Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789
Results 121 to 127 of 127
  1. #121

    • враг народа
    • Online

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    14,164
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    I will say that I didn't propose Thor be put in Adventureland, just pointing out that yes themes are subjective. Disneyland and its themes mean something different to everyone else. Did you ever wonder why maybe that's why it's so popular?

    [...]

    Infernoman nailed it on the head IMO. This arrogant way of saying what fits or doesn't fit in a theme park built for millions of people is foolish. People protested the addition of Star Wars and Indy in the parks (albeit less vocally because the Internet wasn't around at the time). But now they're classic staple attractions. The same will happen with the addition of Marvel attractions.[
    And the example is a poor one because it does not illustrate some perceived subjectivity. The themes may resonate and be read differently, but that does not make the underlying motives subjective. Clear direction is what makes for any good creative storytelling experience. There is a reason places like Tomorrowland and studio theme parks are widely seen as being a mess, because they lack cohesion. There has been no widespread popular and/or critical acclaim for loose and messy themes. Experiences like New Orleans Square or The Wizarding World of Harry Potter are so celebrated because of their clarity and commitment to their subject matter. The attendance boom at Disney's California Adventure is centered around theme even more linked to the culture and story of California than what was there at opening in 2001. And Disney's most successful second gate is Tokyo DisneySEA, another example of theme being pushed beyond limits that people say "the normal people" do not want.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    And Disneyland does reflect popularity. Like I've already stated:
    Adventureland=tiki craze post WWII
    Frontierland=advent of the westerns with the invention of television not limited to Davy Crockett
    Fantasyland=evergrowing popularity of Disney animation (Sleeping Beauty Castle being a promotion of Walt Disney's new film)
    Tomorrowland=the growing fascination with the space race.

    It's all about what's hot at the time, and the attractions at Disneyland reflect the culture of the time they were placed. Haunted Mansion came at a time with fascination for haunted houses. Big Thunder Mountain replaced the Mine Train when roller coasters were becoming popular and Disneyland decided it needed a thrill ride. And most of all STAR TOURS, which was put in because of the popularity of the Star Wars franchise. If the addition of Star Tours had anything to do with anything other than franchise popularity, it would be a Star Trek attraction, an attraction that actually fits the theme of Tomorrowland, or they would've just left the beloved Adventures Thru Inner Space.
    You're completely discounting Disney's place at the forefront of popular culture in your comparison and missing that move into a cultural follower. You're grabbing bits and pieces of history and trying to make them fit by taking them out of their larger context.

  2. #122

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Paper St
    Posts
    1,346

    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    You're completely discounting Disney's place at the forefront of popular culture in your comparison and missing that move into a cultural follower. You're grabbing bits and pieces of history and trying to make them fit by taking them out of their larger context.
    No I'm not. At all. Disneyland itself was an exercise in pop culture. It is a FACT that everything Disneyland is based off of became popular before 1955. Therefore, you have to realize that Disneyland is a reflection of popular culture of the time.

    Star Wars was popular in the late '70's-early '80's and beyond. Disneyland put a Star Wars attraction in the '80's. If you can't see that link between a popular franchise and its introduction to Disneyland, then this discussion is utterly pointless. Even more perplexing to me is how you accept Star Tours and Indiana Jones, as well as the Twilight Zone and even the rather risque Roger Rabbit as attractions in Disneyland despite their adult and gimmicky nature. The same thing will happen with Marvel.

    The problem is nostalgia is clouding your view. It seems that everyone has kind of hated every new addition to Disneyland in the last few years, and that's because it's messing with their own personal memories of Disneyland without those additions. That's selfish though. There's another generation growing up on Marvel superheroes that will want to see it implemented in the parks (in a fitting way, such as Iron Man in Tomorrowland) the same way the first visitors to Disneyland in 1955 wanted to see Davy Crockett and Peter Pan and spacemen.

