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  1. #16

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    Re: Is Disney Making a Mistake With the Trackless Ride Vehicles?

    Personally, I think the trackless system is overrated. It's not the system that moves the ride, but the entire ride itself that matters. Pirates wouldn't be any better if the boats all had individual remote control motors and rudders to move and steer them as opposed to a flume with jets of water to guide them along.
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  2. #17

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    Re: Is Disney Making a Mistake With the Trackless Ride Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Personally, I think the trackless system is overrated. It's not the system that moves the ride, but the entire ride itself that matters. Pirates wouldn't be any better if the boats all had individual remote control motors and rudders to move and steer them as opposed to a flume with jets of water to guide them along.
    Agreed 100%. It's the overall experience that matters, not "the packaging".
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  3. #18

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    Re: Is Disney Making a Mistake With the Trackless Ride Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorQ9 View Post
    I was extremely disappointed when the Disneyland version of Winnie The Pooh ended up far inferior to the Tokyo Disneyland version -- and I thought that Anaheim's decision not to use the trackless ride system was a huge mistake.

    Now I learn that the Ratatouille attraction slated for Disneyland Paris will also feature the trackless ride system and that the entire ride experience will take place on a single floor of the show building.

    What a minute. The drops in the Pirates of the Caribbean are essential to that experience -- imagine POTC without them. Universal made great use of a tracked motion base in the Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey attraction by making the ride vehicles move in three dimensions.

    Disney's use of trackless ride systems (with the exception of the Hollywood Tower of Terror in Orlando) appears stuck in one plane of motion. Is this a serious failure of ride design on the part of Imagineering?
    Attachment 29767
    For starters, the POTC in WDW doesn't have any drops. There is a very, very small one, but that's it.

    And as for the tech that Tokyo is using, it does not surprise me that Japan is leading us in technology for practically anything. They are way more advanced than us. One example that I know for a fact because I have worked in the cell phone industry, is that Japan uses different frequencies than the rest of the world, and most older phones will not work over there because of it. You can view that for yourself by clicking here. And there is another thread on here that states that Iron Man 3 will be presented in 4DX format in Japan, and it will be the first one to do so. So it doesn't surprise me how tech savvy they are.
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  4. #19

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    Re: Is Disney Making a Mistake With the Trackless Ride Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by stitchfanocala View Post
    For starters, the POTC in WDW doesn't have any drops. There is a very, very small one, but that's it.
    Actually the drop at the beginning of WDW's pirates is the same size as the first drop at Disneyland's pirates. But the WDW version isn't nearly as steep as DL's so it feels smaller.

    Quote Originally Posted by stitchfanocala View Post
    And as for the tech that Tokyo is using, it does not surprise me that Japan is leading us in technology for practically anything. They are way more advanced than us. One example that I know for a fact because I have worked in the cell phone industry, is that Japan uses different frequencies than the rest of the world, and most older phones will not work over there because of it. You can view that for yourself by clicking here. And there is another thread on here that states that Iron Man 3 will be presented in 4DX format in Japan, and it will be the first one to do so. So it doesn't surprise me how tech savvy they are.
    I'm pretty sure the ride system was developed by a company outside of Japan since similar ride systems do exist.


  5. #20

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    Re: Is Disney Making a Mistake With the Trackless Ride Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Personally, I think the trackless system is overrated. It's not the system that moves the ride, but the entire ride itself that matters. Pirates wouldn't be any better if the boats all had individual remote control motors and rudders to move and steer them as opposed to a flume with jets of water to guide them along.
    It's mostly just a novel system because it is rare.

    As most rides that are themed go from scene to scene you follow a path whether you see a track or not.

    A trackless system works well when you don't need a linear flow to exprience the ride. That is why it works very well on Aquatopia in TDS.
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  6. #21

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    Re: Is Disney Making a Mistake With the Trackless Ride Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by stitchfanocala View Post
    And as for the tech that Tokyo is using, it does not surprise me that Japan is leading us in technology for practically anything. They are way more advanced than us.
    The Japanese don't develop their own attractions. Pooh's Hunny Hunt was design by Walt Disney Imagineering in California using a Disney designed ride system. Their use of the technology is a combination of the Oriental Land Company's own pride in their Resort and a contract situation in which it is to Disney's benefit to push for more spending on the Japanese parks.

  7. #22

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    Re: Is Disney Making a Mistake With the Trackless Ride Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by stitchfanocala View Post
    For starters, the POTC in WDW doesn't have any drops. There is a very, very small one, but that's it.

    And as for the tech that Tokyo is using, it does not surprise me that Japan is leading us in technology for practically anything. They are way more advanced than us. One example that I know for a fact because I have worked in the cell phone industry, is that Japan uses different frequencies than the rest of the world, and most older phones will not work over there because of it. You can view that for yourself by clicking here. And there is another thread on here that states that Iron Man 3 will be presented in 4DX format in Japan, and it will be the first one to do so. So it doesn't surprise me how tech savvy they are.
    According to Wikipedia regarding the WDW version of POTC: "Following the plunge down one waterfall, the remainder of the ride is similar to Tokyo and California. Unlike in California, however, riders do not return to ground level in their boat; instead, they exit the boat immediately after the Jack Sparrow in the treasure room scene, then take a speed ramp up to the ground floor gift shop"

  8. #23

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    Re: Is Disney Making a Mistake With the Trackless Ride Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    The Japanese don't develop their own attractions. Pooh's Hunny Hunt was design by Walt Disney Imagineering in California using a Disney designed ride system. Their use of the technology is a combination of the Oriental Land Company's own pride in their Resort and a contract situation in which it is to Disney's benefit to push for more spending on the Japanese parks.
    I guess this could explain why the U.S. parks are low priority for this kind of technology. I hope it is not just the assumption that we like the old school approach with our dark rides. I for one would love to see more advanced approaches to the dark ride in place to enhance the experience. There's something unsettling about our Pooh dark ride relying on mostly late 50s technology.
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  9. #24

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    Re: Is Disney Making a Mistake With the Trackless Ride Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    I guess this could explain why the U.S. parks are low priority for this kind of technology. I hope it is not just the assumption that we like the old school approach with our dark rides. I for one would love to see more advanced approaches to the dark ride in place to enhance the experience. There's something unsettling about our Pooh dark ride relying on mostly late 50s technology.
    Well, SeaWorld Orlando seems to think there is an interest. The system was also considered for The Little Mermaid attraction.

  10. #25

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    Re: Is Disney Making a Mistake With the Trackless Ride Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by k_peek_2000 View Post
    Actually the drop at the beginning of WDW's pirates is the same size as the first drop at Disneyland's pirates. But the WDW version isn't nearly as steep as DL's so it feels smaller.



    I'm pretty sure the ride system was developed by a company outside of Japan since similar ride systems do exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    The Japanese don't develop their own attractions. Pooh's Hunny Hunt was design by Walt Disney Imagineering in California using a Disney designed ride system. Their use of the technology is a combination of the Oriental Land Company's own pride in their Resort and a contract situation in which it is to Disney's benefit to push for more spending on the Japanese parks.
    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorQ9 View Post
    According to Wikipedia regarding the WDW version of POTC: "Following the plunge down one waterfall, the remainder of the ride is similar to Tokyo and California. Unlike in California, however, riders do not return to ground level in their boat; instead, they exit the boat immediately after the Jack Sparrow in the treasure room scene, then take a speed ramp up to the ground floor gift shop"
    Shows what I know.
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  11. #26

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    Re: Is Disney Making a Mistake With the Trackless Ride Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorQ9 View Post
    I was extremely disappointed when the Disneyland version of Winnie The Pooh ended up far inferior to the Tokyo Disneyland version -- and I thought that Anaheim's decision not to use the trackless ride system was a huge mistake.

    Now I learn that the Ratatouille attraction slated for Disneyland Paris will also feature the trackless ride system and that the entire ride experience will take place on a single floor of the show building.

    What a minute. The drops in the Pirates of the Caribbean are essential to that experience -- imagine POTC without them. Universal made great use of a tracked motion base in the Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey attraction by making the ride vehicles move in three dimensions.

    Disney's use of trackless ride systems (with the exception of the Hollywood Tower of Terror in Orlando) appears stuck in one plane of motion. Is this a serious failure of ride design on the part of Imagineering?
    I don't get this. Aren't a huge majority of disney rides presented in single story? Certainly trackless presents countless more possibilities than say, the TSMM system. And it also could opperate on multiple stories if need be (see Transformers).

    Also, you say Disney's use of trackless is stuck in one plane, but by my count 1/4 current trackless rides operate in one elevation (you give the ToT example yourself which seems to defeat your point - assuming a wire guided system could easily be adapted to do what ToT does). I would guess that over 1/4 of all of Disney's comparable rides also are that way (on a single plane).

    But the big question is, why even worry about this if elevation changes aren't necessary to tell the story?? IF elevation changes were necessary, you could just use a different ride system, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by MactheMan View Post
    How would a change in elevation improve Ratatouille, Mystic Manor, or Hunny Hunt?
    This. If it were really that important to the story that you be flying around the kitchen I'm sure they'd just make it a roller coaster (ala the rumored Monster's Inc. door coaster - there elevation change Is essential).

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Personally, I think the trackless system is overrated. It's not the system that moves the ride, but the entire ride itself that matters. Pirates wouldn't be any better if the boats all had individual remote control motors and rudders to move and steer them as opposed to a flume with jets of water to guide them along.
    I hear you on this. I think the system is cool, but certainly it isn't that amazing when its just presented on its own (Aquatopia). I think most people are clamoring for a trackless ride stateside because the two (soon to be three) other attractions utilizing this technology have themselves been so incredible. Certainly at this point it seems that the trackless tech is married with incredible ride experiences (Pooh/Mystic Manor).
    Last edited by cruise; 04-28-2013 at 10:30 PM.
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  12. #27

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    Re: Is Disney Making a Mistake With the Trackless Ride Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by cruise View Post
    I don't get this. Aren't a huge majority of disney rides presented in single story? Certainly trackless presents countless more possibilities than say, the TSMM system. And it also could opperate on multiple stories if need be (see Transformers).

    Also, you say Disney's use of trackless is stuck in one plane, but by my count 1/4 current trackless rides operate in one elevation (you give the ToT example yourself which seems to defeat your point - assuming a wire guided system could easily be adapted to do what ToT does). I would guess that over 1/4 of all of Disney's comparable rides also are that way (on a single plane).

    But the big question is, why even worry about this if elevation changes aren't necessary to tell the story?? IF elevation changes were necessary, you could just use a different ride system, right?



    This. If it were really that important to the story that you be flying around the kitchen I'm sure they'd just make it a roller coaster (ala the rumored Monster's Inc. door coaster - there elevation change Is essential).



    I hear you on this. I think the system is cool, but certainly it isn't that amazing when its just presented on its own (Aquatopia). I think most people are clamoring for a trackless ride stateside because the two (soon to be three) other attractions utilizing this technology have themselves been so incredible. Certainly at this point it seems that the trackless tech is married with incredible ride experiences (Pooh/Mystic Manor).
    The Florida ToT "defeats my point"? It supports my point! While the ride vehicles move horizontally in a single plane, the elevators lift them to various other levels of the attraction. Thus -- a "one floor" ride vehicle can be used in a multistory attraction building.

  13. #28

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    Re: Is Disney Making a Mistake With the Trackless Ride Vehicles?

    The trackless systems seems to have much more freedom to move the passengers around to different scenes. In the Mystic Manor video, two cars are released at the same time, but they follow parallel tracks that cross paths at several points. You can see different perspectives depending on the show scene. It is an entirely different experience than the single track rides that are so prevalent here at Disneyland. Yes, we do need it here. Yes, they can solve the single plane experience not unlike what Transformers did at Universal Studios with an elevator.

    Perhaps the delay in not having one at Disneyland was the initial cost. Now that the technology is done at several versions, 3 different rides, Disneyland might finally get one. I choose our own unique version of Mystic Manor.

  14. #29

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    Re: Is Disney Making a Mistake With the Trackless Ride Vehicles?

    OLC paid for their system. Japan actually outsourced from the U.S.!
    U.S. Disney Parks wouldn't pay for it. Different management, different styles, different goals.
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    Re: Is Disney Making a Mistake With the Trackless Ride Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorQ9 View Post
    The Florida ToT "defeats my point"? It supports my point! While the ride vehicles move horizontally in a single plane, the elevators lift them to various other levels of the attraction. Thus -- a "one floor" ride vehicle can be used in a multistory attraction building.
    It defeats your point because it shows how there are means to move around a ride vehicle. Why would it not be possible for the LPS system to use an elevator? Or to lock into a tracked vehicle for fast drops and turns? Part of the reason LPS vehicles operate on a plane is the mechanical requirements that would be needed for a vehicle to properly control itself on a grade. Or what happens if power is lost while on a grade?

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