Page 11 of 23 FirstFirst ... 89101112131421 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 165 of 340
  1. #151

    • New Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    39

    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Some of you have touched upon this - I wasn't a party to what happened Saturday - I can however speak from experience:

    Why would they do this on a crowded Saturday?
    Because they wanted to make an example / make a statement / get Disney's attention.

    Why would they need to make an example / make a statement / get their attention?
    Most often, they do this because: a) the inspectors feel you are not respecting them, for example by blowing them off; and/or b) someone disrespectfully mouths off at them.

    There are a thousands things any business could be shut down for on any given day, but if you are showing them respect, and that you are trying in good faith to address their concerns to help keep things safe, they will work with you.

    If you have done something to lose their trust (like in my example: ignore them / mouth off to them), then sometimes they will "make a statement" to force you to respect them and remind you that behaving in a safe, professional, manner isn't optional.

    Reminder: the reason they exist and are there in the first place: the public complained and asked their elected officials in the California State House to do something, because of deaths, in more than one park (arguably because profit was being put in front of safety). New laws were written as response, and new levels of supervision on the parks is the result. The California amusement industry has no one to blame but themselves.

  2. #152

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,890

    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco21 View Post
    It is abusing power to fine them over $200,000, but you are right Disney screwed up and now has to pay for it. It just infuriates me that depending on the inspector the fine can be a couple thousand dollars up to over a million.
    That's not the way it works. The fines are set by law, not determined by the whim of the inspector, any more than traffic fines are determined by the cop who writes you the ticket.

    Disney knew full well what the regulations are and what the fines are. They decided to play it either arrogant, cheap, stupid, or all three, and they got busted, fair and square.

    There's no way to spin this story to make the cops the bad guys and the perpetrator the victim. The amusement park industry, including Disney, brought DOSH down on its collective head in 2000, and Disney brought DOSH down on its head yesterday.

    Disney's own repeated actions -- or rather, inactions -- are responsible for these ride closings, not any fantasies of vengeful DOSH inspectors running amok.


    Quote Originally Posted by RodeToad View Post
    Reminder: the reason they exist and are there in the first place: the public complained and asked their elected officials in the California State House to do something, because of deaths, in more than one park (arguably because profit was being put in front of safety). New laws were written as response, and new levels of supervision on the parks is the result. The California amusement industry has no one to blame but themselves.
    Exactly right. The California amusement park industry could have regulated itself, but chose instead to play it cheap and let the injuries mount, forcing government to intervene.

    Same story as with the auto industry, mining, construction, food processing, fisheries, and countless others.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 04-14-2013 at 12:59 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  3. #153

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,890

    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Disney says attraction closures were voluntary
    Sure they were.

    The #1 Money Machine in California voluntarily closes down their most popular thrill rides on a busy weekend, so they can catch up on some six-month-old safety violations.

    Riiiiight.

    For anyone who believes that, have I got a deal for you on swamp land in Arizona!
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  4. #154

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by RodeToad View Post
    Some of you have touched upon this - I wasn't a party to what happened Saturday - I can however speak from experience:

    Why would they do this on a crowded Saturday?
    Because they wanted to make an example / make a statement / get Disney's attention.

    Why would they need to make an example / make a statement / get their attention?
    Most often, they do this because: a) the inspectors feel you are not respecting them, for example by blowing them off; and/or b) someone disrespectfully mouths off at them.


    There are a thousands things any business could be shut down for on any given day, but if you are showing them respect, and that you are trying in good faith to address their concerns to help keep things safe, they will work with you.
    Uh, whatever manager meet with OSHA certainly wasn't the person writing the check, I guess Colglazier sort of "writes the checks" for this stuff now, but they pay him millions anyway and it doesn't come from his paycheck, don't see why anybody at Disney would "mouth off" at the inspectors.

    Very likely it was simply not paid attention to, or some beancounter read the paperwork and thought they could let it slide.

    OSHA did work with Disney, and no doubt they did an onsite inspection after the accident and mentioned they need to add handrails, etc . . . and maybe nobody was taking notes.

  5. #155

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Sure they were.

    The #1 Money Machine in California voluntarily closes down their most popular thrill rides on a busy weekend, so they can catch up on some six-month-old safety violations.

    Riiiiight.

    For anyone who believes that, have I got a deal for you on swamp land in Arizona!
    Obviously this wasn't a planned closure and it was due to OSHA's findings. Forgot if the paperwork said they needed to close these mountains immediately.

