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  1. #46

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    Re: Fantay Faire not doing so well ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    To me the best quality and integrity that Disneyland has to offer is represented by attractions like Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Jungle Cruise, Mark Twain and the Disneyland Railroad.
    Uh . . . yeah, those pirates who auction women, drink, and commit arson on a grand scale have a lot of "integrity." Of course, the Pirate films were made for artistic reasons and profit never entered the equation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

    PFF/FFV represents the best of what Iger & Staggs's "Disney Parks Disneyland" has to offer: more marketeering of Disney brands.
    Disneyland has always had marketing, always will, but you forget that guests demanded to see Tinker Bell in the park, due to her presence on the Disneyland television show, and hence walk around characters were introduced.

    Little girls want to see the princesses, they love watching their films and television shows. Is this bad? Might as well trash every single television show/movie out there, such as Star Trek, and other franchises.

    I'm an adult male, but I loved the Princess and the Frog (which won an Academy Award for best animated feature), and while I won't wait in line for Tiana, I like seeing her walk around the park and interacting with folks.

    Take a close look because this is what quality looks like:

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    No, little girls and adults aren't "bad people" for deriving enjoyment from seeing their favorite characters in the park, if they took away the princesses people would go nuts.

  2. #47

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    Re: Fantay Faire not doing so well ?

    Yeah like how Steve Martian said to Donald from the 50th Annivery of Disneyland it is the characters that brings us all back to the place that they make us fill like family. I also don't see PFF2 a failing.

  3. #48

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    Re: Fantay Faire not doing so well ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Illusion0fLife View Post

    First, I really really dislike that "John Carter" has become shorthand for "financial disaster."

    The problem is that a lot of people here dislike the idea/placement/whatever of PFF and they're grasping at straws trying to justify their opinion as the "correct" one. It's fine to not like something, but let's not be deliberately disingenuous here. Attendence will almost assuredly pick up this weekend and it will pick up even more during the summer.

    If we're seeing 15 minute wait times posted on a Saturday in July, yeah, it'll be safe to say it was a failure, but I somehow doubt that'll be happening.
    I liked John Carter, it wasn't entirely realistic as we know that Mars is inhospitable for humans, but better than the reviews.

    The disgruntled APers who are trashing PFF perhaps are hoping, with vicious glee, that they change the tent color (isn't that bad) to appease them, or perhaps that they can dent the enthusiasm guests will have.

    Well, this effort is like trying to bash a new Star Wars movie to a group of superfans who go the conventions and read all the Star Wars books . . . princess fans (little girls and parents who like happy little girls) will show up irregardless of meaningless drivel and lies propagated by the disgruntled few who are personally enraged with Disney as they lost a quiet spot (a dead spot) in the park that only a few knew about.

    There's probably also a hint of misogynistic sentiments and narcissism in that they believe that little girls shouldn't be "catered" to, and that rightfully stuff should be built only for their demographic, i.e. middle-age men obsessed with trains and pirates who auction off women like property.

    Well, CPG is dead as a doornail, at this point it is just lies to dishearten fans of PFF for "revenge", right?

    In the end their campaign to tarnish PFF, (trying to tarnish the princess franchise is like trying to put out the sun's fire by spitting at it), does real harm to the image of APers* on the this site as obviously they are 100% wrong about the popularity of PFF, and lie about it, such that nobody should ever take anything they say about Disneyland seriously again!

    *I know that not all APers hate PFF like the wrath of Kahn, but a few are able to make the board very hateful of changes, even when they are positive (as viewed by the vast majority of guests).
    Last edited by chesirecat; 03-15-2013 at 10:05 PM.

  4. #49

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    Re: Fantay Faire not doing so well ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Hook View Post
    Yeah like how Steve Martian said to Donald from the 50th Annivery of Disneyland it is the characters that brings us all back to the place that they make us fill like family. I also don't see PFF2 a failing.
    Exactly. CMs are impersonal (unless you know them, as I know some of them), and hence the only way you can feel you are going "home" is by seeing the familiar faces of characters.

    I really loved Brave, I dig walking past the Merida meet and greet and crack a smile when I see her, does this make me a bad person or a bad Disney fan?!? There will always be a "cool factor" to seeing a princess come to life in the form of a face character.

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    See how it works: you see a film that you end up loving and seeing a face character representing the protagonist is a positive. Disney films are especially heart warming, that is why guests love the face characters.

