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  1. #46

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    Re: They ever going to reopen the fort or do anything with the North end of TSI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    I'm sure there is a lot less trash, but that's not the reason they closed the Fort.
    The trash was certainly part of the reason why they shuttered the snack bar. If the snack bar was running, they might well have taken better care of FW and actually rebuilt the whole place out of fiberglass.

    Beloved attractions/restaurants might get dry rot and termites, but they certainly rebuild them.

    So, yes, the trash, logistics and safety issues doomed FW as a guest area. The termite issue forced their hand.

  2. #47

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    Re: They ever going to reopen the fort or do anything with the North end of TSI?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    The attitude at the time was that they have ODV locations all up and down NOS, and they're a heck of a lot easier to restock. Why not spend the money on opening up a couple of ODVs in NOS, or elsewhere, let folks carry their drinks (if they want), or eat/drink their snacks before they go to the island.

    The island will have much less trash tossed in relatively inaccessible places, and they won't have to have safety and logistics issues with restocking everyday.
    Yup -- the typical 'tude of Disney Corp: lower service, higher profits.
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  3. #48

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    Re: They ever going to reopen the fort or do anything with the North end of TSI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    No, they are not. But maintenance goes a long way between fixing the place and tearing it down.
    Exactly! Had they maintained FW as a counter service location, a profitable one that provided those special memories, then they would have maintained it. Here's what the conversation with the brass might have been:

    Suit #1: Fort Wilderness needs to be demolished. Do we rebuild in fiberglass like in Orlando?
    Suit #2: Nah. We already shutdown counterservice because of the trash problem, the safety issues with moving stuff across the river everyday and logistics hassle. Guests can't even go up to the second level now. Let's just put up a facade.
    Suit #1: Doesn't the Fantasmic cast still use the fort, after the island closes at dusk?
    Suit #2: We can put in some picnic tables and rebuild basic buildings, not as expensive as log buildings, to accomodate them.
    Suit #1: Whatever

  4. #49

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    Re: They ever going to reopen the fort or do anything with the North end of TSI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Yup -- the typical 'tude of Disney Corp: lower service, higher profits.
    True, (under a certain nefarious suit). The math is simple, but it misses the forest for the trees:

    FW. Let's say they sell 1,000 sodas in a day. Let's say those sodas are $4 . . . so that $4,000 dollars, plus maybe 500 bucks selling brownies. (Coke gives Disney 100% free soda, be it in bottles or via syrup. Disney has gone with bottles as they don't have to provide the carbonation, and they can sell them more quickly AND when you're walking around DL in the heat, you'll probably have to buy multiple bottled drinks vs. one big cup with ice & soda back in the day. Oh, and a bottle = one bottle and cap, a plastic cup = paper cup, lid and a straw, which are very hard for custodial to pick-up/weed out of plants. If you don't know why Disney sells bottles at ODV, then this might surprise you!).

    ODV cart. Maybe they can do 2,000 bottles of $4 Coke a day, that works out to $8,000 PLUS you don't have to schedule CMs who know how to operate the boat to get the stuff over to the island, no worries about transfer stuff from a free floating boat to land, and much less worries about trash strewn everywhere on the island, less custodial hours.

    So, basically, the bean counters figured they'd sell stuff in NOS, instead of TSI, which was a pain and while it makes Disney thousands a day, don't these guests have to get something to drink and eat at some point in the day?

    You see, Disney wasn't losing money on FW snack bar, it was making money . . . but they already make so much $$$ off of ODV, it was just a drop in the bucket and you've safety/logistics/trash issues . . . they took the easy way out.

    I think they missed the forest for the trees as having a brownie, apple juice, whatever, on TSI is a cool experience, and adds to the ambiance of the park.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 04-29-2013 at 06:40 PM.

  5. #50

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    Re: They ever going to reopen the fort or do anything with the North end of TSI?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I think they missed the forest for the trees as having a brownie, apple juice, whatever, on TSI is a cool experience, and adds to the ambiance of the park.
    Exactly right. Sitting in the shade on the bank of the river, watching the Mark Twain go by, munching on a cold pickle and cookie from the Fort Wilderness snack bar, and feeding cookie crumbs to the waterbirds. An experience that was only at Disneyland. Once upon a time.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  6. #51

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    Re: They ever going to reopen the fort or do anything with the North end of TSI?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I think they missed the forest for the trees as having a brownie, apple juice, whatever, on TSI is a cool experience, and adds to the ambiance of the park.
    You are absolutely right, especially with all the quiet spots slowly going away.
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  7. #52

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    Re: They ever going to reopen the fort or do anything with the North end of TSI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Exactly right. Sitting in the shade on the bank of the river, watching the Mark Twain go by, munching on a cold pickle and cookie from the Fort Wilderness snack bar, and feeding cookie crumbs to the waterbirds. An experience that was only at Disneyland. Once upon a time.
    Man, that sure brought back memories. We were always feeding the crumbs to the birds, though the ones that hung out at FW didn't get the fries like the ducks at Hungry Bear.

