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  1. #91

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    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    Well since Avengers made 1 Billion bucks alone....I think they made much more then 175 million off movies last year
    I think other people sortof addressed this, but just to be clear I intentionally used income, rather than revenue. I've heard movie accounting is pretty complex, so I don't pretend to understand exactly who gets the money when a movie does well. I just know what Disney releases to the shareholders/investors/government/etc.

  2. #92

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    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    while numbers may suggest this, it's true that brands are easier to build within theme parks nowadays, especially Disney. I always think of it this way--what would be more noticeable on a billboard? A picture of Lightning McQueen, or a picture of a generic pirate? Would the now-recognizable logo for Cars catch more people's attention than a generic logo for some original ride? Most likely.

    Using brands is a safer marketing strategy through and through. Though it can be argued that original rides can't hurt, it's undeniable that it's easier to market attractions based on already-established IP's. That's Disney's thinking.

    Though I love originality...an Iron Man would be pretty freaking cool. And honestly, any IP can be done right--Cars Land blows the top off any original ride in Paradise Pier. It's all about execution. Iron Man lends itself well to a top-notch theme park ride, and people obviously will line up for it.
    I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said. Clearly movie tie-ins are popular.

    I will say, though, that Paradise Pier type rides hopefully shouldn't be the alternative to movie themed rides. Rides like Haunted Mansion and Pirates created their own original stories. Even rides like Matterhorn, Thunder Mountain and Space Mountain had wonderful and consistent theming that transported you to a certain locale and time period. Clearly a movie theme would be better than an off the shelf ride with no theme at all. If Disney has convinced the public (and themselves) that those are the only two options, it would be unfortunate.

  3. #93

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    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by CASurfer65 View Post
    Nowadays, a picture of Lightning McQueen would draw the most attention. Because that's what today's generation has come to expect of Disneyland.

    I'm a child of the 60s and 70s, and back then, an original attraction advertisement would have drawn just as much attention for us as Lightning McQueen would for today's generation. We knew that Disneyland was a place for originality and uniqueness. We would have been shocked to see a Doctor Zhivago or Great Gatsby ride through. First of all, Zhivago and Gatsby were not Disney products, and they were movies.

    Being that I am a child of that period in time, I can honestly say that if I were driving down the freeway nowadays and saw a Disneyland billboard that was suggesting a new attraction that had nothing to do with a movie, I would be, first, shocked.....and then stoked.

    I'd be thinking that Disneyland was finally reverting back to its original state of mind.

    Today's generation though expects a movie tie-in (a la Universal Studios), so that's what Disney will continue to give them.

    For many of us in the older set who knew what Disney was capable of doing without buying or acquiring the product of some other studio, etc., we hope for at least a little bit of a return to the old methods of edutainment....somewhere in the park.

    Personally I'm not holding my breath though.

    I think using brands (nowadays) has become a safer marketing strategy. It also requires less originality, creativity, and imagination. The product is already there for you. All you have to do is devise an attraction around that preexisting model.

    There has been a definite paradigm shift at the park over the decades. And Disney is appealing to present day expectations. The original model has pretty much been left behind. And if that works for present day audiences and Disney, then so be it. I can see why they're doing it. May not agree with it, having seen where Disney came from, but I can see their reasoning.
    Seeing a billboard with a new and original attraction would still catch peoples attention if Disney and Imagineering put forth the effort with the attraction itself. Case in point - The Haunted Mansion.
    Exhibit A:

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    Exhibit B: Opening day:
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    Disney can do it, it's just they don't try to because movie tie-ins are "Safer" which is disheartening since Walt always took
    chances which weren't always "Safer".
    No worries, stay calm, one question. 
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  4. #94

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    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    Captain America....trains beats Villain....how is this not like Disney?

    I don't know...Marvel seems pretty Disney to me...it's about friends...family...helping people...being your self..I'd say Comic movies are model fairy tales
    That you focus on only the films shows so much of the problem. It is not where Marvel developed these characters or its legacy and to discount all of that is a serious disservice that only undermines Marvel's greatest strengths.

    Are you the one who thought Captain America made a perfect fit for a Main Street, USA overlay?

    Quote Originally Posted by swampymarsh View Post
    What if what we have now, is the Stark Expo that so many claimed was coming?
    Quote Originally Posted by mondo View Post
    So is the Iron Man exhibit pretty much Stark Expo? Is this what people thought was going to be an Innoventions overlay or an Iron Man E-ticket attraction?
    From what I understand the Stark Expo rumor that circulated last year wasn't much more than what we see now, except maybe having a broader focus on The Avengers. The Iron Man E-Ticket is a separate project that would at the least see the removal of the Carousel Theater. I think the recent news of a TRON attraction on much of the PeopleMover guideway and this exhibit mean that project is not moving forward, or at least not as soon as once anticipated.