  3. #123

    • -
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Uijeongbu
    Posts
    6,609

    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmineray View Post
    I think Stark Expo would work in Tomorrowland. I'm not against that, but I am against Captain America on Main Street. I don't see why he can't go in Condor.
    This, exactly. I am a strong advocate for including Marvel. I think that whatever they include will make for a fun and exciting ride. However, I don’t want to see this included if it is going to be something out of theme, like Cap on Main Street, the Hulk in Critter Country, or the Punisher on Small World.

    However, if they work it right, I could easily see Iron Man, Ant-Man, or the Fantastic 4 as the basis for a Tomorrowland attraction.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  4. #124

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    308

    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Infernoman nailed it on the head IMO. This arrogant way of saying what fits or doesn't fit in a theme park built for millions of people is foolish. People protested the addition of Star Wars and Indy in the parks (albeit less vocally because the Internet wasn't around at the time). But now they're classic staple attractions. The same will happen with the addition of Marvel attractions.
    I don't really recall ANY complaints about Star Tours being added to Tomorrowland when it was installed. I believe we were at the tail-end of the era when anything Disney added to their parks was looked upon as an outstanding addition.

    There probably were some who lamented the loss of Adventures Through Inner Space, but there certainly weren't the hostile reactions we see so often today.

  5. #125

    • MiceChat Round-Up Crew
    • Pineapple Queen
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Tiki Juice Bar
    Posts
    5,240

    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    If anyone is interested, here's the link to my review of the addition (with pictures!)

    I like it. It's the most futuristic-looking thing in Innoventions right now, and it's fun. I only wish I could try on the armor for real, though of course that would be a logistical (and unsafe) nightmare! If there was anything Marvel-appropriate for Disneyland, I feel that this would be it.

  6. #126

    • враг народа
    • Online

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    14,164
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    No I'm not. At all. Disneyland itself was an exercise in pop culture. It is a FACT that everything Disneyland is based off of became popular before 1955. Therefore, you have to realize that Disneyland is a reflection of popular culture of the time.
    You're buying into the cynical, exploitative narrative that has long been the hallmark of Disneyland's critics that was adopted by Disney in the 1990s. Disneyland was not created to exploit and market existing franchises and trends, it was a product of passion. The cardinal realms are a personal reflection of Walt Disney's interests. The park is surrounded by a train because Walt Disney liked trains, not because live steam was a popular trend at the time. The same applies to everything else you list. Disneyland had been in development for years before construction started and even before the formal outlining of the Anaheim park. You're confusing passion with calculation, they are not the same and they do not yield the same results.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Star Wars was popular in the late '70's-early '80's and beyond. Disneyland put a Star Wars attraction in the '80's. If you can't see that link between a popular franchise and its introduction to Disneyland, then this discussion is utterly pointless.
    Even at that time, it was not the cold, calculated decision you advocate. There was still an element of passion in the decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Even more perplexing to me is how you accept Star Tours and Indiana Jones, as well as the Twilight Zone and even the rather risque Roger Rabbit as attractions in Disneyland despite their adult and gimmicky nature. The same thing will happen with Marvel.
    I have repeatedly discussed the idea of a typology of story. It doesn't have to do with trivial notions such as action or slightly risque elements. Of far more importance is the conception of the world view. Where Disneyland reassures, Marvel questions. That is a powerful legacy that should not be shoved aside to fill in Disney's demographic gap, young boys.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    The problem is nostalgia is clouding your view. It seems that everyone has kind of hated every new addition to Disneyland in the last few years, and that's because it's messing with their own personal memories of Disneyland without those additions. That's selfish though. There's another generation growing up on Marvel superheroes that will want to see it implemented in the parks (in a fitting way, such as Iron Man in Tomorrowland) the same way the first visitors to Disneyland in 1955 wanted to see Davy Crockett and Peter Pan and spacemen.
    Nostalgia? Really? I am not yet eligible to serve in the Senate of these United States. And again, there is no themed experience that has failed for being too committed to its theme. Throughout the history of the medium people have extolled the need to change for the current generation, that the notions of structure in theme are a shibboleth that must be cast aside to maintain relevance. It never works. Instead, the celebrated highlights continue to be those experiences that push for greater authenticity and immersion.