    And its not swamp land in Arizona, its ocean front property in Arizona. Swamp land is what you discover after you thought you bought a nice parcel of land. Back when they were planning Epcot a lot of the land they bought was swamp land sold as "a slice of paradise" to unwitting people who had never seen what they had bought. Knowing that they had been duped, folks were happy to unload their worthless swamp land. Ironically, that swamp land in Orlando has appreciated in value quite a bit.

  6. #156

    • New Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    39

    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Hey Chesirecat, in response to "don't see why anybody at Disney would "mouth off" at the inspectors"

    You may be surprised to know just how badly people can behave. For example, an exchange I witnessed: a tantrum an employee had, when they wanted to show the "lowly public servant" just how important of a person they are, and just how powerful their employer is, so the "lowly public servant" better just do as they say.

    Unfortunately such immature-egotistical behavior happens more than it should and makes things difficult for everyone else who has to clean up their mess.

  7. #157

    • Special Agent
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,093

    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    The #1 Money Machine in California voluntarily closes down their most popular thrill rides on a busy weekend, so they can catch up on some six-month-old safety violations.
    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Obviously this wasn't a planned closure and it was due to OSHA's findings. Forgot if the paperwork said they needed to close these mountains immediately.
    The DOSH report never mentioned anything about a closure.

    And the idea that Disney would voluntarily close an attraction to ensure its safety is not any more outrageous than the alternative:
    That DOSH found an imminent danger with the operation of the attraction as part of their inspection in November found that it wasn't corrected during the inspection on Wednesday, issued the report on Friday, but didn't close the attraction until Saturday.... just because?

    If Disney is lying about closing the attractions voluntarily, I am absolutely sure that DOSH will say otherwise. Disney knows that DOSH would say otherwise and of course would be called out on it, so why bother to try to cover it up?

  8. #158

    • Chief Troublemaker
    • Online

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Somewhere, out there
    Posts
    1,369

    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by thedude76 View Post
    Disney just needs to fix this stuff as soon as possible.

    As for all the discussion about the CMs risk, Disney needs to do what is best for their employees without cutting too many corners.
    As for all the discussion about the CMs risk, Disney needs to do what is best for their employees without cutting ANY corners




    FTFY
    "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

  9. #159

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by RodeToad View Post
    Hey Chesirecat, in response to "don't see why anybody at Disney would "mouth off" at the inspectors"

    You may be surprised to know just how badly people can behave. For example, an exchange I witnessed: a tantrum an employee had, when they wanted to show the "lowly public servant" just how important of a person they are, and just how powerful their employer is, so the "lowly public servant" better just do as they say.

    Unfortunately such immature-egotistical behavior happens more than it should and makes things difficult for everyone else who has to clean up their mess.
    I'm just saying that if I was the manager and was told by OSHA that the thing had to be fixed, I would pass on the paperwork and really wouldn't be concerned about daily ride counts and what big mountain is open. And I wouldn't care to pull a "power trip" on an inspector, be it the fire inspector or OSHA. I guess a crazy castmember might yell about how Disneyland was "Walt's park" and how dare they do their job . . . but I doubt stuff like that happens with great frequency as most castmembers and middle management wouldn't care to protest some poor decision that occurred above their pay grade.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 04-14-2013 at 02:52 PM.

  10. #160

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    The DOSH report never mentioned anything about a closure.

    And the idea that Disney would voluntarily close an attraction to ensure its safety is not any more outrageous than the alternative:
    That DOSH found an imminent danger with the operation of the attraction as part of their inspection in November found that it wasn't corrected during the inspection on Wednesday, issued the report on Friday, but didn't close the attraction until Saturday.... just because?

    If Disney is lying about closing the attractions voluntarily, I am absolutely sure that DOSH will say otherwise. Disney knows that DOSH would say otherwise and of course would be called out on it, so why bother to try to cover it up?
    I think we're arguing semantics here. If a police man pulls me over and my friends see it and ask me what happened, I could say, technically truthfully that I voluntarily pulled over and that I'm concerned about my tail light not working. (I might not add that the police officer made me aware of said deficiency, which I knew about and didn't get fixed). The only time the police can make a driver pull over in-voluntarily is when they drive them off the road or use the EMP device.

    OSHA issued citations which no doubt were a surprise, they were upset that Disney didn't follow the 2006 findings/agreement—pre-accidents on Space—and doubtlessly a tense conversation was had with somebody at TDA. Then Disney decided to act the good citizen and close down the attractions, though obviously the context is that OSHA was giving them a deadline to fix stuff and they wanted to please OSHA and show them they take this seriously as imagined what would happen if Space was closed for a year or more during some legal battle.

