops at the Peoplemover. It does not stretch out to the hub. On the other hand the redness of the Main Street sidewalk is extended out away from the hub and stops at the Peoplemover.

    So right there is physical evidence that the hub is part of Main Street and not of the lands surrounding it.

  9. #384

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    I love that open expanse from the hub into Tomorrowland. Such a beautiful metaphor for the future is wide open before you.

    And look at the color of the pavement. Back in those days You knew what land you were in by the color of the pavement. Note the teal color of Tomorrowland's pavement stops at the Peoplemover. It does not stretch out to the hub. On the other hand the redness of the Main Street sidewalk is extended out away from the hub and stops at the Peoplemover.

    So right there is physical evidence that the hub is part of Main Street and not of the lands surrounding it.
    So wide open and inviting wasn't it?
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  10. #385

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaVonDrake View Post
    I'm sorry, but the map you're using for reference isn't exactly accurate. CPG was closer to being directly across from what is now Pixie Hollow. The tent is not to the side of the castle as it appears on the map.

    I don't think anyone was trying to stop people from enjoying it...?
    1. You're wrong as Carnation Plaza Gardens *is* closer to the castle than Pixie Hollow, and the north-east side of CPG came about as close to the castle as Snow White's wishing well. This is plainly visible on Google Maps.

    2. When something new opens, fans (who like the product) generally like to applaud what was built, though obviously dissenting opinions are permissible, and encouraged, that is different from having a small number of folks constantly describe the change as indicative of the downfall of Disneyland to a third rate amusement park and basically trash a high-quality addition to the park.

    While I respect these people's opinions, and am a little sad that CPG is gone, it is disrespectful of Disney princess fans, and their parents, to consistently overlook the fact that little girls deserve a nice place to meet the princesses and have some "quality time" with Disney characters via the live entertainment, which small boys will watch as well, by constantly referring to PFF as a gunshot wound to Disneyland's soul and just crass commercialization, they discount the real feelings and likes of little girls and their families.

    I have to go on other sites to look at pictures of PFF, and to get some honest discussion of this area, as the coverage on Miceage has overall been very noxious. Sure, fans of CPG probably wrote some letters and made some noise when the removal was discussed (I didn't see much dust kicked up), but it kinda doesn't make sense to be so vicious as PFF ain't going anywhere for the next half century, I would wager. The horse already left the barn, CPG has headed off to Neverland.

    They may complain about Disney "catering" to the princess crowd as if they Disneyland is their park, and their park alone, but Disney also "caters" to the AP crowd, which could also be complained about. Fact is: many different types of guests enjoy Disneyland, and one demographic shouldn't slam another just for having an attraction/area which they will love.

    CPG was added after somebody asked Walt to put in a place where folks could dance, hence you could say that it catered to fans of swing dancing and disregarded the aesthetics of the hub and Disneyland in general, and the place got really run down.

    Some of the first reviews of PFF on Miceage were highly critical of the project, and described the colors as atrocious, well, if you've been going to Disneyland every week for years then any change will stick out like a red thumb.

    Folks should remember that *before* CPG there was the Gazebo, which was later moved to Magnolia Park.

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    But this was only moved there because Walt saw that the gazebo would have blocked the view of castle from where it was going to be put . . . in Town Square! Perhaps, or even likely, due to this quick change in location, the area became associated with Main Street when it is clearly located right next to the castle. That's right, the gazebo was designed for town square near the train station and was moved.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 03-13-2013 at 07:22 PM.

  11. #386

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    1. You're wrong as Carnation Plaza Gardens *is* closer to the castle than Pixie Hollow, and the north-east side of CPG came about as close to the castle as Snow White's wishing well. This is plainly visible on Google Maps.

    2. When something new opens, fans (who like the product) generally like to applaud what was built, though obviously dissenting opinions are permissible, and encouraged, that is different from having a small number of folks constantly describe the change as indicative of the downfall of Disneyland to a third rate amusement park and basically trash a high-quality addition to the park.

    While I respect these people's opinions, and am a little sad that CPG is gone, it is disrespectful of Disney princess fans, and their parents, to consistently overlook the fact that little girls deserve a nice place to meet the princesses and have some "quality time" with Disney characters via the live entertainment, which small boys will watch as well, by constantly referring to PFF as a gunshot wound to Disneyland's soul and just crass commercialization, they discount the real feelings and likes of little girls and their families.

    I have to go on other sites to look at pictures of PFF, and to get some honest discussion of this area, as the coverage on Miceage has overall been very noxious. Sure, fans of CPG probably wrote some letters and made some noise when the removal was discussed (I didn't see much dust kicked up), but it kinda doesn't make sense to be so vicious as PFF ain't going anywhere for the next half century, I would wager. The horse already left the barn, CPG had headed off to Neverland.

    They may complain about Disney "catering" to the princess crowd as if they Disneyland is their park, and their park alone, but Disney also "caters" to the AP crowd, which could also be complained about. Fact is: many different types of guests enjoy Disneyland, and one demographic shouldn't slam another just for having an attraction/area which they will love.

    CPG was added after somebody asked Walt to put in a place where folks could dance, hence you could say that it catered to fans of swing dancing and disregarded the aesthetics of the hub and Disneyland in general, and the place got really run down.

    Some of the first reviews of PFF on Miceage were highly critical of the project, and described the colors as atrocious, well, if you've been going to Disneyland every week for years then any change will stick out like a red thumb.

    Folks should remember that *before* CPG there was the Gazebo, which was later moved to Magnolia Park.

    Name:  disney93.jpg
Views: 109
Size:  85.4 KB

    But this was only moved there because Walt saw that the gazebo would have blocked the view of castle from where it was going to be put . . . in Town Square! Perhaps, or even likely, due to this quick change in location, the area became associated with Main Street when it is clearly located right next to the castle. That's right, the gazebo was designed for town square near the train station and was moved.
    What would your explanation of Pixie Hollow be then?
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  12. #387

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    So wide open and inviting wasn't it?
    So is an empty lot!

    I'm not necessarily a fan of the rocket jets where they are, but I realize that is because I remember the old setup. Kids growing up today probably think of the rocket jet location as "normal", and it doesn't obstruct flow into Tomorrowland as much as some people think as the rate limiter to crowd flower is near Star Tours.

  13. #388

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    So right there is physical evidence that the hub is part of Main Street and not of the lands surrounding it.
    Palm trees were part of the Turn-of-the-Century midwest? The shades of red are different and those planters are certainly more appropriate to 1986 than 190?. The smaller picture of Tomorrowland shows the planters reaching to the red brick of the Hub. That is far closer than PFF seems to be in the photos I have seen.

    You may be right (or wrong) in your opinion, but the "physical evidence" is hardly conclusive.
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  14. #389

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    What would your explanation of Pixie Hollow be then?

    Pardon?

    CPG/PFF is the discussion topic, PFF is *obviously* located close to the castle as part of it wraps around close to the castle and the walk-way into Fantasyland winds through PFF, anybody can look it up on Google Maps.

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Timicus View Post
    Palm trees were part of the Turn-of-the-Century midwest? The shades of red are different and those planters are certainly more appropriate to 1986 than 190?. The smaller picture of Tomorrowland shows the planters reaching to the red brick of the Hub. That is far closer than PFF seems to be in the photos I have seen.

    You may be right (or wrong) in your opinion, but the "physical evidence" is hardly conclusive.
    Spot on.

    I was about to mention that the palm trees are flora used in Tomorrowland, not a midwestern turn of the century town, they also did *not* have cement planters in turn of the century towns.

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