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  1. #391

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Pardon?

    CPG/PFF is the discussion topic, PFF is *obviously* located close to the castle as part of it wraps around close to the castle and the walk-way into Fantasyland winds through PFF, anybody can look it up on Google Maps.
    Well, you are saying FF is Fantasyland, correct? Because it is next to the Castle. Would you consider Pixie Hollow part of Fantasyland?
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  2. #392

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Spot on.

    I was about to mention that the palm trees are flora used in Tomorrowland, not a midwestern turn of the century town, they also did *not* have cement planters in turn of the century towns.
    And Medieval castles did not have fairs outside the walls where the peasants could take their picture with a mermaid........
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  3. #393

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Don't forget that CPG is also thematically separated from the hub by a waterway . . . which is plainly continuous with the castle's moat. Is somebody going to argue that the castle's moat becomes a river in the middle of a midwestern turn of the century town?

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    I don't mind hearing honest criticism of PFF, or why CPG was special to some, but the area sure makes more sense as being part of Fantasyland.

  4. #394

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    And Medieval castles did not have fairs outside the walls where the peasants could take their picture with a mermaid........
    Wrong as somebody already pointed out: poor medieval folks had to make-do with land outside the castle walls. In diagrams of castles I've seen, the only stuff inside the walls was often for the protection/service of the royalty. Check out how some of the british royal castle are arranged next time you're in England/Scotland and you'll get the idea.

  5. #395

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    Well, you are saying FF is Fantasyland, correct? Because it is next to the Castle. Would you consider Pixie Hollow part of Fantasyland?
    I consider Snow White's wishing well part of Fantasyland, it is next to the castle's wall like PFF, still don't get the relevancy to Pixie Hollow . . . that's not what we're discussing and Pixie Hollow ain't next to the castle walls.

  6. #396

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I consider Snow White's wishing well part of Fantasyland, it is next to the castle's wall like PFF, still don't get the relevancy to Pixie Hollow . . . that's not what we're discussing and Pixie Hollow ain't next to the castle walls.
    But most folks consider PH part of Fantasyland even though it is not next to the Castle. Do you consider it Fantasyland?
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  7. #397

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Wrong as somebody already pointed out: poor medieval folks had to make-do with land outside the castle walls. In diagrams of castles I've seen, the only stuff inside the walls was often for the protection/service of the royalty. Check out how some of the british royal castle are arranged next time you're in England/Scotland and you'll get the idea.
    With mermaids???
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  8. #398

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    But most folks consider PH part of Fantasyland even though it is not next to the Castle. Do you consider it Fantasyland?
    Is this random question day? We're discussing PFF, I believe, not Pixie Hollow. Look at Google Maps, both Snow White's wishing well and PFF are close to the castle and they both feature walkways to Fantasyland.

  9. #399

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    With mermaids???
    If only there was some sort of, I don't know, Land of Fantasy for things like this.
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    "The thing that makes us different is our way of thinking, our judgement and experience acquired over the years. Giving it 'heart.' Others haven't understood the public. We developed a psychological approach to everything we do here. We seem to know when to 'tap the heart.' Others have hit the intellect. We can hit them in an emotional way. Those that appeal to the intellect only appeal to a very limited group. Let's not let the mechanics get in here and foul the whole thing." -Walt Disney

  10. #400

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    To be honest with you, most of your examples are, well, flimsy . Not only is the Astro Orbitor an eye sore but so are the stupid rocks in front of the entrance to Tomorrowland.

    The Castle is the main entrance to Fantasyland and the view of the Carousel is supposed to draw you in.

    Attachment 27879

    The Carousel was also not in the same spot (further back) when the park opened but moved when Fantasyland was renovated in 1983.

    Attachment 27880 Attachment 27881



    The entrance to Tomorrowland was never on the hub before the abomination of New Tomorrowland in 1998.

    Attachment 27876 Attachment 27878


    The Fantasyland (Wonderbra) Theater is also an eyesore and should have been designed better. The Matterhorn is what it is I will give you that.
    Most of the attractions you mentioned seeing from the hub were behind the respective entrances to the lands.

    Now, all of these changes occurred after Walt died and Michael Eisner was in charge (except New Fantasyland).
    Maybe now you can kinda see where some of us are coming from.

    The examples are supposed to be flimsy. Just like the "logic" and "theory" behind why FF supposedly doesn't fit is flimsy.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  11. #401

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Timicus View Post
    If only there was some sort of, I don't know, Land of Fantasy for things like this.
    Of course, the idea of real mermaids is preposterous. As preposterous as an amphibian driving an automobile, flying above London in a time period before commercial airplane flights, bumping into a talking rabbit-or a talking puppet, escaping an evil witch, or seeing an elephant fly.

    Silly outlandish things one should never be seen in Disneyland which is, of course, based entirely on reality.

    Yes, banish all of this silliness to a land of Fantastical things I say!
    Last edited by chesirecat; 03-13-2013 at 07:55 PM.

  12. #402

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Of course, the idea of real mermaids is preposterous. As preposterous as an amphibian driving an automobile, flying above London in a time period before commercial airplane flights, bumping into a talking rabbit-or a talking puppet, escaping an evil witch, or seeing an elephant fly.

    Silly outlandish things one should never be seen in Disneyland which is, of course, based entirely on reality.

    Yes, banish all of this silliness to a land of Fantastical things I say!
    Absolutely! Including palm trees in mid century America!
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  13. #403

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    There is no wrong side of the hub. The entire Central Plaza is part of Main Street. At least it was until the modern Disney Corp decided to let the seams rip open to the adjacent lands.
    The central plaza could be considered part of Main Street, but beyond Plaza Inn and Plaza Pavilion, everything outside of the plaza resided in the lands they lead to - Adventureland, Frontierland, Fantasyland and Tomorrowland. And since the Carnation Gardens were separated from Main Street by the Adventureland and Frontierland entrances, it was actually out of place from the Main Street proper anyway.

  14. #404

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    To be honest with you, most of your examples are, well, flimsy . Not only is the Astro Orbitor an eye sore but so are the stupid rocks in front of the entrance to Tomorrowland.

    The Castle is the main entrance to Fantasyland and the view of the Carousel is supposed to draw you in.

    The Carousel was also not in the same spot (further back) when the park opened but moved when Fantasyland was renovated in 1983.

    The entrance to Tomorrowland was never on the hub before the abomination of New Tomorrowland in 1998.

    Most of the attractions you mentioned seeing from the hub were behind the respective entrances to the lands.

    Now, all of these changes occurred after Walt died and Michael Eisner was in charge (except New Fantasyland).
    Maybe now you can kinda see where some of us are coming from.
    Those "respective entrances" WERE part of their respective lands. when you looked East, you SAW Tomorrowland. When you looked North, Fantasyland, West Frontierland and South-West, Adventureland, and finally South, Main Street.

    The Hub was intended to be the embarkation point to the various lands. They weren't hidden. Hey were exposed in order to draw you in. They STILL serve that purpose.

  15. #405

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    Re: First look at the Fantasy Faire

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    The central plaza could be considered part of Main Street, but beyond Plaza Inn and Plaza Pavilion, everything outside of the plaza resided in the lands they lead to - Adventureland, Frontierland, Fantasyland and Tomorrowland. And since the Carnation Gardens were separated from Main Street by the Adventureland and Frontierland entrances, it was actually out of place from the Main Street proper anyway.
    One article covering the closing of CPG described it as being in a sort of grey area between Fantasyland and Frontierland.

    You're right, in my opinion, when you describe the hub as a transitional area, as well as being a "menu" of options to choose from. Even if the "street" around the hub which has the trolley can be considered part of Main Street (feels more transitional actually), the area from the curb up has often in the past and present been given over to the land where the entrance is located.

    Opponents of PFF claim that the obvious "wild jungle plants" in front of Adventureland are simply Victorian plants (though not in containers and obviously meant to look 'wild'), and that the old Tomorrowland entrance with concrete modern planters and palm trees are somehow part of midwest turn of the century America (yeah right), these aren't honest arguments for placing CPG in Main Street.

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