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  1. #31

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    Re: Looking For Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilRocketeer View Post
    what is specifically wrong with the AP program?
    I see you're new here.
    I'm not sure there is enough room on MiceChat to list everything.

    So, long list made short: It is the cause of every problem that exists at Disneyland. Probably most at DCA as well.
    (Yes, this is hyperbole.)

    Main specific wrong: It's too good of a deal for too high-quality a product, and thus is oversold, and thus is overutilized (more than originally expected). Thus lowers the average revenue per guest. Thus, this shortfall needs to be made up with higher day-tickets (thus making it an even better deal), cheaper-quality food/souvenirs at higher prices, and cheaper maintenance schedules. Slowly, the originally-high-quality product is cheapened to the level of the average gate revenue.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  2. #32

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    Re: Looking For Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    I see you're new here.
    I'm not sure there is enough room on MiceChat to list everything.

    So, long list made short: It is the cause of every problem that exists at Disneyland. Probably most at DCA as well.
    (Yes, this is hyperbole.)

    Main specific wrong: It's too good of a deal for too high-quality a product, and thus is oversold, and thus is overutilized (more than originally expected). Thus lowers the average revenue per guest. Thus, this shortfall needs to be made up with higher day-tickets (thus making it an even better deal), cheaper-quality food/souvenirs at higher prices, and cheaper maintenance schedules. Slowly, the originally-high-quality product is cheapened to the level of the average gate revenue.
    Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.

    A much smarter solution would be to eliminate APs, lower prices on day tickets, and sell a bulk pack of tickets at a reduced rate for those who prefer to visit more often.

  3. #33

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    Re: Looking For Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilRocketeer View Post
    what is specifically wrong with the AP program?
    In my opinion, as a tourist who lives 575 miles away;

    1) The program allows APs to enter the parks whenever they want, without charge. Sure, they paid up front, but once they have the AP, they are free to flood the parks with huge crowds. This, in turn, causes tourists (like me) to visit less often.

    2) The person in line next to me may very well have effectively paid less than $1 to enter the parks. I paid close to $100. Why should I be forced to subsidize anyones entry into the parks? Especially when APs are somewhat responsible for the overcrowding that makes my visit less magical.

    3) Because of the frequent visits by some APs, they (some, not all) tend to lose respect for the overall experience. This leads to all sorts of unacceptable behavior. Like line-cutting, littering, bad language, and overall disrespect for those people who are trying to enjoy their vacation.

    4) The ownership of an AP can easily foster the ideas of privilege and elitism. Nothing good can ever come of this.

    The above is in no way meant to be against the people who have APs, they are most likely intelligent enough to see a bargain and use it to their advantage. I know that if I lived closer, I most certainly would have an AP.

    My problem isn't with the people, it's with the program in general, and even worse, the corporate attitudes behind it.

  4. #34

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    Re: Looking For Feedback

    So if the AP Program were ever totally eliminated, what is a good guess as to what it would cost me for a day at Disneyland? Would I still be able to afford a week's worth of visits at the estimated new cost?

  5. #35

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    Re: Looking For Feedback

    Back to the original question before the AP derail:

    Another issue is Sticky and Friends is still sticky.

  6. #36

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    Re: Looking For Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbaraann View Post
    So if the AP Program were ever totally eliminated, what is a good guess as to what it would cost me for a day at Disneyland? Would I still be able to afford a week's worth of visits at the estimated new cost?
    Others around here would know more than I, but I'd hazard a guess that in order to maintain current income from ticket sales plus AP sales, it'd cost maybe $50 or 60 per person.

    Again, this is more of a guess than anything else.

  7. #37

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    Re: Looking For Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by micromind View Post
    Others around here would know more than I, but I'd hazard a guess that in order to maintain current income from ticket sales plus AP sales, it'd cost maybe $50 or 60 per person.

    Again, this is more of a guess than anything else.
    That seems like a fair price, and I could swing that. I travel from Chicago, and having an AP at the moment has allowed me to make longer trips recently, and I have another one planned for the month of October.

  8. #38

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    Re: Looking For Feedback

    I would like to point out that there are really two AP programs. there is the AP program available to all and the southern California program only available to southern California zip codes.

    I know that there are many that will be upset with me saying this but I think that the southern California pass prices are too low. I know that they have more blackout days but even then I think they should be higher or eliminated. I would like to see this tried before the entire program was eliminated.

  9. #39

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    Re: Looking For Feedback

    I'm sorry, but the AP program will never go away! They are the BACKBONE of every theme park out there! They are sort of the value meal at a restaurant lol. Disney relies on them just like every theme park and I have no idea why they would cancel them at Disneyland only but leave them for all the other parks? That would be bizarre, especially because DL is a locals park unlike WDW. Its too important for them.

    Now THAT said, sure they can change it up a bit. Go like TDR, offer premium only, options for 1 park each or more for both, etc, but Aps will be around forever. Especially in a SoCal market where the other parks are basically giving them away now. Just sayin!

    As far as the OP, I think most people said it all lol so wont reguirgitate! The REAL problem is as long as Disney has skyrocket attendance they are telling themselves there doesnt need to be a HUGE change. Again people complain and thats their right but as long as they keep forking the money over, then what makes the company want to change? Especially if everyone complains on the internet but still go weekly/monthly/yearly! What is that telling a company? Yeah...

    DCA was the PERFECT example! They built a crappy, cheap park with bare bones attraction and little excitement and magic...and people stayed away! REALLY stayed away! So they finally LISTENED and started pumping in the kinds of attractions and Disney experiences people expected from the company. They spent TWICE the amount of money for the new addition than the entire park in 2001! They let the creativity slide because they thought they could get away with it and if they just threw the name 'Disney' in the marquee somewhere and it bit them in the butt!

    But we now got a better, if still not pefect, park out of it!

    DL is a bit harder because they KNOW they got peoples money lol. But yeah I dont forsee any big drastic changes that anyone is talking about here until there is a drastic change in their quarterly reports and that can only happen if people vote with their wallets. Thats really it at the end of the day.

    Would I LIKE to be proven wrong, of course! Am I...probably not lol. But it is amazing how fast Disney turns around when they geniunely see a decline in the ticket sales. HKDL will open maybe that parks best attraction this month because the public in China thought HKDL sucked at opening (and it SUCKED!!!) and stayed away in droves. NOW they are building the type of attractions and lands that shouldve been there day one! Well Toy Storyland is blight on humanity but like ABL its for the kiddies. All the other additions has been a huge plus. This is sad to say but if HKDL and DCA was packed from day one I doubt there would be any of the major additions that are there now.

    Sadly a lot of companies just start to skate by if they think they can.

    That said, the Disney parks has been pretty good for me the last 5 years or so when I was ready to give up on DLR completely a decade ago. Just sucked lol! But now, even with the problems people point to hear and I generally agree with, I still have a GREAT time! If I didnt I wouldnt be going lol. But sure as this thread proves they can ALWAYS be better!

    Hope you like working there!
    Last edited by WorldDisney; 05-01-2013 at 11:58 PM.

  10. #40

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    Re: Looking For Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by micromind View Post
    In my opinion, as a tourist who lives 575 miles away;

    1) The program allows APs to enter the parks whenever they want, without charge. Sure, they paid up front, but once they have the AP, they are free to flood the parks with huge crowds. This, in turn, causes tourists (like me) to visit less often.

    2) The person in line next to me may very well have effectively paid less than $1 to enter the parks. I paid close to $100. Why should I be forced to subsidize anyones entry into the parks? Especially when APs are somewhat responsible for the overcrowding that makes my visit less magical.

    3) Because of the frequent visits by some APs, they (some, not all) tend to lose respect for the overall experience. This leads to all sorts of unacceptable behavior. Like line-cutting, littering, bad language, and overall disrespect for those people who are trying to enjoy their vacation.

    4) The ownership of an AP can easily foster the ideas of privilege and elitism. Nothing good can ever come of this.

    The above is in no way meant to be against the people who have APs, they are most likely intelligent enough to see a bargain and use it to their advantage. I know that if I lived closer, I most certainly would have an AP.

    My problem isn't with the people, it's with the program in general, and even worse, the corporate attitudes behind it.
    Yeah, but thats nearly every theme park on the planet though! I bet your local theme park has them as well. And every issue listed isnt any different than any place I been (and I been lol). This is really not a DISNEYLAND thing so much it is a theme park thing. I use to live in Korea, which has about 7 theme parks overall and every one of them had an Ap program. Same for Japan when I lived there that has maybe around 30. I think every park in California has them as well. I even picked me up an AP once in Singapore for their premiere park called Sentosa Island. It was around $50 bucks for the year and discount on food and since I thought I would be back in Singapore within a year so why not? AWFUL park lol. Shouldve been lower. Today its now (thankfully) Universal Studios Singapore! Do they have an AP program as well for the locals? You better bloody believe it!

    So no matter WHERE you go in terms of theme parks you will find this everywhere! Operators rely on the locals all year and Aps gets them in the parks on a Tuesday in Febuary they may not get normally. I been to 30 theme parks worldwide, big and small, and I cant tell you one that didnt have an AP program. Hell I think even Nara Dreamland in Japan (the infamous Disney rip off) had them lol...and really once a decade was enough!

    I understand what people are saying, its just odd how DL is constantly talked about as if its in a bubble and the ONLY one doing it with these issues. Its not and never has been, its simply doing what every theme park operator has done for 30+ years now. When the industry as a whole will rely less on them, maybe this theme park as well, but I really doubt it will change in my lifetime at least.
    Last edited by WorldDisney; 05-02-2013 at 12:50 AM.

  11. #41

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    Re: Looking For Feedback

    Theme parks didn't exist before AP Programs were created.

    DCA would have been fixed a lot sooner if its attendance numbers were not artificially inflated by the AP Program, and its budget not combined with the rest of the resort. (Budget was combined because the revenue of the AP Program is difficult to allocate.) So, Pressler would have been fired sooner, Eisner would have been fired sooner (the amortization of DCA construction would have been accelerated, leading to lower profits), and it would have been improved by 2005.
    (Just a guess. No one has any way of knowing what would have happened. Yes, I have to disclose this.)
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  12. #42

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    Re: Looking For Feedback

    But the difference between DLR and most other theme parks is that other parks get the vast majority of their revenue from local day guests. DLR is able to draw vacationers who are willing to pay high prices for admission, all meals and snacks, and hotel for several nights. That is, until the park is so overcrowded with APers that it's no longer worth it.

    I live right in the center of CA. I've never been to any other theme park in Southern California, and I know that people don't visit theme parks up here as hotel guests for several days/nights in a row.

    They have reached a point in the AP program where they need to make a decision. Do they want to lose the tourist dollars to keep the APs?

  13. #43

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    Re: Looking For Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by micromind View Post
    Others around here would know more than I, but I'd hazard a guess that in order to maintain current income from ticket sales plus AP sales, it'd cost maybe $50 or 60 per person.

    Again, this is more of a guess than anything else.
    That's about my guess, too.
    If I were in charge, the published ticket price would be $70, but there would be plenty of off-season incentives, since there would actually be one. So, up to half off that in the off-season, which is about right, since that is when more refurbs would be scheduled. So $50-$60 on average over a calendar year.
    I would also offer 10-day tickets, unexpiring, that averaged about $35-$40 or so, with obvious blocked-out dates (4-Jul, T-Day+1, Christmas holidays).
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  14. #44

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    Re: Looking For Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by lalolovesme View Post
    They have reached a point in the AP program where they need to make a decision. Do they want to lose the tourist dollars to keep the APs?
    Making decisions is hard. Sitting at a desk over in TDA is easy. And, since the decision-maker won't be there forever, he won't have to make a forever-affecting decision.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  15. #45

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    Re: Looking For Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    Back to the original question before the AP derail:
    It's the cause of all the problems. Surely, this CM needs to know this before trying to fix anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    Another issue is Sticky and Friends is still sticky.
    It is?
    Time for another thread, I guess.
    Maybe this time with pictures.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

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