  7. #127

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Paper St
    Posts
    1,346

    Re: Iron Man Exhibit at Innoventions

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    You're buying into the cynical, exploitative narrative that has long been the hallmark of Disneyland's critics that was adopted by Disney in the 1990s. Disneyland was not created to exploit and market existing franchises and trends, it was a product of passion. The cardinal realms are a personal reflection of Walt Disney's interests. The park is surrounded by a train because Walt Disney liked trains, not because live steam was a popular trend at the time. The same applies to everything else you list. Disneyland had been in development for years before construction started and even before the formal outlining of the Anaheim park. You're confusing passion with calculation, they are not the same and they do not yield the same results.
    Lol no my friend...I'm buying into American history. Where exactly did I contradict the idea that Disneyland was a project of passion? I wholeheartedly agree. But you do realize that Walt Disney was part of society? He found the same things popular that everyone else found popular. That's why he put what he put into his park. Yes they were ideals and themes he was passionate about but it's not like Walt Disney was some hermit or hipster who wasn't part of pop culture! He liked cowboys and spacemen as much as everyone else in that decade. Why? Because it was popular. And there is nothing...NOTHING...suggesting he wouldn't also be passionate about the new superhero craze. Well, nothing besides your baseless arguments.


    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    at that time, it was not the cold, calculated decision you advocate. There was still an element of passion in the decision.


    I have repeatedly discussed the idea of a typology of story. It doesn't have to do with trivial notions such as action or slightly risque elements. Of far more importance is the conception of the world view. Where Disneyland reassures, Marvel questions. That is a powerful legacy that should not be shoved aside to fill in Disney's demographic gap, young boys.
    You're making assumptions. Or making up silly arguments because you don't like Marvel. Just keep in mind your opinion is not fact, and I will respect your opinion but that still doesn't make it law.


    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    ? Really? I am not yet eligible to serve in the Senate of these United States. And again, there is no themed experience that has failed for being too committed to its theme. Throughout the history of the medium people have extolled the need to change for the current generation, that the notions of structure in theme are a shibboleth that must be cast aside to maintain relevance. It never works. Instead, the celebrated highlights continue to be those experiences that push for greater authenticity and immersion.
    There's nothing about Marvel that will detract from Disneyland. Nothing. Disney can still make an immersive Marvel ride. It can still be cutting edge. And for all you know, many of the current Imagineers are passionate about it and want to deliver a great ride about it.

    You keep saying I'm confusing things but in reality, you are the one getting a little confused here. You think that just because something is popular and financially successful that it can't be passionate and doesn't belong in Disneyland. I've never heard anything so ridiculous. The argument that Star Tours was brought in because of passion--how do you know that's not the case with Marvel? Maybe Iger is a huge comic book nerd! Just because it made a ton of money and is a profitable franchise doesn't mean it's a cop out.

    The 1950's had cowboys and spacemen. Disneyland illustrated it.

    The 2000's have superheroes, people love them nowadays. Let Disney give those people what they want. Just because it's popular doesn't mean it can't be made with passion. Like I've pointed out to you 100 times, westerns were popular when Frontierland debuted but that doesn't make Frontierland a big sell-out. You're forgetting that Disneyland is a theme park for people to go have fun in, not some thesis on historical design.

    *P.S. FreshBakedDisney just put up a great review complete with good pictures of the Iron Man exhibit. The most interesting thing to note was the fact that the review said 1 hour and 40 minutes of the 2 hours spent in the exhibit was spent waiting in line. So yeah, I think it's safe to say there's a still a strong demand for Marvel in the parks*
    Last edited by TylerDurden; 04-18-2013 at 02:41 PM.

Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789

Similar Threads

  1. [News] AP preview for Iron Man Exhibit and extended hours of Tomorrowland April 12th
    By Experiment 626 in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 04-13-2013, 09:56 PM
  2. [News] Iron Man Takes over Innoventions!...sort of
    By ohmyjustin in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 115
    Last Post: 04-06-2013, 09:58 AM
  3. [News] Al Report: Iron Man E-Ticket Thril Ride to Replace Innoventions
    By Right Ear in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 466
    Last Post: 10-30-2012, 08:18 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •