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  1. #61

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    Re: Does this mean the subs are here to stay? (Finding Nemo Sequel Confirmed)

    I just hate the subs. They are tight and you always have some beefy guy sweating all over you on those little seats. After a while, I can get into the serenity and cuteness, but it doesn't make it worth saving to me. My grandkids went once and said, "Cute". They went on "Little Mermaid" and were so bored they wanted to get off. And these kids are Disney freaks! They are atmospheric, though...pretty at night.

  2. #62

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    Re: Does this mean the subs are here to stay? (Finding Nemo Sequel Confirmed)

    Quote Originally Posted by mitzkity View Post
    I just hate the subs. They are tight and you always have some beefy guy sweating all over you on those little seats. After a while, I can get into the serenity and cuteness, but it doesn't make it worth saving to me. My grandkids went once and said, "Cute". They went on "Little Mermaid" and were so bored they wanted to get off. And these kids are Disney freaks! They are atmospheric, though...pretty at night.

    I also think Mermaid is a big disappointment. Yes, it is a "people eating omnimover", but it never has a line and I when I take our daughter on it (she might ride it once, but she doesn't ask to get on it though she loves Ariel), I also want to get off and think about what I could be doing.

  3. #63

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    Re: Does this mean the subs are here to stay? (Finding Nemo Sequel Confirmed)

    Quote Originally Posted by DLandFansAZ View Post
    Unfortunately I feel that the future of Tomorrowland will include an upgrade to make the the subs Finding Dory Submarine Voyage. Disney will act like water on this one and take the path of least resistance and just do a make over of the submarines.
    Quote Originally Posted by DrFink View Post
    This definitely means they are here to stay. They will probably get a small refurb/update after the release, too. That is my prediction.
    Uhhhh … … Disney is not known for updating attractions on a regular basis, to coincide with their films. (Not to mention let some languish into abandoned facilities.) Star Wars:Phantom Menace debuted in 1999. Took them 12 years (2011) to finally update their 24 year old attraction. The carousel building in TL sat empty for 10 years .. before they did anything. PM tracks .. still there … 13 years after Rocket Rods shut permanently. 2nd Floor Starcade … empty since 1999. 29 years of Country Bear Jamboree .. the perfect format to update regularly. How many times did they change the show? ONCE! With one seasonal show for Christmas time. Skyway chalet in Fantasyland, a dust mist since 1994 ……

    So, according to their history – I’d say – No. Do I know for sure? Well, none of us do. But I decided to wager based on their history.

    They spent $172,000,000 on renovating the subs to “Finding Nemo” just 6 short years ago. 4 years of development & rehabbing the old attraction & new construction….. So, unless they want to surprise us (though I doubt it) I think it’s safe to say – They not only will not update the attraction to “Finding Dory” … I think the subs are staying for quite some time.


    Quote Originally Posted by choco choco View Post
    Why does everyone assume Autopia is on the chopping block? Do they not realize that every castle park in the world has one? Do they not think that the reason they continually build them is because Disney knows it is popular?
    Probably because it’s one of the cheapest types of attractions to throw together, to make the land look like it has something?


    Quote Originally Posted by Diznehound View Post
    If they really feel a need to remove the subs and autopia-they could easily (having purchased the franchise) turn tomorrowland into STAR WARS LAND- thus eliminating the need for massive overhauls every 10 yrs or so …..
    They don’t even want to do it every 30 years.

    The only time in TL history where it was changed after 10 years … was after the first incarnation (1955 to 1966). TL:67 … was 30 years (1967 to 1997) .. and now .. the one I dub “Frankenstein” land .. grafted with all sorts of “patches” that don’t match from one to the other – 1998 to the present. Which is now going on 15 years.

    Then you have to factor in their ATTEMTPED makeovers … which start in 1980 … that was shelved. In 1988 “TL:2055” was set … shelved a few years later. And we know Tony Baxter had a plan 3 years ago – turned down by executives.