    Anyway, as a lot of folks might know, there were plans decades ago for putting in an underground walkway between NOS and TSI. They obviously didn't do it due to money issues, but aesthetically an underground tunnel made to look like a cave would have allowed for easier access to TSI, though getting the food to FW would have been another question as you've have to push the stuff north through the paths.

    With the burning settler's cabin now a much more sedate Mike Fink's cabin . . . I think that the north side of the island could yet be repurposed as a guest area, perhaps with a much larger FW or other structure . . . if they built an underground access tunnel to the area north of Frontierland, which could be used for a Frontierland expansion. And to put it bluntly, Fantasmic! cast and support crew would sure like having easier access to the island.

  8. #53

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    Re: They ever going to reopen the fort or do anything with the North end of TSI?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Baking up a ton of brownies and then selling them for dollars a piece. Profitable.
    Depends on what is in the brownies.
    "Greetings, Starfighter! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan Armada."

  9. #54

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    Re: They ever going to reopen the fort or do anything with the North end of TSI?

    Name:  IMG_1684 - Copy.JPG
Views: 107
Size:  221.9 KB Here is a photo I sneaked under the door
    Check out my work on openstreetmap.org
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  10. #55

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    Re: They ever going to reopen the fort or do anything with the North end of TSI?

    Quote Originally Posted by brianpinsky View Post
    Name:  IMG_1684 - Copy.JPG
Views: 107
Size:  221.9 KB Here is a photo I sneaked under the door
    Nice pic, pretty sad though....
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  11. #56

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    Re: They ever going to reopen the fort or do anything with the North end of TSI?

    ^^^ Yeah that's pretty much what I saw when I peeked through a crack in the gates.

    What's this about I kid getting their finger ripped off? Ive never heard about this incident?

    TSI is fun to walk around near the end of the day on a quiet day. If there aren't many boats or people around it's easy to forget where you are. Looking at the island from Google, though, I also forget how big it is... only half of it is accessible to the guest on foot.

  12. #57

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    Re: They ever going to reopen the fort or do anything with the North end of TSI?

    Quote Originally Posted by B2D View Post
    ^^^ Yeah that's pretty much what I saw when I peeked through a crack in the gates.

    What's this about I kid getting their finger ripped off? Ive never heard about this incident?

    TSI is fun to walk around near the end of the day on a quiet day. If there aren't many boats or people around it's easy to forget where you are. Looking at the island from Google, though, I also forget how big it is... only half of it is accessible to the guest on foot.
    Here is the LA Times article about the accident:
    Girl, 6, Loses Most of Finger at Disneyland - Los Angeles Times
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  13. #58

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    Re: They ever going to reopen the fort or do anything with the North end of TSI?

    I guess this is a reminder to why DLR closes rides for safety updating and some permanently. Not only did the girl lose a finger but these chilling accounts were at the end of that LA Times article

    "The incident comes in the wake of several recent accidents at Disneyland over the last few months. In September, Brandon Zucker, now 5, suffered severe brain damage after he fell out of a car on Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin. In one of its first investigations under the new law, Cal/OSHA officials blamed flawed ride design and operator error. Last month, a 15-year-old Arizona boy suffered a broken foot and leg on the "Alice in Wonderland" ride when his left foot was pinched between a guard rail and car in which he was a passenger. And about two weeks ago, a child hit his head on a tree on Tom Sawyer's Island, but did not incur serious injury, Gomez said.
    Torlakson's bill regulating amusement-park safety was introduced after a fatal accident on Christmas Eve in 1998, in which a Washington state tourist was hit by a cleat that tore loose from the Columbia Sailing Ship. His wife and a Disneyland employee were seriously injured."
    Last edited by Code101; 04-30-2013 at 03:37 PM. Reason: typo

  14. #59

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    Re: They ever going to reopen the fort or do anything with the North end of TSI?

    Did the whole fort get torn down and rebuilt or are the front gates and outer walls original? I recall hearing that the fort was originally made with real logs just like the Frontierland entrance, so if they rebuilt the whole thing I'd be curious to know if they used real logs once again.

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