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  1. #76

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Oh geez Im going on the 23rd and would hate togo just to see several major attractions down and super long lines for the few thatare. It would definitely sour my opinionof Disney and make me less likely to shell out for another Disneyland vacationanytime soon, especially since it involves a plane ride and hotel reservations.
    I feel bad for people who saved up all year for a family Disneyland vacationto have this happen. Hopefullyeverything is back up soon.

    I feel bad for people who saved up all year for a family Disneyland vacation to have this happen. Hopefully everything will be up and running soon.

  2. #77

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylv View Post
    I sure hope the fines don't increase ticket prices
    I mean we'll see how long the rides are down..but how could you raise prices when 4 E ticket rides are down?

  3. #78

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    I was at the resort with my gf at opening, made our way to Space mountain where we ran into the wall of cm's explaining that there is a closure of Space mountain for unknown time. We then tried for the Iron man exhibit which wouldn't open to 11am. It was amazing watching groups of people trying to figure out what was going on that all the major attraction are closed. We finally got to talk to a cm that told myself and my gf what was really going on and that there was no idea of how long the rides would be closed. The cm even told us about the ride closures over at DCA and my gf and I were like ah oh its going to be a busy day at city hall and at the front gates. To our amazement when we walked over to DCA, City hall didn't have a huge line like we thought. Over at DCA screamer did reopen around 12 or 1 pm. In total I didn't see anyone upset, just people making alternate plans and making use of the other attractions and shows that usually go by unnoticed. Even my gf and I still had a enjoyable day without going on the Space Mountain and the other closed attractions.

  4. #79

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    I was laid off from an entertainment and theme park company that was broken up and sold piece by piece. And, there's nothing sadder than seeing something you've loved being devoured by corporate vultures. Disney fans should never complain about the Eisner years. Yes, he was Midler-happy. But, we got so much. The alternative was Marriott getting the hotels. Arvida getting the remaining undeveloped real estate, Warners getting the film library, and the theme parks being spun off into a REIT and managed by Houghton Mifflin.

  5. #80

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    ORDDU: Very sorry to hear about these attractions being shut down for violations. We're not knowledgeable enough to know how legitimate these closings were. We hope they weren't political in nature, however. Otherwise this could just be the beginning.

    ORGOCH: I say they oughtta send some a them Dosh bags ta Morva an' they'll find PLENTY a reasons ta shut things down! Startin' with the ol' Horny King's castle, fer one! That place oughtta be condemned!!!

  6. #81

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    There is zero excuse for a billion-dollar corporation that's been running theme parks for 58 years not to be up to date on all federal, state and local regulations associated with their business, and to ensure that they're in compliance.
    Right. It sounds ridiculous. Judging from what others have said here, it seems far more plausible that DOSH is just being extremely harsh and punitive for petty reasons. DOSH made a mistake in interpreting the law and when requested, Disney closed the attractions rather than fight it.

    Either the company with 58 years of experience in theme park operations made a mistake, or a government agency made a mistake. Maybe they both did?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    As mentioned above, I would imagine that the accident in 2012, in which a worker fell from Space Mountain, might have prompted them to take another look. One of the violations cited is specifically in regards to the accident.
    That would mean that DOSH made a mistake with their previous inspections for the last three years. Either they screwed up this inspection, or they screwed up the last three.

  7. #82

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Well, from the little bit news that I saw stated that it was "behind the scenes" and "for worker safety" which should mean that it will not affect the cosmetic features of any ride. (hopefully!)

  8. #83

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    That would mean that DOSH made a mistake with their previous inspections for the last three years. Either they screwed up this inspection, or they screwed up the last three.
    Or it could mean that the safety harness system maintenance declined over time, which is also entirely possible. It's also possible they had a new system that had not been inspected.

