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  1. #196

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by jsmith11618 View Post
    the reason regulations and agency like OSHA exist is because in the past when they did not exist, companies didn't exactly have safe working environments.

    Companies of the past showed they could not be trusted to provide a safe and healthy work environment so regulations were put into place to force it onto companies.
    Backthen it made sense and was needed, things were very different. Today? Regulatory agencies like OSHA are a drain on resources, a waste of taxpayer money and make everything more expensive for everybody. A complete and total waste. Industry today self-regulates just fine, and it's time to shut down obsolete and wasteful agencies such as OSHA (and DOT, EPA, etc.).

  2. #197

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DOSH Report
    Disneyland Resort allowed employees of HSG Inc. to connect support line(s) and safety line(s) to unapproved anchorages when they cleaned the exterior of SpaceMountain from boatswain's chairs and controlled descent apparatus (CDA). As a result,on November 21, 2012, an employee of HSG, Inc. suffered serious injuries when his unapproved anchorage point failed causing him to fall down the exterior of SpaceMountain.
    That is actually a serious problem ^
    Yup. If you follow OSHA and Cal-DOSH rules to the letter, there are no unapproved anchorages to be used for work positioning and fall prevention like that. The contractor tied off his safety rope to a pipe, handrail, or something else not rated for use.

    And he was using a Boatswains Chair - basically a seat plank with a rope around the bottom - as his sole fall prevention. No seperate body belt or body harness tied to a separate rope and anchorage, protected by a separate descender or Self-Belay device.

    It's real easy to make a move where the rope goes slack and your rear falls out of the Boatswain's Chair, then you trip over it on the ~45-degree slope as it falls to your ankles, and then you have no fall prevention at all. Knots coming loose, or ropes going slack and sliding off the anchorage shows lack of training and/or Supervisor oversight.

    This is one of those times where "Belt and Suspenders" is called for. The Chair is Work Positioning, and the harness is solely for Fall Protection.

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  3. #198

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Industry's historical rationalizations for not needing regulation read like a litany of self-serving arrogance, mixed with hypocritical claims of concern for their workers.
    So you think the park is safer now with DOSH involved, than it was when Walt was around?

  4. #199

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Dang Disney...

    You've been flying high for almost a year now! You've managed to set attendance records, reeled in massive profits, and satisfied the needs of the greater majority of your repeat park attendees and overall fan base. You've fended off the competition even though the skeptics had you pinned to crumble at the might of Universal's creative and budgetary renaissance. You earned the right this year to sit on the throne as king of the theme parks for your bold risks, attention to detail, and you raised the bar for theme park quality.

    So it perplexes me that (with everything going for you) you would neglect to expeditiously rectify a problem that the public has little or no idea ever existed.. until now of course. I'm also confused as to why you have decided to address the public with an apparent spin campaign as if you failed to realize that the new pop-internet is a breeding ground of public opinion and general biased negativity. The last time I checked you were part of a mega media conglomerate and I would assume that you'd be keeping up on things like the internet as it is crucial for your profits (but then again you guys did come up with "Right This Minute" which is probably the worst thing I've seen in the history of TV and the internet combined so shame on me for assuming right?). I'm afraid that your attempt to soften the issue will lead to a completely unnecessary backlash of fact-checking that NBC Universal will surely love to exploit.

    So in closing, I am disappointed in your lack of ethics. But I absolutely must give you a sincere thanks for your unique method of deterring teens from Disneyland park. Case in point I was at Disneyland today and this morning I went to the wait time kiosk to see what the wait time for the Matterhorn was. Next to me were a group of teenagers. I heard one of them proclaim after seeing the posted closures "Seriously, why do they (Disney) even keep Disneyland open if the best rides are closed. The park is going to be so boring now". To that, another one said "Yea this sucks, let's go to Cars Land!". You cannot imagine the warmth in my heart as I started to look towards a day where I could go to Disneyland and not encounter groups of disrespectful self-absorbed teenagers. I look forward to your phase-2 move in this respect.

    But all kidding aside Disney.. WHY, WHY NOW????
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  5. #200

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by micromind View Post
    I agree completely.

    I've worked in heavy construction for 38 years; I've seen the industry with and without safety regulations.

    While I realize there would be some difference between construction and amusement park safety, enforcement is very likely the same. All it takes is one inspector with more power than he can handle to cause a mess like this. I've seen it happen. But shutting down a construction job is nowhere as newsworthy as shutting down major rides at DL.

    My guess is that DOSH has cited the violations at some previous time, DL was 'working on' the issues, but some hot-shot at DOSH decided to make a name for himself. And maybe get a promotion.