  5. #95

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    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    That you focus on only the films shows so much of the problem. It is not where Marvel developed these characters or its legacy and to discount all of that is a serious disservice that only undermines Marvel's greatest strengths.

    Are you the one who thought Captain America made a perfect fit for a Main Street, USA overlay?



    From what I understand the Stark Expo rumor that circulated last year wasn't much more than what we see now, except maybe having a broader focus on The Avengers. The Iron Man E-Ticket is a separate project that would at the least see the removal of the Carousel Theater. I think the recent news of a TRON attraction on much of the PeopleMover guideway and this exhibit mean that project is not moving forward, or at least not as soon as once anticipated.
    I am....I think he fits just as much as Peter Pan...Mickey..or the characters from Alice and Wonderland which spend countless hours in that land

  6. #96

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    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    I guess a branded "something" is better than getting nothing new, though I would prefer to see true originality in rides and attractions.
    I pledge allegiance to the Earth, one planet, many gods, and to the universe in which she spins.

  7. #97

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    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    No, no, no... As much as I love Marvel, putting Captain America on Main Street is just not a good idea... AT ALL. No.

  8. #98

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    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmineray View Post
    No, no, no... As much as I love Marvel, putting Captain America on Main Street is just not a good idea... AT ALL. No.
    But a boy from neverland....a giant mouse and a Matter Hatter...all fit Main Street?

  9. #99

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    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    They fit better than Captain America. If he has to go somewhere, put him in Condor Flatts at DCA, like someone else here said a long time ago.

  10. #100

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    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Here's the problem here..

    This has turned into a debate over originality vs branding. There's almost no disagreement that originality is best. We all know that. The problem lies in that branding is inevitable and we would all be very surprised if the next big DL attraction isn't based on an popular franchise.

    Someone pointed out a list of popular rides that are original. Of course you're forgetting that the equally popular Indiana Jones, RSR, ToT, Star Tours, FNSV, FL dark rides, and attractions of that sort not only draw some of the longest lines in the park, but also RELY on franchises to tell their stories.

    The real question isn't about original attractions--Disney isn't going for that right now. The question is which franchise will be the basis for the next attraction? Disney is testing the waters with this Iron Man exhibit, an exhibit that's been called lame and boring, in a building that NEVER draws crowds or queues, which has so far proven popular. When Disney sees this they will undoubtedly see the potential for a Marvel attraction.

    And Marvel fits DL fine. Indiana Jones, a story about an archaeologist who fights Nazis and cults in very brutal and R-rated ways (Raiders of the Lost Ark was originally given an R-rating) can helm one of DL's most beloved rides, classic tales of superheroes saving the day with a modern twist (and a decidedly family-friendly one at that--look how many kids love superheroes) will be fine.

  11. #101

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    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    And Marvel fits DL fine. Indiana Jones, a story about an archaeologist who fights Nazis and cults in very brutal and R-rated ways (Raiders of the Lost Ark was originally given an R-rating) can helm one of DL's most beloved rides, classic tales of superheroes saving the day with a modern twist (and a decidedly family-friendly one at that--look how many kids love superheroes) will be fine.
    Yeah, but Indiana Jones is about exploration and adventure in exotic lands, which is perfectly suited for Adventureland, while Marvel is about superheroes, which is not so perfectly suited for Tomorrowland. Sure, Stark specifically may involve futuristic things, but ultimately the theme is not tomorrow but superheroes today.

  12. #102

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    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post
    Yeah, but Indiana Jones is about exploration and adventure in exotic lands, which is perfectly suited for Adventureland, while Marvel is about superheroes, which is not so perfectly suited for Tomorrowland. Sure, Stark specifically may involve futuristic things, but ultimately the theme is not tomorrow but superheroes today.
    There are no rules or black and white definitions regarding the themes of either of these properties. They are up to your own personal interpretation. If Indiana Jones is about exploration and adventure, why is Thor not about exploration and adventure (he is, after all, a demi-God in a foreign world).

    Iron Man is about technology and he is most definitely not a clear-cut superhero from today. His only power, in fact, is his innovation; in a way, you could even say he is the embodiment of Tomorrowland. Iron Man is not only innovative, but he's applying his new future technology to the good of the world.

    Now if we talk Spider-Man...yeah I'd say maybe the gritty and every-man vibe the Spider-Man stories give off are maybe a bit too realistic to fit into Disneyland (which again, is not a fact but an opinion that may not be shared by everyone, especially 100% of the population that goes to Disneyland). But the Avengers, IMO, embody many of the themes a lot of classic Disney stories do (overcoming obstacles, teamwork, fighting evil, etc.)

    And even more importantly, they are insanely popular.

    *As a sidenote, Disney did not team up with George Lucas because of his film's ideals. They teamed up with him because he made some of the biggest franchises of all time, and they lent themselves well to cool theme park attractions. A long way down the road, when Disney acquires some other third party property, people will be debating whether or not it fits and look at the inevitable Marvel ride and say 'Iron Man embodies the themes of the future and adventure, X property does or does not' and we will have come full cirlce*

  13. #103

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    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmineray View Post
    They fit better than Captain America. If he has to go somewhere, put him in Condor Flatts at DCA, like someone else here said a long time ago.
    The mad Hatter is a fiction character from a place called wonderland....how does he fit Main Street USA more?

  14. #104

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    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    But a boy from neverland....a giant mouse and a Matter Hatter...all fit Main Street?
    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    The mad Hatter is a fiction character from a place called wonderland....how does he fit Main Street USA more?
    They don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Here's the problem here..

    This has turned into a debate over originality vs branding. There's almost no disagreement that originality is best. We all know that. The problem lies in that branding is inevitable and we would all be very surprised if the next big DL attraction isn't based on an popular franchise
    Being based on a popular franchise does not preclude though into the greater story of the new medium. Splash Mountain was not placed in Fantasyland for a reason, despite having talking animals, but because it was utilizing stories culturally tied to the American South.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    There are no rules or black and white definitions regarding the themes of either of these properties. They are up to your own personal interpretation. If Indiana Jones is about exploration and adventure, why is Thor not about exploration and adventure (he is, after all, a demi-God in a foreign world).
    I really am at a loss for words if you really cannot see how much you're having to stretch.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    And even more importantly, they are insanely popular.
    This is the WORST reason. It breaks down theme parks into mere amusement parks because the concern is not on the experience itself but the public love for something else. It is crass exploitation, not creativity.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    *As a sidenote, Disney did not team up with George Lucas because of his film's ideals. They teamed up with him because he made some of the biggest franchises of all time, and they lent themselves well to cool theme park attractions. A long way down the road, when Disney acquires some other third party property, people will be debating whether or not it fits and look at the inevitable Marvel ride and say 'Iron Man embodies the themes of the future and adventure, X property does or does not' and we will have come full cirlce*
    Lucas initially did three attractions with Walt Disney Imagineering: Captain EO, Star Tours and The ExtraTERRORestrial Alien Encounter. I asked this in another thread and before, should Disney have added a Pulp Fiction and/or Jay and Silent Bob attraction?

  15. #105

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    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    I really am at a loss for words if you really cannot see how much you're having to stretch.

    It's not a stretch at all. To say Indiana Jones has themes of adventure and any of the Marvel movies don't is a stretch. And a hypocritical one at that. Besides that, themes reflected in a franchise are a matter of opinion--would a cop think
    End of Watch was as thrilling as you or I did (unless of course, you're a cop, but in any case you see my point).


    This is the WORST reason. It breaks down theme parks into mere amusement parks because the concern is not on the experience itself but the public love for something else. It is crass exploitation, not creativity.

    You're right, popularity has nothing to do with what makes a theme park attraction (sarcasm). You do realize that any theme park, even Disneyland, has to make attractions based on what is popular. Look at the time Haunted Mansion was being planned and built--those were years defined by the horror genre and a fascination with haunted houses. Similarly, the concept of Western River Expedition, the holy grail of un-built Disney experiences, was planned as a substitute for Pirates of the Caribbean because it was thought cowboys would be more popular for Eastern audiences. And of course, look at the lands in Disneyland themselves! Adventureland ties into the tiki craze/Asian exploration sensation following WWII, while Frontierland tied into the Western craze of 1950's television, and Fantasyland reflected the popularity of Walt Disney's own films. To say popularity is a bad reason to place something in a theme park is beyond absurd.


    Lucas initially did three attractions with Walt Disney Imagineering: Captain EO, Star Tours and The ExtraTERRORestrial Alien Encounter. I asked this in another thread and before, should Disney have added a Pulp Fiction and/or Jay and Silent Bob attraction?

    First off, you're comparing Pulp Fiction and Kevin Smith movies to Star Wars and Indiana Jones...really?? That right there makes me not even care to address this but I'll go ahead anyway:
    Star Wars and Indiana Jones are adventure films with sequences that lend themselves perfectly to theme park rides (there were no dogfights or car chases in Pulp Fiction). That, coupled with the fact that they made gobs of money at the box office is the reason why Disney teamed up with George Lucas. I guarantee you had Star Wars not been the hit it was, there would be no Star Tours.
    Furthermore, Alien Encounter came AFTER Star Wars/Tours so that's irrelevant. As to Captain EO, they also paired with Francis Ford Coppola--do you see any of his properties in Disneyland? No. Not to mention the fact that there was no contract for Lucas to continue working with Disney--they still had to license Indiana Jones AND Star Wars to make the rides, meaning his previous involvement with them meant nothing in their decision--if anything, it was Lucas that was sold by Disney, not the other way around.
    I addressed your points in Bold.

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