    OSHA might have been watching for immediate action, and the move to close Space could have been a PR move, as well as a safety move with regards to the elderly CM who got hit by a ride vehicle.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 04-14-2013 at 02:52 PM.

  11. #161

    • Quintessential Studmuffin
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    in So Cal but my mind is in disneyland!!!
    Posts
    222

    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Well, this just sucks... Gotta love the Government! Always there to protect us...

  12. #162

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    thedisneyblog has some more information:

    The citations were related a 2006 agreement to make improvements and to inspections following recent accidents such as the man who was seriously injured while cleaning the outside of Space Mountain in November 2012. The findings include simple failures like not having a charged fire extinguisher and more serious ones like failure to protect employees from unsafe ladders or lack of railings preventing a fall hazard. Serious fines of up to $70,000 for each infraction could be levied if Disneyland does not comply immediately with the requests (although appeal is also an option). Total penalties for just the Space Mountain citations could reach over $230,000.

    So, there was concern in 2006 and some abatement agreement, and the 2012 accident and inevitable investigation and findings . . . and Disney didn't fix it. Pretty amazing. They have until April 22nd to fix some of the stuff, the closure might have been to allow easier construction access and to make OSHA think they are taking this seriously now.

    It'll be interesting to see what else OSHA can find fault with. I wonder if OSHA said that if Disney agreed to "voluntarily" close Space and Soarin' then they wouldn't have to go through the process of having them shutdown by OSHA, which is more headache for OSHA.

  13. #163

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by ducktalesfan5555 View Post
    Well, this just sucks... Gotta love the Government! Always there to protect us...
    It actually looks like Disney's Risk Management department shutdown Space and Soarin', probably in consultation with Colglazier. OSHA didn't make them shut it down, per se, as they have a month to make the fixes. They could have just ordered maintenance not to change any lightbulbs, but I think they made the right decision guest-wise as who knows what might be wrong with guest areas if the outside of the mountain isn't in compliance.

    Disneyland Closes Attractions After Internal Review Related to CAL/OSHA Report | The Disney Blog

  14. #164

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by ducktalesfan5555 View Post
    Well, this just sucks... Gotta love the Government! Always there to protect us...
    It actually looks like Disney's Risk Management department shutdown Space and Soarin', probably in consultation with Colglazier. OSHA didn't make them shut it down, per se, as they have a month to make the fixes. They could have just ordered maintenance not to change any lightbulbs, but I think they made the right decision guest-wise as who knows what might be wrong with guest areas if the outside of the mountain isn't in compliance.

    Disneyland Closes Attractions After Internal Review Related to CAL/OSHA Report | The Disney Blog

    And Matterhorn will stay open while Space is worked on.

    Maybe Space will go the way of the PeopleMover and it will stay closed for months, and then years, and then somebody from WDI can tell us that because of OSHA, "Space is never coming back." Or maybe it is just a diversion to turn Space into StarWars Mountain while the fans forget about Space while it is behind tarps.

  15. #165

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Notre Dame
    Posts
    2,666

    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    It actually looks like Disney's Risk Management department shutdown Space and Soarin', probably in consultation with Colglazier. OSHA didn't make them shut it down, per se, as they have a month to make the fixes. They could have just ordered maintenance not to change any lightbulbs, but I think they made the right decision guest-wise as who knows what might be wrong with guest areas if the outside of the mountain isn't in compliance.

    Disneyland Closes Attractions After Internal Review Related to CAL/OSHA Report | The Disney Blog

    And Matterhorn will stay open while Space is worked on.

    Maybe Space will go the way of the PeopleMover and it will stay closed for months, and then years, and then somebody from WDI can tell us that because of OSHA, "Space is never coming back." Or maybe it is just a diversion to turn Space into StarWars Mountain while the fans forget about Space while it is behind tarps.
    Don't give them any ideas.

Page 11 of 23 FirstFirst ... 89101112131421 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [News] Editors Note from Al on Disneyland's Firework Cancelations
    By Dustysage in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 01-08-2012, 11:06 PM
  2. [Chat] Disneyland Attractions Closures and Refurbishments for September
    By hurricanefreak in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-19-2009, 12:36 AM
  3. Unbuilt Disneyland Attractions
    By DL_CRAZE in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-11-2005, 11:42 AM
  4. Unbuilt Disneyland Attractions
    By DL_CRAZE in forum Walt Disney World Resort
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-10-2005, 03:16 PM
  5. New Disneyland Attractions To Be Announced May 5th!!!
    By 1stStarIC2nite in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 04-01-2005, 01:18 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •