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  1. #241

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Or should they look at the specific issue that caused the accidents to happen, give Disney a specific timeline to fix them, and then sanction them when the repairs are not made? DOSH usually gives very clear reports on what is wrong and what needs to be fixed.
    In other work environment the OSHA inspections are a really big deal with people running around like chickens with their heads cut off because they want to make sure that they pass and aren't shutdown or sanctioned. I'm sure OSHA had *something* to say about the very real accidents that happened, and no doubt it involved recommended changes.

    How could a worker fall because of a lack of an appropriate anchorage point in November, and it not be fixed yet?!?

    I'm sure OSHA filled a report and give Disney paperwork . . . a word to the wise is usually sufficient and if Disney didn't follow up then it is their fault 100%.

  2. #242

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    1. Space Mountain's maintenance bay/cast areas has fall issues, guests might potentially come near these areas in the event of a breakdown and it is unsafe for hourly castmembers. Can't run the attraction with this area closed, so it is a no-brainer that Space is closed while they arrange for railings.

    2. Soarin' has issues, some of the areas are near guests (if I remember correctly), so I can see why these two attractions are still shutdown.

    3. Nobody is "harmed" by closing Space, in the sense of being physically harmed.

    4. It ain't OSHA's responsibility to follow up . . . once again, a word to the wise is sufficient and it is just common sense that they should have fixed this stuff after November.

    5. There is the issue of culpability here, meaning that after *two* OSHA warnings, if any CM got hurt, Disney would be screwed in court. Questions would include, "Why, after a second warning for willifully not correct said deficiency did you continue to put your workers in danger?"
    Last edited by Dustysage; 04-19-2013 at 09:07 AM.

  3. #243

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by JiminyCricketFan View Post
    The assumption that Disney did everything wrong and DOSH did everything right is just hard to believe. There is no question that Disney should have worked earlier with DOSH to make sure that they were in compliance. On the other hand, DOSH did not handle this well. Instead of working with Disney to get these attractions and work areas up to code, they seemed more to react and try to be as punitive as possible.

    Disneyland employs a lot of people and is a big revenue producer for the state. A proper approach would be to work with Disneyland to get these things fixed without causing any harm to guests or to Disneyland in general. I really don't believe that Disneyland did nothing or did not have the budgets to get this fixed. The fixes sound like the dispute as to whether the rigging was appropriate or not. Certainly, there might have been room for disagreement. Again, there were ways to correct these problems without this being so hurtful to the guests or park.
    The appropriate anchorage points are just one aspect, and most likely not the most critical as the big issue is lack of railings in areas frequented by CMs, and ocassionally guests during breakdowns, on Space, and a similar situation on Soarin'. Of course, if it was just anchorage points on Space then they could end all work on the mountain until this is fixed.

    I think that somehow it was lost in translation, the needed fixes, and now Disney is inspecting their own attractions this week to see what else they missed.

    Remember the Columbia accident? They eliminated a lead position for the ride and inexperienced CMs, in combination with a cheap and inappropriately used nylon rope, lead to a death of a man and a disfigurement of his wife. Could it be that Disneyland's safety department has taken too many cuts?

  4. #244

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    DIsney knew. Read the citation report. That is why they are being fined $70,000 for each of the major violations. Poor management / communication.

  5. #245

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by JiminyCricketFan View Post
    Again there is assuming going on. So DOSH says that all this started from an incident in November. If DOSH really cared, why did they wait until April to follow up? They should have followed up in 30 days to make sure that this was corrected. I don't believe that Disney did not want to correct the issues. They have nothing to gain from that. Anyone who has dealt with government inspectors know that they can vary widely. So I don't believe that everything was as clear as you say. If it was just one ride, I might be inclined to agree that this was oversight, but to have DOSH close the attractions on a Saturday was punitive. Where is the due process? Why could that attractions gone down during the week and affect fewer guests? I never have had a state inspector come out on a Saturday to inspect things. How did they decided to inspect Disneyland on a Saturday? That is very strange and more points to an intend to do as much harm to Disney as possible.

    I think that the safety of the workers could have been addressed and not have to close any of the attractions.
    That is a really good point. If there was an immediate danger to the CM's or the Guests these rides should have been closed on the spot. The fact that it this long to close the rides tells me that the dangers were not that bad, and/or that the opinion of the inspector plays a great deal into overall decision.

  6. #246

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Just checked Disneylands refurbishment. Shows Space Mountain down through 27th of May (the furthest you can check in advance on the calendar), I guess this means till further notice, huh? Don't see Soarin listed as down at all though. Anyone been to the park today??

  7. #247

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    I see we are far, far over a certain line regarding both personal attacks in some cases, and veering widely off topic into political territory in others. That needs to stop right now. Further posts which break rules will be pruned and potential disciplinary action taken against members who disregard standards of civility and what the topic actually is. Thank you for your help and consideration of keeping the valid discussion going, while cutting away the extraneous off-topic tangents and personal slams.