    In addition, DOSH violations are often based in human interaction and error, not just structural things that can be inspected. One of the violations specifically cites Disney employees "failing to correct" the unsafe techniques that their contractor had for cleaning the outside of Space Mountain. There's absolutely no way for a DOSH inspector to monitor what a Disney employee is doing on a day to day basis; it's up to Disney to insist that their workers follow protocol.

    The bottom line is that in the past year alone, one worker was hit by a train and another fell off the roof of Space Mountain. DOSH would be remiss if they DIDN'T investigate those lapses and try to correct whatever made them happen.
    Last edited by Malina; 04-13-2013 at 08:45 PM.

  9. #84

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    ...

    Either the company with 58 years of experience in theme park operations made a mistake, or a government agency made a mistake. Maybe they both did?



    That would mean that DOSH made a mistake with their previous inspections for the last three years. Either they screwed up this inspection, or they screwed up the last three.
    My bet is somebody at Disney forgot to pay their monthly protection money to somebody at OSHA.
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  10. #85

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    The problem on the roof of Space Mountain is serious - They don't have a permanent and Approved anchor point for the safety ropes to tie off at, and they don't have safety gates at the top of the access ladders. Reading between the lines, the contractors changing lights and cleaning the roof were tying off on an improvised anchor point (Wild guess: the Fire Dept. Wet Standpipe pipe) and it gave way or slipped off. Or they didn't know how to tie a proper climbing knot and it came loose...

    For Recreational climbing there are no "Approved Anchor Points" so when you improvise you always use *multiple* pick points when using an improvised anchor system - you tie off to three or four anchorages (big tree, multi-ton boulder, parked truck...) to one large steel ring or anchor plate, then tie all your climbing ropes to that point.

    But you can't do that in an Industrial or Residential situation - they sell anchor rings with a big strap you nail to the rafters and the ridge, then you patch the shingles over it and leave the D-ring sticking out. Or it has a plate that clamps to a steel beam inside, and a huge eye-bolt anchor point you stick through a hole in the roof and bolt to the plate.

    And that only covers one or two workers per anchor - if you have a dozen guys going off all four sides of the roof at once (like on top of the Matterhorn also) you really need to build and install a proper anchor point and get a Structural Engineer to sign off on it. You put multiple anchor-point rings around the top of a big chunk of structural heavy-wall steel tubing, cut a hole in the center of the roof, and weld (or bracket and bolt) that tube onto a main structural beam. (Oh, you might want to seal the hole in the roof.)

    The rest of the fall violation things are easy to fix, if time consuming. Install temporary railings like at "Alice" to get the ride open, and then go back and install permanent ones later.

    And here's a new Safety Violation wrinkle that hasn't come up yet, but it will - Illegal fire extinguishers all over the place.

    Disneyland has their own personnel service the fire extinguishers - and they are ALL due for scrap and replacement. It's a legal thing not a dangerous thing, so don't go marching to City Hall protesting about it - they'll get to it soon as the Anaheim Fire Marshal has a clueful person doing the annual inspections and calls them on it. And I'll guess they've got several thousand on property, better part of a Semi-Trailer full.

    The question being whether they'll make it a dramatic "You're Closed till this is corrected!" scene and shut down Disneyland entirely, or give them two weeks and watch the Executives sweat.

    All of the units I've seen in Disneyland (Built in 1954-55) and Ill bet many in older parts of the Disneyland Hotel (1955-56) are made by General Fire Extinguisher, and General went Bankrupt in 2000-01 - Amerex bought them and liquidated the assets of the company, turned all the General distributors and service companies into Amerex customers. I'm betting they bought new units for DCA, Grand Californian and Downtown Disney. Paradise Pier Hotel, I've never looked.

    You can TL-DR the rest of this post, I won't mind, it's rather esoteric.

    I used to collect Older and "Interesting" fire extinguishers for cheap, get them Hydrotested and refilled, and have them all around the house and shop. Now I have to start scrapping and replacing them with newer units...

    There have been several NFPA National Fire Code changes (instigated by Amerex, strangely enough... ) - All dry chemical units manufactured before October 1984 have to be scrapped, that's when the industry changed the labels to add the Pictograms for use. And if you want to refill them, you have to use Approved Factory Parts - powder, O-rings, hoses, etc. and have *current* service training from that manufacturer.

    (The October cut-off date is an important clue as to who instigated the change - All companies did a running change on their labels by the end of the year, but only Amerex was putting the month of manufacture on their units. Other brands you have to throw out any dated 1984 or before, even if they have the right label.)

    Even if Disney stocked up on spare parts and powder before General went under, they've all out-dated by now - You can't legally substitute generic O-rings or a different brand ABC powder, even though it would be perfectly safe. And I'll bet the service training certificates have an expiration date too, and General isn't around to hold refresher courses...

    The extinguishers will still work if they were filled properly (even with the "wrong" pieces or "expired" training) but that won't convince the Fire Marshall.

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  11. #86

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    I mean we'll see how long the rides are down..but how could you raise prices when 4 E ticket rides are down?
    The same way you raise prices during a recession. Because people will keep paying them.

    And besides, the ceo needs a raise for having to go through all the stress in dealing with the fallout of a reduced maintenance budget.

  12. #87

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Aw MAN, this really bites me hard. I can understand that everything must meet requirements, but man. I was going to Disneyland tomorrow and I decided to pop into MiceChat one last time before I retire for the night and I see this news. Bummer...

    That also means the other popular attractions will be plugged up to the brim. How many E-Ticket attractions are left from this in Disneyland alone?



    Total Tender Rides: 20
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  13. #88

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    The employee fell while cleaning the exterior of Space Mt. Right? Than that is not back stage. Where do theses anchor points,ladders, rails etc need to be installed? I'm worried that the exterior will be altered and hope it is not too visible. I doubt it, but are there any possibilities that any attractions can be closed for a year, couple of years or even permanently?

  14. #89

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Or it could mean that the safety harness system maintenance declined over time, which is also entirely possible. It's also possible they had a new system that had not been inspected.
    All of those are entirely possible yes, but would they necessitate a closing of the entire attraction? According to their own documentation, they can only issue an order prohibiting use if there is an immediate threat of death or serious injury to an employee. That order prohibiting use only applies to the area in violation (or any machinery or equipment in violation). It seems that prohibiting people on the roof of Space Mountain would satisfy the requirement to prevent the unsafe work practice.

    Of course this is assuming that the violations (if there are actually any violations) are relating to working on the roof.

    In addition, DOSH violations are often based in human interaction and error, not just structural things that can be inspected.
    And this is certainly the case with most of the violations listed in the report published yesterday. Failure to provide documents, follow procedures in place and use proper equipment are all pretty common and happen pretty frequently everywhere. Usually companies are issued a fine and try their best to get 100% compliance. None of that justifies closing an attraction though. Closing Space Mountain won't suddenly make the HVAC documents from 5 years ago appear, or magically make the contractor receive the written assurance required in 2012. These are why financial penalties exist.

    The bottom line is that in the past year alone, one worker was hit by a train and another fell off the roof of Space Mountain. DOSH would be remiss if they DIDN'T investigate those lapses and try to correct whatever made them happen.
    This highlights exactly what I was saying about a punitive action. DOSH can't change the law because someone got hurt. DOSH can't decide to shut down Soarin' Over California because someone got hurt at Space Mountain. Something is a violation or it isn't a violation and DOSH can't decide to enforce or not enforce something based on how it makes them look.

    Well I suppose they COULD decide to arbitrarily enforce the law, but that's the kind of thing that usually leads to legal trouble later on.

  15. #90

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    Re: Editors Note: Multiple Disneyland Attractions Closed by DOSH for Safety Reasons

    unfortunately, nobody has bothered to update the Disneyland website calendar for the majority of Disneyland-goers who do not follow micechat or Disney news avidly , about the rides being down indefinitely -

    and they will have no idea.Name:  unfortunate.png
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