    The regular haters can piddle all they want over the "princess franchise" like it's some Nazi subversion program, but Brave won an Oscar, was a great film, and I can't wait to see Frozen and it will be great to see Anna and Elsa face characters. Those with an agenda fail to realize that Disneyland is special for thousands of details, and one of those details is the princesses, which add charm/magic to the park, and hence benefit everybody.

    If Walt was alive he would be happy with PFF, he loved Storybook land canal boats and would love a storytime show for kids, and he'd love the meet and greets as he loved seeing kids have a good time, and if CPG had to go he'd probably say, "times sure have changed, glad Disneyland was able to change with them in a positive way."
    Last edited by chesirecat; 03-15-2013 at 10:10 PM.

  5. #50

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    Re: Fantay Faire not doing so well ?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    The Fantasyland Theater wasn't a very good place for a princess meet and greet, thematically speaking, as it wasn't built for this. With PFF, (Fantasy Faire?), we now have a beautifully constructed area dedicated to the princesses. Parents can grab a bite, enjoy a partially shaded queue line, and enjoy some live entertainment if they so choose.

    Parents of little girls are going to see the princesses *anyway*, it is wonderful that Disney decided to reward this loyal fan base with a nice place for families with little kids.

    Princess Anna and Elsa will soon be the new members of the Disney pantheon of princesses, and I look forward to seeing Frozen when it comes out.

    I think it is a little dishonest to announce that PFF is a failure, and is very laughable given that Disneyland will *always* have a steady stream of princesses, many of whom come dressed up in their princess gear. Trust me, parents of little girls already know all about the offerings for little girls, the supposed "bright" colors of PFF don't look that bad in recent photos, and it is more for the festival atmosphere as there are signs.
    Yeah exactly! And why this idea that Fantasy Faire would somehow be a failure? I mean people are basically saying that suddenly kids don't want to see the princesses anymore. Did something change last week that people are questioning? I'm pretty sure as long as princesses are there, there will be lines like there are for them in every area of the park that has them now.

    And what's even odder to me is the fact people arent thinking beyound a week or two. You expressed it and sometimes the difference between the fans and the people who decide on this stuff. Disney fans think a little more short term (sometimes very short term I guess) vs Disney who thinks long term! Do people think when the next NEW hot princess comes out the little ones just not going to care? Really? Reeeeaaally? When Disney makes the next princess feature like they do every year and shoves it in 127 countries where it makes a half of billion dollars and you got little ones all over the planet from L.A. to Manilla all begging their parents to get the DVD, doll, dress, posters, McDonalds toys, souvineer cups, puzzle, bed sheets, cell phone cover, video game and watch the cartoon which is all fine and dandy, but there are litterally only 5 (soon to be 6) places on the globe they can actually meet them!

    And take a good hard guess where they will mostly be meeting the hottest new princess at Disneyland every year? Thaaat's right! So now instead of waiting for 90 mins in some make shift area in FL, they will now have a place for them permanently if they choose to put them there. This place is going to be the hottest zip code in the DLR for a long time to come just as long as little ones want pictures with the latest heroine, just like they ALWAYS wanted pictures with them. So I have no idea how this could 'fail' exactly? Its kind of like suggesting everyone will stop wanting to ride thrill rides one day.

    Believe me, if you dont have kids or grandkids now, when you do several years or decades from now, little ones will still want to meet the princesses just like they do today and there will be the spot to see them in. Even Disney's home holographic app version still won't be the same as seeing them in person in flesh and blood.
    Last edited by WorldDisney; 03-15-2013 at 11:31 PM.

  6. #51

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    Re: Fantay Faire not doing so well ?

    Guys it haven't even been a week yet! Lets not jump to conclusions here because it wasent that crowded during a weekday. I'm going to Disneyland in a few hours I will let you guys know how crowded it really was

  7. #52

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    Re: Fantay Faire not doing so well ?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    If Walt was alive he would be happy with PFF, he loved Storybook land canal boats and would love a storytime show for kids, and he'd love the meet and greets as he loved seeing kids have a good time, and if CPG had to go he'd probably say, "times sure have changed, glad Disneyland was able to change with them in a positive way."
    Interesting. Usually the "Disneyland is not a museum" crowd are the ones claiming that Walt has been dead for almost 50 years and that there is no clue as to what he would be happy with today. Anyway, did you see the 50th Anniversary movie at all? They show an interview with Walt where he explains how he came up with Disneyland. He said when his daughters would ride the carousel at Griffith Park he would sit in a bench eating peanuts thinking of a place where parents and children could enjoy things together. (Not separately - together). And although he didn't say it, the it was insinuated that he was bored out of his mind.

