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  1. #61

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    Re: Market House to get Starbucks this Fall. Disneyana to be merged with Market House

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmineray View Post
    If we're really going to be this strict on theme, then a whole bunch of things need to change.

    All the stores on Main Street need to get rid of the current merchandise being sold, and replace it with toys, knick-knacks and clothing from the early 1900s and back. As a matter of fact, we need to get rid of ALL the merchandise being sold in the stores right now, and replace them with period-appropriate things, according to the land the merch is being sold in.

    We need to get rid of the food being sold on Main Street. That's not period-appropriate. We need to get rid of all the snack carts in Fantasyland... We all know the people of the Renaissance in the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries weren't drinking coke and eating popcorn and churros. The drinks will be replaced with wine and water. The pizza and burgers and Village Haus would have to go.

    We would have to think of and invent some sort of futuristic foods and drinks for Tomorrowland.

    The Mickey balloons, flashlights, princess balloons, etc. can no longer be sold on Main Street. This would need to stop at once.

    The chimichangas would most likely need to be banned from Frontierland.

    The music the organ in Fantasyland plays needs to IMMEDIATELY change. No one was listening to those classic Disney tunes during the European Renaissance.

    This is just a short list I've come up with. If we must, must, MUST strictly stick to theme, we need to fix these problems as soon as possible. We also need to hurry up and fix other problems that need correcting.
    Exactly. Purists love to pick and choose what is acceptable and what is not not with no consistency in their criteria, and then expect us to believe they are absolutely, objectively, and factually correct on what good theming is. Oh and don't forget, nostalgia or resistance to change is never ever a factor in their judgement.

    I'm sorry, other opinions are perfectly fine, but to pass them as fact or to downplay nostalgia and resistance to change....? I just don't buy it.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  2. #62

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    Re: Market House to get Starbucks this Fall. Disneyana to be merged with Market House

    Quote Originally Posted by alphabassetgrrl View Post
    The cafe in DCA ... I can't even remember where the PFF&P name is on the building, but the Starbucks sign is large and clear.
    Funny, because in this picture (from Disneyland's website, no less) I can count the FF&P logo at least six times, and only see "Starbucks" once.

    Last edited by Illusion0fLife; 03-20-2013 at 03:28 PM.

  3. #63

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    Re: Market House to get Starbucks this Fall. Disneyana to be merged with Market House

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFan1995 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    ....the majority of people WANT a starbucks, Disney tried it at DCA and it worked so well there they knew it would be worth the investment to get one at Disneyland too

    They are a business and if I was running the show I would have done the samething but I'd also use the profits of this store to make sure we get new attractions people want to
    There are a LOT of things that people (Disney management) WANT, that aren't compatible with the Disneyland image. Everybody can't have everything they want and still expect Disneyland to retain it's magic.

    People complained in the past when Pressler reduced the park into a glorified mall. This is just another attempt at the same sort of thing. Next step: replace Plaza Pavilion with Olive Garden? Tomorrowland Terrace with Burger King? El Zocolo with Del Taco?

    There are a lot of things I can appreciate in their own context. I'll relish the outside world coffee, food, whatever when i get it. But if it all gets shoehorned into Disneyland, then Disneyland isn't special anymore.
    Well said. The more that outside the berm is brought inside the berm, the less special Disneyland becomes. Disneyland's Main Street is neither a history museum nor an authentic period recreation: it's an idealized evocation of a period, place and self-view in American culture. An evocation which Starbucks, with its associations of contemporary consumerist culture, clashes with. Starbucks shouts modern branded lifestyle, no matter how much it is plastered over with period decoration.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  4. #64

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    Re: Market House to get Starbucks this Fall. Disneyana to be merged with Market House

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Well said. The more that outside the berm is brought inside the berm, the less special Disneyland becomes. Disneyland's Main Street is neither a history museum nor an authentic period recreation: it's an idealized evocation of a period, place and self-view in American culture. An evocation which Starbucks, with its associations of contemporary consumerist culture, clashes with. Starbucks shouts modern branded lifestyle, no matter how much it is plastered over with period decoration.
    In your opinion of course, others believe differently.

    It isnt the product to me that relays 'theme', its how the product is used.

    Coffee in a coffee house its entirely appropriate regardless of the brand of coffee.

    Though technically all of those companies you listed were 'outside' companies as well that were brought inside.
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
    -Dr. Strange

  5. #65

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    Re: Market House to get Starbucks this Fall. Disneyana to be merged with Market House

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Well said. The more that outside the berm is brought inside the berm, the less special Disneyland becomes. Disneyland's Main Street is neither a history museum nor an authentic period recreation: it's an idealized evocation of a period, place and self-view in American culture. An evocation which Starbucks, with its associations of contemporary consumerist culture, clashes with. Starbucks shouts modern branded lifestyle, no matter how much it is plastered over with period decoration.
    You said it yourself, it's an idealized evocation of a period--it's drawing upon the themes, ideas, and look of a historical period, place and time to give us a feel of being on Main Street. If you were to say that it's a history museum or an "authentic period recreation" than your earlier points about Starbucks not existing during the "turn of the century" would be correct and the Starbucks WOULD need to be stricken from the place to be an accurate recreation of a time period. So would a lot of modern conveniences that we take for granted, as others have pointed out.

    So, if we are to accept anachronisms (for example, the modern formulation of Coca Cola), since we are only evoking the idea of turn of the century Americana over recreating it, why is Starbucks suddenly an exception? Is Starbucks any more associated with contemporary culture than Coca Cola, a huge multinational corporation? What about the cups and containers that we've been using to take our (Nescafe) coffee through the park for years, are those accurate? We've accepted all of these as long as they're dressed with decoration that evokes the period and place, even if they are not historically accurate. Why not Starbucks as long as it's in appropriate period-esque appearance as well?

  6. #66

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    Re: Market House to get Starbucks this Fall. Disneyana to be merged with Market House

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Well said. The more that outside the berm is brought inside the berm, the less special Disneyland becomes. Disneyland's Main Street is neither a history museum nor an authentic period recreation: it's an idealized evocation of a period, place and self-view in American culture. An evocation which Starbucks, with its associations of contemporary consumerist culture, clashes with. Starbucks shouts modern branded lifestyle, no matter how much it is plastered over with period decoration.
    What no I hate this talk of Magic....this is like the argument against movie rides

    Some hate them but others LOVE them...no side is "right" but to say Peter Pan is less magical because it exists out side the berm is just silly same goes with food, drinks and coffee. If it's good then it's good and thats what matters more then being exclusive

  7. #67

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    Re: Market House to get Starbucks this Fall. Disneyana to be merged with Market House

    Quote Originally Posted by TwilitWings View Post
    You said it yourself, it's an idealized evocation of a period--it's drawing upon the themes, ideas, and look of a historical period, place and time to give us a feel of being on Main Street. If you were to say that it's a history museum or an "authentic period recreation" than your earlier points about Starbucks not existing during the "turn of the century" would be correct and the Starbucks WOULD need to be stricken from the place to be an accurate recreation of a time period. So would a lot of modern conveniences that we take for granted, as others have pointed out.

    So, if we are to accept anachronisms (for example, the modern formulation of Coca Cola), since we are only evoking the idea of turn of the century Americana over recreating it, why is Starbucks suddenly an exception? Is Starbucks any more associated with contemporary culture than Coca Cola, a huge multinational corporation? What about the cups and containers that we've been using to take our (Nescafe) coffee through the park for years, are those accurate? We've accepted all of these as long as they're dressed with decoration that evokes the period and place, even if they are not historically accurate. Why not Starbucks as long as it's in appropriate period-esque appearance as well?
    Quite good and thoughtful response, this, and very close to how I feel - thank you for responding and addressing points others have while remaining respectful! Very good post.

  8. #68

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    Re: Market House to get Starbucks this Fall. Disneyana to be merged with Market House

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    Exactly. Purists love to pick and choose what is acceptable and what is not not with no consistency in their criteria, and then expect us to believe they are absolutely, objectively, and factually correct on what good theming is. Oh and don't forget, nostalgia or resistance to change is never ever a factor in their judgement.

    I'm sorry, other opinions are perfectly fine, but to pass them as fact or to downplay nostalgia and resistance to change....? I just don't buy it.
    Yep, so true.
    Princess of Agrabah and Queen of Never Land

  9. #69

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    Re: Market House to get Starbucks this Fall. Disneyana to be merged with Market House

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    Exactly. Purists love to pick and choose what is acceptable and what is not not with no consistency in their criteria, and then expect us to believe they are absolutely, objectively, and factually correct on what good theming is. Oh and don't forget, nostalgia or resistance to change is never ever a factor in their judgement.

    I'm sorry, other opinions are perfectly fine, but to pass them as fact or to downplay nostalgia and resistance to change....? I just don't buy it.
    This just about sums it up.

  10. #70

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    Re: Market House to get Starbucks this Fall. Disneyana to be merged with Market House

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmineray View Post
    We would have to think of and invent some sort of futuristic foods and drinks for Tomorrowland.
    Tomorrowland is probably the best themed land in the park as far as food is concerned. The food is pretty much the same as it is today but the prices they charge are definitely futuristic!

  11. #71

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    Re: Market House to get Starbucks this Fall. Disneyana to be merged with Market House

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Tomorrowland is probably the best themed land in the park as far as food is concerned. The food is pretty much the same as it is today but the prices they charge are definitely futuristic!
    And containing artificial man-made ingredients
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  12. #72

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    Re: Market House to get Starbucks this Fall. Disneyana to be merged with Market House

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Tomorrowland is probably the best themed land in the park as far as food is concerned. The food is pretty much the same as it is today but the prices they charge are definitely futuristic!
    Okay, well maybe we can eat food the astronauts eat when they're in space.
    Princess of Agrabah and Queen of Never Land

  13. #73

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    Re: Market House to get Starbucks this Fall. Disneyana to be merged with Market House

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Hopefully it won't be brought back as some kind of "Limited Time Magic" promotion. That is one flavor that I don't think anyone wants to remember nor will they feel nostalgic for.
    I'm not much of a coffee drinker, but I did always get the Nescafe Hot Chocolate late at nights, and it has always tasted better than Starbucks, because they don't really water it down like Starbucks does. I'm sorry but I'm really going to miss Nescafe in the parks.
    Signature down for reimagineering.

  14. #74

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    Re: Market House to get Starbucks this Fall. Disneyana to be merged with Market House

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Well said. The more that outside the berm is brought inside the berm, the less special Disneyland becomes. Disneyland's Main Street is neither a history museum nor an authentic period recreation: it's an idealized evocation of a period, place and self-view in American culture. An evocation which Starbucks, with its associations of contemporary consumerist culture, clashes with. Starbucks shouts modern branded lifestyle, no matter how much it is plastered over with period decoration.
    So is it the product that evokes a contemporary, consumerist culture? Coffee has been around for centuries. Espresso-based beverages have also been around since before 1900. The product is completely in line with time period, place, and self-view.

    If your issue is with Starbucks and how they market themselves or how others perceive it, then we need to ask what about the product does that. I personally think it's the store. It's full of trendy furniture, pop/contemporary/jazz music, modern lines and architectural details, etc. From what we've learned through the Disney blog, none of these things are going into the Market House.

  15. #75

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    Re: Market House to get Starbucks this Fall. Disneyana to be merged with Market House

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFan1995 View Post
    There are a LOT of things that people (Disney management) WANT, that aren't compatible with the Disneyland image. Everybody can't have everything they want and still expect Disneyland to retain it's magic.

    People complained in the past when Pressler reduced the park into a glorified mall. This is just another attempt at the same sort of thing. Next step: replace Plaza Pavilion with Olive Garden? Tomorrowland Terrace with Burger King? El Zocolo with Del Taco?

    There are a lot of things I can appreciate in their own context. I'll relish the outside world coffee, food, whatever when i get it. But if it all gets shoehorned into Disneyland, then Disneyland isn't special anymore.
    Finally, someone that gets it.


    This has been a Filmways presentation dahling.

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