    Keep the Autopia track- but transform it into a kind of Star Speeder attraction-(A giant slot-car setup comes to mind)- Along the way- Sand People and Banthas, Jawas, Ewoks, etc.- Atop the Space Mt. Pavilion- a two story walk through of the Millenium Falcon with Audio-Animatronic figs-(Luke and Obi-wan learning to duel, R2D2 and the Wookie playing holographic chess), etc... this would make the waiting line for Space Mt. much more interesting, and visually stunning outdoors. A cafe setting with Aliens (separated from guest eating area by glass)- I think they could even incorporate the people mover track into the starspeeder attraction. Believe it or not, I'm not a big fan of the franchise- but it would be a great way of saving Tomorrowland without having to update every 10 years.
    With all that … that wouldn’t be saving Tomorrowland, at that point – It becomes Star Wars Land.

    Quote Originally Posted by lightofdarkness View Post
    Alright chesire, let's go through some of this point by point

    No, they can't. The tracks and supports are too old to meet OSHA standards. They lost their grandfather status due to the Rocket Rods. If a new anything were to use them, in any fashion, they would have to meet current safety and earthquake standards. They won't, it's just too expensive.
    How do we know what’s too expensive and what’s not?

    The only ones with that answer … is the accounting department at the studio.

    Things change. People love them both, but they've both been closed for extended periods of time over the years, in particular the subs. People were upset when they closed, but then the memory faded, much like the People Mover.
    Pardon me for asking … You mean your own memory? Or the memory of others?

    As for the memory of others – It’s a hot discussion in many forums across the net, all the time. Every year. Not to mention polls run from local newspapers of Southern CA … and the Peoplemover always ranks the highest for a return. A grass roots movement has existed for a while. Plenty of people have expressed passion, and interest in a return of some kind.

    If they pull them out, the crowds that replace the few who protest the absence will more than convince the brass they made the right decision.
    Creative decisions are always subjective.

    Does Winnie The Pooh pull in more numbers than Country Bear Jamboree? Every time I’m there .. there’s barely a queue for it. Did “the brass” make a right decision with Tomorrowland:1998? Or how about DCA 1.0 (How about we discuss WDW – And a slew of bad creative decisions there?) And not everyone is an agreement that adding Johnny Depp to PotC .. or adding Disney Characters to Small World exactly rank high on “the RIGHT decision!”

    So … LOL .. lets do ourselves a favor .. and not fall for that nave notion .. that - “Da Brass” always know what’s best. Because the last 15 or so years ….. have not shown the very best in creative decision-making.




    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando Mendez View Post
    im not gonna lie I have been on these subs once in my life and that was enough granted it is a popular attraction it still has nothing to do with tommorow. It will probably be around for awhile tho the last time i was in the park i was talking to an imaginer who said the tommorowland expansion wont be happening anytime soon...i can kind of believe him because innoventions resigned there sponsors until 2015.
    Expand where? There’s not a heck of a lot of room to expand in any direction. Probably he meant the word – renovation?

    I think that some legitimately lament Nemo because Tomorrowland lost a lot of its pure science fiction attractions ……………….
    I think Tomorrowland in Disneyland will forever be a land of science fantasy (versus science fiction)
    Okay … I have to say something …. Are you trying to say Science-Fact? The 1967 Tomorrowland was a dedicated to attractions rooted in Science-fact. The idea in GE’s pavilion (Carousel of Progress) …. Was how electricity transformed our REAL lives .. and how Progress City was going to transform our lives even more – in the REAL future, complete with a model of a very REAL city that Walt was trying to sell to the American public. In McDonnell Douglas’ attraction … guests would preview what it will be like when we do travel to the moon on a regular basis. Monorail, Peoplemover were designed as real mass transit options for a growing population. Adventure Thru Inner Space examined the very real imagery of a snowflake under a microscope. Albeit, miniaturizing people …. pushing the “fictional” envelope.

    Science-FICTION didn’t enter the scene until Captain EO in 1986. And Star Tours, the next year. Captain EO is just as much Science-Fiction as the Borg in Star Trek. And when Captain EO’s “MAGICAL POWERS” turn on .. is only when Hooter gets the music going, and the captain singing and dancing make his powers even stronger. And of course … we have George Lucas’ “a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away” …. Sounds just as fictional as any fairy tale story involving a “far away kingdom, long ago.”

    So … LOL … lets understand there is Science-Fact … and there is Science-Fiction. And Tomorrowland from 1967 to 1985 (America Sings aside) was rooted in a more real,“factual” world.
    Last edited by Tomorrowland_1967; 04-05-2013 at 04:05 AM.
    MY SIGNATURE:
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  4. #64

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    Re: Does this mean the subs are here to stay? (Finding Nemo Sequel Confirmed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post
    Uhhhh … Disney is not known for updating attractions on a regular basis, to coincide with their films. (Not to mention let some languish into abandoned facilities.) Star Wars:Phantom Menace debuted in 1999. Took them 12 years (2011) to finally update their 24 year old attraction. The carousel building in TL sat empty for 10 years .. before they did anything. PM tracks .. still there … 13 years after Rocket Rods. 2nd Floor Starcade … empty since 1999. 29 years of Country Bear Jamboree .. the perfect format to update regularly. How many times did they change the show? ONCE! With one seasonal show for Christmas time. Skyway chalet in Fantasyland, a dust mist since 1994 ……

    So, according to their history – I’d say – No. Do I know for sure? Well, none of us do. But I decided to wager based on their history.

    They spent $172,000,000 on renovating the subs to “Finding Nemo” just 6 short years ago. 4 years of development & rehabbing the old attraction & new construction….. So, unless they want to surprise us (though I doubt it) I think it’s safe to say – They not only will not update the attraction to “Finding Dory” … I think the subs are staying for quite some time.
    Awesome points (though I don't think the Sub refurb was even close to $172,000,000, and CBJ had a vacation show too.).

    Spot on with CBJ, they could have done a Halloween, Valentine's show, heck, even an American Idol style show or something where the Bears compete, they let it stagnate.

    But with Nemo the wrinkle is that it is Pixar, and Lasseter will probably look at adding some new video, IMHO, just because Pixar really hussels on rides that promote their films . . . though it might take 5 years to get thematic/plot elements from Finding Dory, if not longer. They'd have to get Ellen and others to do voice work, plan out how the new scenes would work, etc. If they do this in tandem with the film then maybe they could get it done in a reasonable amount of time, but I kinda doubt it.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 04-05-2013 at 12:08 AM.

  5. #65

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    Re: Does this mean the subs are here to stay? (Finding Nemo Sequel Confirmed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post

    Does Winnie The Pooh pull in more numbers than Country Bear Jamboree? Every time I’m there .. there’s barely a queue for it. Did “the brass” make a right decision with Tomorrowland:1998? Or how about DCA 1.0 (How about we discuss WDW – And a slew of bad creative decisions there?) And not everyone is an agreement that adding Johnny Depp to PotC .. or adding Disney Characters to Small World exactly rank high on “the RIGHT decision!”

    So … LOL .. lets do ourselves a favor .. and not fall for that nave notion .. that - “Da Brass” always know what’s best. Because the last 15 or so years ….. have not shown the very best in creative decision-making.
    It is so true that "da brass" as you put it, make horrible decisions with regards to attractions and it is obvious that it is a horrible decision, and yet the park is stuck with it.

    Pooh has a ridiculously short line, the ride just doesn't work as well as in MK. I would gladly wait 30 minutes for MK's Pooh, but not more than 1 minute for Disneyland's Pooh. At some point you hit a threshold where you go too cheap and the ride is unpalatable. Witness Mermaid, often short lines and I don't see a lot of kids clamouring to go on it.

    Yes, Autopia is a "simple ride", but it is also probaby one of the best versions of this simple ride, you can sit back and take in the sights and families with young kids *love* the attraction, and it is still popular given that Fast Passes are available.

    Having said that, Autopia could be plussed. Do a Mars rover over a futuristic alien landscape, or perhaps something else. So many possibilities. People assume that any ride that goes into the Subs/Autopia area would be fantastic, but imagine if they annexed the area for Fantasyland and just plopped down Mermaid.

  6. #66

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    Re: Does this mean the subs are here to stay? (Finding Nemo Sequel Confirmed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post

    Okay … I have to say something J …. Are you trying to say Science-Fact? The 1967 Tomorrowland was a dedicated to attractions rooted in Science-fact. The idea in GE’s pavilion (Carousel of Progress) …. Was how electricity transformed our REAL lives .. and how Progress City was going to transform our lives even more – in the REAL future, complete with a model of a very REAL city that Walt was trying to sell to the American public. In McDonnell Douglas’ attraction … guests would preview what it will be like when we do travel to the moon on a regular basis. Monorail, Peoplemover were designed as real mass transit options for a growing population. Adventure Thru Inner Space examined the very real imagery of a snowflake under a microscope. Albeit, miniaturizing people …. pushing the “fictional” envelope.