    No one has a clue to know if Walt would have actually liked it or not. My guess is he probably would have been ok with the princess meet and greets as that would be an opportunity for children and then parents to interact with the princesses and to get their photos taken together as a family. The story time I'm not too sure of. If it was something that entertained their parents as well it might be ok. But if the parents are bored and partaking in story time with their children only to appease them, I don't think Walt would have approved of that. He would have wanted something that would have equally entertained while families together, and something the parents wanted to do not to keep their children happy but because they wanted to be entertained as well.

  8. #53

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    Re: Fantay Faire not doing so well ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Interesting. Usually the "Disneyland is not a museum" crowd are the ones claiming that Walt has been dead for almost 50 years and that there is no clue as to what he would be happy with today. Anyway, did you see the 50th Anniversary movie at all? They show an interview with Walt where he explains how he came up with Disneyland. He said when his daughters would ride the carousel at Griffith Park he would sit in a bench eating peanuts thinking of a place where parents and children could enjoy things together. (Not separately - together). And although he didn't say it, the it was insinuated that he was bored out of his mind.

    No one has a clue to know if Walt would have actually liked it or not. My guess is he probably would have been ok with the princess meet and greets as that would be an opportunity for children and then parents to interact with the princesses and to get their photos taken together as a family. The story time I'm not too sure of. If it was something that entertained their parents as well it might be ok. But if the parents are bored and partaking in story time with their children only to appease them, I don't think Walt would have approved of that. He would have wanted something that would have equally entertained while families together, and something the parents wanted to do not to keep their children happy but because they wanted to be
    entertained as well.
    For me, seeing my daughters enjoy their time at Disneyland is the most fun I can have, and by far the most rewarding experience ever. I have lots of fun seeing my little ones light up seeing characters. And as a matter of fact, I commend Disney for coming up with a well-themed, well-rounded environment tha the parents can enjoy while their little ones have fun. It's not like its all in a big shed like it could have been...it's very aesthetically pleasing, and therefore a lottttt different from being in Griffith park.

  9. #54

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    Re: Fantay Faire not doing so well ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Interesting. Usually the "Disneyland is not a museum" crowd are the ones claiming that Walt has been dead for almost 50 years and that there is no clue as to what he would be happy with today. Anyway, did you see the 50th Anniversary movie at all? They show an interview with Walt where he explains how he came up with Disneyland. He said when his daughters would ride the carousel at Griffith Park he would sit in a bench eating peanuts thinking of a place where parents and children could enjoy things together. (Not separately - together). And although he didn't say it, the it was insinuated that he was bored out of his mind.

    No one has a clue to know if Walt would have actually liked it or not. My guess is he probably would have been ok with the princess meet and greets as that would be an opportunity for children and then parents to interact with the princesses and to get their photos taken together as a family. The story time I'm not too sure of. If it was something that entertained their parents as well it might be ok. But if the parents are bored and partaking in story time with their children only to appease them, I don't think Walt would have approved of that. He would have wanted something that would have equally entertained while families together, and something the parents wanted to do not to keep their children happy but because they wanted to be entertained as well.
    You are assuming that parents find Fantasy Faire "boring", due to the details outside, inside, I think that parents find Fantasy Faire a whole lot more entertaining than a simple carousel. There are benches and no doubt parents and kids will sit to together while they watch the show (especially very young kids), yes, there are mats for kids, the parents will watch the show too, and I find it to be entertaining.

    If you're not a person who goes to plays, or enjoys the novelty of it, then you might not be "captivated", but I think the chances of being "bored" are much lower.

    As the other poster said, parents experience joy when they're kids are having fun, so parents will get a lot out of the offering, even if as adults they might not do the princess meet and greet. I'm guessing that you do not have little children.

    The imagineers who worked on this area noted that even college kids are stopping by to see the show, so I think it is too early to peg the audience for Fantasy Faire as just for kids.

    Remember, after Disneyland opened *adults* complained that there wasn't a Tinker Bell character, and she was shortly thereafter added to the park. Parents will, and do, want their kids to experience what they are interested in.

  10. #55

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    Re: Fantay Faire not doing so well ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    For me, seeing my daughters enjoy their time at Disneyland is the most fun I can have, and by far the most rewarding experience ever. I have lots of fun seeing my little ones light up seeing characters. And as a matter of fact, I commend Disney for coming up with a well-themed, well-rounded environment tha the parents can enjoy while their little ones have fun. It's not like its all in a big shed like it could have been...it's very aesthetically pleasing, and therefore a lottttt different from being in Griffith park.
    Agreed, they could put the princesses in a simple gazebo and the kids would still line up, they could put the show in the old CPG and guests would still line up. The details I think help the kids have a more vivid experience, and perhaps help them believe they are in the world of Tangled, Belle . . . etc, and for the parents the whole area looks great, better than anything at any mall in this country, and live/witty entertainment is nothing to scoff at as apparently even young adults/college kids are stopping by to see this.