    You can bet that TDC lawyers are busily at work today. Shutting down stuff like this on a Saturday is not exactly standard operating procedure for DOSH, unless there was a serious hazard that developed on that day.

    If it can be proved that this shutdown was in any way malicious, DOSH could very well be in serious trouble. I hope it does come down to this; all government safety regulators are in serious need of a severe butt-kicking.

    Yes, I know my post is more of a rant than anything else, but I've been a victim of ill-written rigidly enforced safety regulation for a lot of years. If a few of these zealots were sent to prison, maybe the rest of them would concentrate on true safety, not just ramming a bunch of idiotic rules on us.
    It's attitudes like this that make it even more necessary to keep the regulations in place. I have worked as a rigger and technician up in high steel in venues all over the planet. I've also worked high as an iron worker on big towers in CA. One day there were 2 guys who had OSHA 10 Hour training, and as such were educated in the proper use of fall protection. The younger of the two was up in 40' working on beams wearing his harness but not tied-in. He fell 40' and all the fluid in his body left his body on impact. This is one incident I remember personally; I am quite sure there are tons more that I don't know about. In 2008 there were 18 deaths in the construction of CityCenter. One worker was actually cut in half.

    My point is that it's very easy to say that education and common sense alone should be enough to keep workers safe. I think you and I both know that common sense is not always common practice. Education and experience are easily ignored when your foreman is riding you to get this floor topped out by the end of the day.

    To those harping on about how they hope the buildings are not sullied by the safety systems as it would impact negatively on your experience at the park: How dare you be so callous and selfish? Is it really that much more important to you that you not see a handrail that you are willing to be so cavalier with someone else's lives?

    I have had enough experience dealing with big corporations to know that the triangle of projects is thus: fast, cheap, quality. You only get two. You want it fast and cheap? It won't be quality. You want it fast and quality? It sure as heck won't be cheap. You want it cheap and quality? It ain't gonna be fast.
    Amnesia used to be my favourite word, but I forgot it.

  6. #201

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    remember everyone: 20 years ago, if you fell and scraped your knee on the playground it was your fault. today if you fall and scrape your knee on the playground, it's the playground's fault.

  7. #202

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Soul_Meets_Body View Post
    remember everyone: 20 years ago, if you fell and scraped your knee on the playground it was your fault. today if you fall and scrape your knee on the playground, it's the playground's fault.
    Any time you enter into a workplace you have a fair and reasonable expectation not to get hurt. OSHA exists to ensure just that. Flout their regulations and pay the price.
    Amnesia used to be my favourite word, but I forgot it.

  8. #203

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Disney has been cleaning the roof of Space Mountain for years. It used to be CM's who did it, not outside contractors. I don't know what the CM's used to anchor themselves as they repelled down the roof to clean it. How or why was it different this year? Did they never have proper anchors before?
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  9. #204

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by jsmith11618 View Post
    Companies of the past showed they could not be trusted to provide a safe and healthy work environment so regulations were put into place to force it onto companies.

    Exactly! They *didn't* provide safe environments. Not bubble-wrap safe but reasonably safe would have been good enough.

    If they *had* done it on their own, we likely wouldn't have all the rules. Same as with regulating home loans, or the banks, or corporations and labor laws. If companies behaved, nobody would push for rules to make them behave. The rules get passed when something happens, to try to keep it from happening again.
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  10. #205

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Did they just decide this morning to shorten the hours of Disneyland to close at 8 and extend DCA to 9 pm this week?

  11. #206

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Exprmnt626 View Post
    It's attitudes like this that make it even more necessary to keep the regulations in place. I have worked as a rigger and technician up in high steel in venues all over the planet. I've also worked high as an iron worker on big towers in CA. One day there were 2 guys who had OSHA 10 Hour training, and as such were educated in the proper use of fall protection. The younger of the two was up in 40' working on beams wearing his harness but not tied-in. He fell 40' and all the fluid in his body left his body on impact. This is one incident I remember personally; I am quite sure there are tons more that I don't know about. In 2008 there were 18 deaths in the construction of CityCenter. One worker was actually cut in half.

    My point is that it's very easy to say that education and common sense alone should be enough to keep workers safe. I think you and I both know that common sense is not always common practice. Education and experience are easily ignored when your foreman is riding you to get this floor topped out by the end of the day.

    To those harping on about how they hope the buildings are not sullied by the safety systems as it would impact negatively on your experience at the park: How dare you be so callous and selfish? Is it really that much more important to you that you not see a handrail that you are willing to be so cavalier with someone else's lives?

    I have had enough experience dealing with big corporations to know that the triangle of projects is thus: fast, cheap, quality. You only get two. You want it fast and cheap? It won't be quality. You want it fast and quality? It sure as heck won't be cheap. You want it cheap and quality? It ain't gonna be fast.
    Agree^ You don't want somebody with a cavalier safety attitude on a construction site. Most of us have good common sense, but accidents and misjudgements do happen and its always good to have an added layer of protection by following standard safety practices. 50% of quality construction is planning and getting a bird's eye view for a project, and this includes making sure safety guidelines are followed.

    Aesthetics should be a secondary concern when safety is involved. Anyway, I doubt that railings and some anchorage points would mar Space Mountain's exterior, railings can always be themed appropriately, and anchorage points probably aren't big enough to see from the ground.

  12. #207

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett240 View Post
    Disney has been cleaning the roof of Space Mountain for years. It used to be CM's who did it, not outside contractors. I don't know what the CM's used to anchor themselves as they repelled down the roof to clean it. How or why was it different this year? Did they never have proper anchors before?
    Appears they never had proper anchors before, and the CMs who did the cleaning probably knew which "pipe" or whatever they could use that wouldn't break away. Or maybe they've been using the same pipe for years and it finally broke off.

    I'm surprised that nobody mentioned an ulterior motive for shutting down Space . . . making Kalogridis and company look bad. Colglazier just took over Disneyland Resort as president, something as serious as OSHA and Space's big deficiencies doubtlessly reached his desk, and he may well have insisted the ride by shuttered. Doing so has the side effect of making Kalogridis and Co. look bad, after all, the actual incidents happened on his watch and it is surprising Space wasn't immediately closed and upgraded safety wise on the outside. By shutting down several E-Tickets on Saturday, and keeping Space and Soarin' closed, it kinda sends a message that Disney's former management hasn't been on the ball with safety.

    Of course, this is a multi-faceted issue and a very public response to OSHA's findings were needed and Colglazier may well care about safety or be concerned enough to take drastic action.

  13. #208

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by AB Born View Post
    Did they just decide this morning to shorten the hours of Disneyland to close at 8 and extend DCA to 9 pm this week?
    No, that's Disney's "normal" closing time for Disneyland and DCA during the week when it's not summer hours, spring break hours or holiday hours. I'm going next week and have been checking the calendar and that's been on there for weeks now.

    Also, those were the hours they were open last February when I was there.

  14. #209

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    If this story is true, it's a head-scratcher. DOSH doesn't suddenly change its worker safety regulations .
    All it takes is a different inspector to show up. A lot of their inspections are based on the Inspector's interpretation, not always 100% of the code. Basically one inspector could think a problem is minor, and another could think it's major. Same fault, same violation, but one inspector thinking it's more of an issue than another.

    Funny story in California, is the fact that the state and government building don't have to conform. The State Fair (Cal Expo) is a joke when it comes to these things, the place is practically a death trap (been around the back parts many times). Also Schools, yes SCHOOLS are exempt from Local Building codes.. the only inspections they get is for Fire (alarm) and Access Compliance. Plans are checked for earthquake, but not inspected "as built" No building permits are pulled, no building inspectors show. (I worked for a school district for quite some time, you'd be blown away at how much code violations there are... electrical alone is a common issue, low-bid contractors will cut things out like conduit and panels in area that can't be "seen" with the naked eye.

  15. #210

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by wigguynyc View Post
    Oh, c'mon!!!! Is no one actually bothering to read the whole story???
    The rides were "shut down" due to "safety violations" in the "BACKSTAGE AREAS"!! Because the BACKSTAGE AREAS did NOT have SAFETY HARNESSES for workers in areas that had a drop to floor of 30 INCHES!!!! Yes! 30 INCHES... AS in LESS than 3 feet!!! For most people that's just past the height of your knees! When was the last time that you fell 30 inches and didn't have a "safety harness" and was so seriously hurt that you thought "OMG!!! I wish I had a safety harness!". California is beyond a "nanny -state" when it comes to safety of workers! (BTW, am a total Pro-Union, Worker safety guy, BUT...COME ON!!!! 30 inches from floor to safety rail requires a "safety harness"?????? Jeebus Crabs! Even my 103 year old Grandma walks without a "safety harness" with a distance greater than 30 inches to the ground!

    That's what the code is... but I am wondering if they're going to require have railings installed on any theater stage. (And hey, we all saw Kelsey Grammer take a tumble during the 50th ramp-up production).

    Just think, every school (oh wait, they're exempt), Church, etc might be in violation.

    But to be honest... you want a wailing on anything that high if there was a power loss and you took a tumble, that can be a broken ankle/leg...

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