    Science-FICTION didn’t enter the scene until Captain EO in 1986. And Star Tours, the next year. Captain EO is just as much Science-Fiction as the Borg in Star Trek. And when Captain EO’s “MAGICAL POWERS” turn on .. is only when Hooter gets the music going, and the captain singing and dancing make his powers even stronger. And of course … we have George Lucas’ “a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away” …. Sounds just as fictional as any fairy tale story involving a “far away kingdom, long ago.”

    So … LOL … lets understand there is Science-Fact … and there is Science-Fiction. And Tomorrowland from 1967 to 1985 (America Sings aside) was rooted in a more real,“factual” world.
    Captain EO is Science Fantasy, not Science Fiction.

    Star Trek, and specifically, the Borg are pure Science Fiction. Borg, afterall, is short for cyborg, and the concept of the Borg is a science fiction concept.

    Star Wars is Science Fantasy.

    Science Fantasy is wand-waving, like Captain EO, Science Fiction uses science fact as a starting point, and extrapolates to the future.

    So, I think you are right that Science Fantasy has expanded at Tomorrowland with Star Tours and Buzz Lightyear, and (Nemo is Science Fantasy if not just pure fantasy.)

    Believe me, I have read copious amounts of science fiction, (and have written a good deal of science fiction) . . . people on this board are always confusing Science Fiction and Science Fantasy.

  7. #67

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    Re: Does this mean the subs are here to stay? (Finding Nemo Sequel Confirmed)

    the subs are still incredibly popular, i don't know why people think they aren't. it consistently has the longest line in the park for a non fp ride and is very new to boot (the nemo reskin of course). it's an expensive ride to maintain to be sure, but nothing that's totally cost prohibitive. rocket sleds didn't just die cuz of the cost of tires, it died because the entire structure was weakening since it was so poorly designed. nemo doesn't have that problem.

    also autopia isn't going anywhere. many might not like it but disney puts it in every new park (hong kong and i hear shanghai too) so obviously they love the space-sucker. given that autopia is going to suck up that plot of land, there is almost nothing that can replace the nemo ride in fit in that footprint given the autopia tracks ride on top of it, along with the monorail tracks and ppl mover tracks. the cost of refurbing that area would be astronomical, and there isn't any clear idea what would replace it.

    the only thing that really should go is innovations, but dlr is gonna do that iron man which will for sure extend the life of it by another year at least.

    as for theming, tomorrowland always had terrible theming and rides that never fit, from the $$$ showcases to 20k under the leagues (it was "tomorrow" when written sure, not in 1960). ironically, autopia was the most "tomorrow" of the rides, since when it was made the interstate was still in construction. obviously today there's nothing tomorrow about it. anyway my poitn is tomrrowland has been poorly themed with weird fitting rides since day 1 and that's not gonna change anytiem soon haha.

  8. #68

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    Re: Does this mean the subs are here to stay? (Finding Nemo Sequel Confirmed)

    Quote Originally Posted by thomaslw View Post
    tomrrowland has been poorly themed with weird fitting rides since day 1 and that's not gonna change anytiem soon haha.
    Well .. sure. From 1955 to 1966 ... and again from 1974 (America Sings) to the present.

    For a short time (1967 to 1973 - 6 years) .... It was perfect.

    It was cohesive. Had a uniform approach. It all made sense - together.

    That was the day when Disney stood for Innovation and Originality!

    Two concepts CEO Robert Iger cares nothing about! It's all about cross-promotion ... From film-to-theme-parks!

    That's what Universal does! And the reason I go there once every 7 years vs. Disneyland every year. But now I'm doing Disneyland less.

    When it stood out .. there was reason to go.

    Now it's rehashing films into rides - Boring!
    MY SIGNATURE:
    Dear Peoplemover Fans, If you want to see a new attraction that at least mimics the 1967 Peoplemover in a future Tomorrowland remodel, you need to write to the powers-that-be, and let them know. If you don't - Then the next time Tomorrowland is remodeled, you will see a land barren of any "Peoplemover" type attraction.

  9. #69

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    Re: Does this mean the subs are here to stay? (Finding Nemo Sequel Confirmed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post
    Well .. sure. From 1955 to 1966 ... and again from 1974 (America Sings) to the present.

    For a short time (1967 to 1973 - 6 years) .... It was perfect.

    It was cohesive. Had a uniform approach. It all made sense - together.

    That was the day when Disney stood for Innovation and Originality!

    Two concepts CEO Robert Iger cares nothing about! It's all about cross-promotion ... From film-to-theme-parks!

    That's what Universal does! And the reason I go there once every 7 years vs. Disneyland every year. But now I'm doing Disneyland less.

    When it stood out .. there was reason to go.

    Now it's rehashing films into rides - Boring!
    heh 67-73 fortunately predates me (and i'd imagine many of us!) so i couldn't say what it was like then, although the attractions did indeed sound more fitting, so ill concede a short 7 year span. aside from that though it has been kind of a mess, esp during the 80s when i went as a kid, where you'd have uh circle vision and america sings (huh?? not even trying here)... mission to mars fit but it wasn't a very good ride. people mover sorta fit, even though it got stale by then. still sad to see it gone tho. autopia hasnt fit since the 60s. space mountain is a fun ride but thematically it seemed like a real cheap effort to make it fit into tomorrowland. doesn't even make sense.. what the heck is a space mountain. but it's an awesome ride so it gets a pass.

    yeah then came captain eo and star tours, both sorta sci-fi but never what tomorrowland was about. buzzlightyear... same thing. at this point i think they just totally gave up (actually no they gave up in the 70s) and just tossed in whatever wouldn't fit in the rest of the park. in the greatest irony of all, innovations is really the only attraction that actually is "tomorrow". i dont know how you can blame igar for tomrrowland's current state, at least he cleaned up the subs. tomrrowland has been a frankenmess for the past 40 years! i hold no hope that it will ever change so disney might as well just put in fun rides in there.

  10. #70

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    Re: Does this mean the subs are here to stay? (Finding Nemo Sequel Confirmed)

    Quote Originally Posted by FreshBakedDisney View Post
    I sure hope you're right. While I'm not a fan of Nemo as a pure ride, I can't imagine a Disneyland without those subs going by in the lagoon. That corner of the park where Nemo, Autopia, The Monorail and the Matterhorn all intersect is pure Disney. It can't be replaced.
    And it was only better when the Skyway and the People Mover were running atop it all. Just like walking across a bridge on Tom Sawyer Island as you look past a steam boat, an Indian canoe and across the river at a mine car train passing a waterfall.
    "Nice work, pal"

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    Re: Does this mean the subs are here to stay? (Finding Nemo Sequel Confirmed)

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    It's so fun how it loops in circles, though, isn't it? I hope they never change that!
    Yeah looping in circles is fun on the monorail, plus the extra track from the loops probably increases capacity. It just would seem to be difficult though to build anything in that area around the current right of way.

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    Re: Does this mean the subs are here to stay? (Finding Nemo Sequel Confirmed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post
    How do we know what’s too expensive and what’s not?
    That simple - the lack of action tells us all that it is too expensive. If it was going to be cheap and easy and pull in a ton of people, Disney would have brought it back by now. If they felt the ROI was there and this was a sure thing, they would have done it. The fact that they haven't tells us that they believe it is too expensive and the wrong direction to go in. The fact that people in Disney have said that it is not coming back tells us that even creatively, people think it is too expensive to bring back.

    As for the memory of others – It’s a hot discussion in many forums across the net, all the time. Every year. Not to mention polls run from local newspapers of Southern CA … and the Peoplemover always ranks the highest for a return. A grass roots movement has existed for a while. Plenty of people have expressed passion, and interest in a return of some kind.
    People asked for the return of Captain EO and after a few short months, the attraction became a ghost town. People asked for the return of Mr Lincoln. Lincoln came back, and the crowds disappeared.

    The one thing everyone has to keep in mind, is that these attractions originally closed because they were too expensive to keep running compared to the number of guests they were seeing. There is no conspiracy, just simple mathematics. If you're attraction is seeing the same number of guests per day, but costing ten times as much as Peter Pan to keep running, then you have to close it and try something else.

    Does Winnie The Pooh pull in more numbers than Country Bear Jamboree?
    Oh absolutely without a doubt. There have been some ride ops on here who said that Pooh actually sees more guests per day than Nemo.

    Every time I’m there .. there’s barely a queue for it.
    The PeopleMover never had a line either.

    So … LOL .. lets do ourselves a favor .. and not fall for that nave notion .. that - “Da Brass” always know what’s best. Because the last 15 or so years ….. have not shown the very best in creative decision-making.

    They don't have to make the best creative decisions, because truthfully they are not running an art museum. They are running a theme park. they make the decisions based on what their visitors are telling them, and if no one is lining up for the PeopleMover, or the Country Bears, or Mr Lincoln, or even the Submarine Voyage, then they have a responsibility to their customers to replace those attractions.

    All that being said, I think that I was too quick with my assessment that the subs would be doomed by their operating costs. I absolutely 100% believe that the submarines have the highest operating costs of any attraction just from watching the number of employees standing on the dock. But rather than close the attraction, they will definitely try to recoup the costs by adding, tweaking and changing the attraction before giving up on it entirely. If the guests counts are a problem (and I would imagine they might be, since this ride usually has no wait on Saturday nights) I would suspect they would try a Dory movie overlay. The projectors should make changing the show fairly easy, and with the Kuka Arms never being realized, there is definitely space for a new effect.

    The trend lately hasn't been to replace outright but to change and tweak in little ways to attract more of the locals. they did it with Mansion, they did it with Pirates, they did it with Small World and I would imagine they would do it here too.

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    Re: Does this mean the subs are here to stay? (Finding Nemo Sequel Confirmed)

    Quote Originally Posted by xboxtravis7992 View Post
    Yeah looping in circles is fun on the monorail, plus the extra track from the loops probably increases capacity. It just would seem to be difficult though to build anything in that area around the current right of way.
    Monorails can go through mountain tunnels

    Hey question: This whole mythic story about ADA OSHA Grandfather Clause blah blah blah, why does it apply to a replacement ride for ROCKET RODS whereas the Rocket Rods themselves passed OSHA to take over what was at the time an empty PM track.

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    Re: Does this mean the subs are here to stay? (Finding Nemo Sequel Confirmed)

    Quote Originally Posted by thomaslw View Post
    also autopia isn't going anywhere. many might not like it but disney puts it in every new park (hong kong and i hear shanghai too) so obviously they love the space-sucker. given that autopia is going to suck up that plot of land, there is almost nothing that can replace the nemo ride in fit in that footprint given the autopia tracks ride on top of it, along with the monorail tracks and ppl mover tracks. the cost of refurbing that area would be astronomical, and there isn't any clear idea what would replace it.
    Autopia is a good attraction to take up a lot of space and make a park feel bigger than it actually is. That's the exact reason why Walt put it in Tomorrowland in 1955. At some point though, the cost of expanding Disneyland will no longer be justified (and I think we're already hit that point) and removing filler attractions like Autopia will make more economic sense than just expanding out and continually adding new attractions.

    It's one thing to add a new attraction and increase your operating costs, but if they have a way to increase capacity, attract new guests AND reduce their operating costs, they will do it. With the Autopia and Subs, they haven't been able to do it for a variety of reasons: the Autopia was renovated in 2000 and under a 10 year contract which meant the subs couldn't be outright replaced. So the subs were renovated in 2006. and since the Monorail wasn't going anywhere because of Nemo, they updated that too.

    The evidence has been in Disney trying to reduce the costs of that whole back corner. All of the renovations in the last ten years have been to make Autopia, Monorail, and Subs more cost effective to keep open. What better way to reduce the operating costs of that whole area than replace it with a newer attraction (or land) that can increase capacity and draw guests?

    At some point you have to just stop upgrading your computer and just buy a new one. Same deal here.

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    Re: Does this mean the subs are here to stay? (Finding Nemo Sequel Confirmed)

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    Monorails can go through mountain tunnels

    Hey question: This whole mythic story about ADA OSHA Grandfather Clause blah blah blah, why does it apply to a replacement ride for ROCKET RODS whereas the Rocket Rods themselves passed OSHA to take over what was at the time an empty PM track.
    Well don't forget the Rocket Rods opened 15 years ago. A lot can change in 15 years. I think on top of the laws changing, there has also been a change at Disney to make sure that the rides are OSHA compliant, even when the law doesn't necessarily require them to be so (Alice in Wonderland being the cast in point here). Considering what just happened with the Small World lawsuit, I would imagine there may be an insurance premium issue involved with these decisions too.

    Maybe it's just an easier legal defense to say "this attraction meets and exceeds all requirements of the law" than it is to say "we were not legally required to make it safe."

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