  8. #248

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by JiminyCricketFan View Post
    The point is clear. Just because government says that it is going to do an action does not mean that action is warranted. I think it does not ruin my credibility but only makes my point.

    The government said that Vietnam war was fought to keep us safe from communism.

    Not everything that the government does in the name of safety is right or proper.
    Im not gonna lie this entire even is pretty boo boo(Pretty Lame) DOSH Shouldent get to pick when they start taking care of workers. If this happend it november then this shoul dhave been adressed in November. If i was Dinsey I would point this out to DOSH and tell them they if Worker sfaty was there main concern they sure arent doing a good job of it. and why are they picking on disney cause im pretty sure six flags and knotts are way worse.

  9. #249

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando Mendez View Post
    DOSH Shouldent get to pick when they start taking care of workers.
    Don't you mean Disney shouldn't get to choose when they start taking care of workers? They should have to follow the rules like everyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando Mendez View Post
    If i was Dinsey I would point this out to DOSH and tell them they if Worker sfaty was there main concern they sure arent doing a good job of it.
    Actually, it is Disney that isn't doing a good job with worker safety. DOSH seems to be doing their job just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando Mendez View Post
    and why are they picking on disney cause im pretty sure six flags and knotts are way worse.
    Source?
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  10. #250

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Pitchfork View Post
    Just checked Disneylands refurbishment. Shows Space Mountain down through 27th of May (the furthest you can check in advance on the calendar), I guess this means till further notice, huh? Don't see Soarin listed as down at all though. Anyone been to the park today??
    I was at the park today and both Space Mountain and Soarin' were closed. No word on their reopening from anyone I talked to. Matterhorn was up and running.

  11. #251

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Pitchfork View Post
    Just checked Disneylands refurbishment. Shows Space Mountain down through 27th of May (the furthest you can check in advance on the calendar), I guess this means till further notice, huh? Don't see Soarin listed as down at all though. Anyone been to the park today??
    Great. Just what I need. I'm still hoping this gets resolved by late June, because, like I said, it's when I'm going.
    My top favorite Disneyland attractions:

    1. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
    2. Pirates of the Caribbean
    3. Splash Mountain
    4. Mad Tea Party
    5. Peter Pan's Flight
    6. Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin

  12. #252

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneylandfan85 View Post
    Great. Just what I need. I'm still hoping this gets resolved by late June, because, like I said, it's when I'm going.
    I'm sure that it won't take long for them to retrofit or replace a safety system that was already in place anyway (however, I'm not sure what the deal with Soarin' is). Since we all know by now that the official Disneyland web site is run by one bridge troll and a few blind helper mice I would trust that closure notice with 0.0% confidence. The fact is that every day these attractions are down the more pressure the resort is going to get from the media and guests. And Disney cannot afford the bad press in one of their most successful seasons yet.

    I predict that Space will re-open before this weekend and Soarin' will be up a few weeks after.
    Many Bothans died to bring you these fastpasses.

  13. #253

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by G24T View Post
    I'm sure that it won't take long for them to retrofit or replace a safety system that was already in place anyway (however, I'm not sure what the deal with Soarin' is). Since we all know by now that the official Disneyland web site is run by one bridge troll and a few blind helper mice I would trust that closure notice with 0.0% confidence. The fact is that every day these attractions are down the more pressure the resort is going to get from the media and guests. And Disney cannot afford the bad press in one of their most successful seasons yet.

    I predict that Space will re-open before this weekend and Soarin' will be up a few weeks after.
    I hope you're right.
    My top favorite Disneyland attractions:

    1. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
    2. Pirates of the Caribbean
    3. Splash Mountain
    4. Mad Tea Party
    5. Peter Pan's Flight
    6. Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin

  14. #254

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    I may have missed it, but I did not read anywhere in the Citation and Notification of Penalty that DOSH forced Disney to close anything. DOSH proposed fines and required Abatement (meaning - fix it) by a certain date. It was Disney's choice to shut them down. If Disney did not meet the abatement date and continued to operate the attractions, DOSH would have, either gone to court to ask a judge to order their closure, or filed criminal charges against the company and it's executives.

    Separately, if a worker was killed by one of these hazards after being notified that they were violating both state and federal regulations (yes, OSHA has similar laws to protect workers) the company and it's executives would face manslaughter, or homicide charges in the death and the lawsuit that they would rightfully lose, would be huge.

    Workers safety trumps the inconvenience to all of the guests.

    For those that are upset, you should complain to Disney for failing to fix the hazards. The fall occurred in November, FIVE MONTHS AGO. And yet, the incompetent and negligent executives at Disney have still done NOTHING!

  15. #255

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    THe OSHA webpage that covers falls and other preventable deaths. OSHA Commonly Used Statistics

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