    I think Fantasy Faire fullfils Walt's dream of having families experience stuff together, certainly it is no worse than parents and kids experiencing Storybook Land Canal boats while they just sit there and listen to the stories. Most of Disneyland has rides that teens and adults can enjoy together, it is hard to make something that pleases toddlers as well as adults, and I think they pulled it off.

    Parents who took their kids to the Big Thunder petting zoo loved seeing the kids have a good time, they don't then complain to the castmembers "Well, I love watching my kids pet the animals, but where is the appeal for adults?" Just the feel of the Big Thunder ranch and being around animals was enough to keep adults from getting "bored", Fantasy Faire is a step above this as they've got all the great details.

  11. #56

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    Re: Fantay Faire not doing so well ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Anyway, did you see the 50th Anniversary movie at all? They show an interview with Walt where he explains how he came up with Disneyland. He said when his daughters would ride the carousel at Griffith Park he would sit in a bench eating peanuts thinking of a place where parents and children could enjoy things together.

    And although he didn't say it, the it was insinuated that he was bored out of his mind.
    Everybody knows that Walt hated carousels so much he made sure Disneyland wouldn't have . . . oh, there is one!

    There are even pictures of Walt on the carousel having fun at Disneyland!

    Walt went to Griffith park in the 1940s with his little girls, many years before Disneyland, and he may well have wanted to jump up on that carousel with the kids, but social conventions at the time were against this, this is partly why Disneyland was created (and was a revolutionary concept) *allowing* parents to relive their childhood years and play with the kids, in essence.

    Kinda snarky asking me if I saw the 50th Anniversary movie, as I've known about this famous piece of Disneyland history for *many* decades and have probably every book written on the park and Walt. Dare I suggest that you might not be interpreting correctly this piece of Disneyland history?

    Did you know that as a kid Walt would play with other kids toys left out on their porches during his paper route (as his family was too poor to afford toys). Did you know that Walt loved driving various "vintage" cars around Disneyland before it opened? Saying that Walt hated carousels is ludicrous.

    Sure, Walt said that if you just aim for the kids then "you're dead", and that little kids are always "reaching", so having highly detailed attractions works, I wouldn't at all say that Fantasy Faire aims just for the kids, far from it, there are plenty of details to please adults.

    I've seen what a crappy version of a meet and greet is: Ariel's Grotto in DCA with limited theming that is a pure dump. Grit my teeth and do it because we *have* to do it. They go up to your table and hock the picture of your kid with Ariel . . . while you're eating.

    I think I know crass versus highly themed and tasteful.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 03-16-2013 at 07:29 AM.

  12. #57

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    Re: Fantay Faire not doing so well ?

    In my defense, I think the new area is really cute and well done, yes the tent is ugly but oh well. Im just worried it isnt doing well which is why I posted asking if anyone else noticed it. Not bashing. just stating what I see, and thats its not very busy being that its the areas first few days, I thought it would have been slightly busier. I dont wait in line for princesses unless its a special occasion or v day. But the other day and yesterday (Fri) I jumped in line bevause it was so short.

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    Re: Fantay Faire not doing so well ?

    Quote Originally Posted by PozEmerald View Post
    In my defense, I think the new area is really cute and well done, yes the tent is ugly but oh well. Im just worried it isnt doing well which is why I posted asking if anyone else noticed it. Not bashing. just stating what I see, and thats its not very busy being that its the areas first few days, I thought it would have been slightly busier. I dont wait in line for princesses unless its a special occasion or v day. But the other day and yesterday (Fri) I jumped in line bevause it was so short.
    The pictures on Miceage show a lot of people milling about. You might not have thought a lot about the target audience for the meet and greet, which is little girls and their families, they will see the princesses pretty much irregardless of what the meet and greet looks like.

    So, of course it is silly to worry that Fantasy Faire won't get enough traffic!

    Are you seriously "worried" that the Disney princess fans have evaporated?!? The show looked pretty packed in the pictures as well. I would guess that 95% of all little princess fans will plan on seeing Fantasy Faire if, and when, they know of its existence.

    Your opinion is that the tent is "ugly", but I and others will no doubt have other opinions. Overall the area looks great, and some of the photos from Miceage had *way* too much color saturation, which actually made the light bulbs on Maurice's treat cart look pinkish! Really surprised that more recent photos don't make the tent look bad at all, in fact it looks very nice. I think some of the columns on Miceage are trying to whip up fans into a rage and lead them to believe that the tent is atrocious without letting people make that decision themselves. Even before the construction walls dropped there was wailing and complaining about what was rising behind them.

    Why is Miceage publishing oversaturated photos and using over-the-top rhetoric to attack Fantasy Faire?!? Why do seem people not to value little girls' interests and believe that Disneyland should be just a train and old west type park?

    Just because HM is a walk-on sometimes, people don't go around wringing their hands saying that the ride is somehow unpopular.

    The fact that there is a line means that PFF is operating at capacity, which has been doubled incidentally. No doubt there will be tons of crowds at peak times.

    Sure, your post is ostensibly innocent enough on its own, but it is very misinformed and jumps the gun in terms of judging Fantasy Faire, especially since these type of offerings are a proven success and since Fantasy Faire is the highest quality princess meet and greet Disney has done in decade of doing them.

    It like if the Cowboys and Packers are playing in the Super Bowl, and Dallas is down by a field goal in the first four minutes and you call your Dallas Cowboy fans and tell them how "worried" you are that the Cowboys will lose. Do you understand why that might make some people angry?
    Last edited by chesirecat; 03-16-2013 at 01:19 PM.

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    Re: Fantay Faire not doing so well ?

    Quote Originally Posted by PozEmerald View Post
    I was in the park today, and it was pretty busy because spring break has started. anyways I went by fantasy faire to see the chaos... only to find it pleasantly empty. No line for the food cart, princess meet and greet had a 15 min wait. there were lots of CM on hand doing nothing looking bored.. what ever happen to the70 min lines for princess's ? even on slow days the princess line has been at least 45min.. could it be that because its just the same 3 princess's now ? or does the new area just suck ?, I liked it... except the ugly royal theater
    Really!? Does the new area "suck"?

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    Re: Fantay Faire not doing so well ?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Everybody knows that Walt hated carousels so much he made sure Disneyland wouldn't have . . . oh, there is one!

    There are even pictures of Walt on the carousel having fun at Disneyland!

    Walt went to Griffith park in the 1940s with his little girls, many years before Disneyland, and he may well have wanted to jump up on that carousel with the kids, but social conventions at the time were against this, this is partly why Disneyland was created (and was a revolutionary concept) *allowing* parents to relive their childhood years and play with the kids, in essence.

    Kinda snarky asking me if I saw the 50th Anniversary movie, as I've known about this famous piece of Disneyland history for *many* decades and have probably every book written on the park and Walt. Dare I suggest that you might not be interpreting correctly this piece of Disneyland history?

    Did you know that as a kid Walt would play with other kids toys left out on their porches during his paper route (as his family was too poor to afford toys). Did you know that Walt loved driving various "vintage" cars around Disneyland before it opened? Saying that Walt hated carousels is ludicrous.

    Sure, Walt said that if you just aim for the kids then "you're dead", and that little kids are always "reaching", so having highly detailed attractions works, I wouldn't at all say that Fantasy Faire aims just for the kids, far from it, there are plenty of details to please adults.

    I've seen what a crappy version of a meet and greet is: Ariel's Grotto in DCA with limited theming that is a pure dump. Grit my teeth and do it because we *have* to do it. They go up to your table and hock the picture of your kid with Ariel . . . while you're eating.

    I think I know crass versus highly themed and tasteful.
    What on earth are you talking about?

    Please tell me where you read that I think Walt hated carousels. If anything you and I are saying the same thing. He was bored having to wait for his daughters while they rode the carousel. He wanted something that parents and their children could enjoy together - that's all I said and that's all Walt said too. How you interpret that to mean that I think Walt hated carousels is beyond me.

    Did I say he wanted to ride with them? No. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. I didn't know that aboult Walt wanting to play with other kid's toys. So maybe he did want to ride. Who knows? And does it really matter? The point isn't that he hated carousels (your assumption - not mine). The point is that he created a place for parents and children to have fun together. If you enjoy this space then all the power to you. I know I would be bored while watching my child partake in the activities there (although my child is a 14 year old boy so that will never happen) and I have seen the videos of the storytelling shows and personally I find them to be boring. But if you like that go for it. I know a lot of people will so you don't have too much to worry about. But there are others like myself who prefer areas that the whole family can enjoy together.
    Last edited by DisneyIPresume; 03-16-2013 at 04:53 PM.

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