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  1. #16

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    What?
    Quote Originally Posted by F!an View Post
    Really no construction has been done for HP at USH with the exception of utility work in the backstage areas surrounding the project area. USH has been biding it's time and doing what it can while the red tape known as the Evolution Plan was being sorted out. Even now that the plan has been approved by the powers that be, work won't begin until after the Gibson closes in September (when the contract with Gibson terminates).
    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Disney's slow building is far more evident in Florida where Disney essentially controls their own destiny. Disney, mostly owing to the Reedy Creek Improvement District, used to be the king of speed in Central Florida.

    Universal Orlando Resort announced today that The Wizarding World of Harry Potter - Diagon Alley will open in 2014. Jaw: The Ride closed on January 2, 2012. That's a time frame comparable to the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train, widely said to be about a D-Ticket and definitely not a whole land plus two groundbreaking E-Ticket attractions.
    Basicaly what I am getting at is they don't just wake up one day and start building. Project plans have to be put in place and then money has to be designated to the project as well as hours. There may not be construction at USH but I guarentee they are working on it well before a break ground happens. I just think there is a lot more going on than a simple Universal builds faster than Disney.

    I appreciate the effort the Imagineers put forth in the whole experience from the show buildings to the queues and the delivery. I think that does take more hours and more money. The only area I have been to in a Universal park that really made me feel like I was immersed is WWoHP. Especially the Castle area. The two attractions that were just facelifted left a lot to be desired. Attractions like Transformers are awesome but the experence is the ride itself with not much atmosphere around it IMO. I think all that may play into the timing. I mean come on Six Flags builds coasters in a matter of months but obvisouly they are going for just thrill with nothng else.

  2. #17

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    My guess would be that Disney is kind of like the government in this way. Every widget has to be purchased, shipped, installed and tested per an overly detailed protocol. Decisions have to be vetted and ratified and egos have to be appeased. This would tend to slow everything down. Which makes it all the more amazing that the original Disneyland was built in a year. Crazy.

    Find our trip report videos on Youtube at FreshBakedDisney. Find our blog at www.freshbakeddisney.com.

  3. #18

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    There are many reasons attractions are built so slowly. Regulations are stricter, materials cost more, guest expectations are exponentially higher. Its just the way it is these days.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  4. #19

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by biggsworth View Post
    Basicaly what I am getting at is they don't just wake up one day and start building. Project plans have to be put in place and then money has to be designated to the project as well as hours. There may not be construction at USH but I guarentee they are working on it well before a break ground happens. I just think there is a lot more going on than a simple Universal builds faster than Disney.

    I appreciate the effort the Imagineers put forth in the whole experience from the show buildings to the queues and the delivery. I think that does take more hours and more money. The only area I have been to in a Universal park that really made me feel like I was immersed is WWoHP. Especially the Castle area. The two attractions that were just facelifted left a lot to be desired. Attractions like Transformers are awesome but the experence is the ride itself with not much atmosphere around it IMO. I think all that may play into the timing. I mean come on Six Flags builds coasters in a matter of months but obvisouly they are going for just thrill with nothng else.
    When it comes to Florida specifically, it really is just Disney deciding to be slower. Two E-Tickets and a land are being built in the same time it is taking Disney to build a D-Ticket roller coaster.

  5. #20

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmineray View Post
    Honestly, I don't think it's because of details and I don't think it should be taking two or two and a half years to build the Mine Train. That's me. How long did it take for Disney to build RSR?
    That ride took about 2 years as well.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  6. #21

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    That ride took about 2 years as well.
    Okay, I thought it was two years but I wasn't exactly sure. Thank you.

    RSR took two years and the Mine Train, which is apparently a kiddie coaster, is taking two years also. It just seems weird to me.
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  7. #22

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Remember that all work has to be inspected by Government employees or else you get a fine. Universal is blowing past inspection points to get a finished result sooner.
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  8. #23

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by brianpinsky View Post
    Remember that all work has to be inspected by Government employees or else you get a fine. Universal is blowing past inspection points to get a finished result sooner.
    Do you have any evidence of Universal doing that, or sources for that information?
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  9. #24

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Do you have any evidence of Universal doing that, or sources for that information?
    I second that I would find it hard to believe they would risk something like that.

  10. #25

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by brianpinsky View Post
    Remember that all work has to be inspected by Government employees or else you get a fine. Universal is blowing past inspection points to get a finished result sooner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Do you have any evidence of Universal doing that, or sources for that information?
    Quote Originally Posted by biggsworth View Post
    I second that I would find it hard to believe they would risk something like that.
    I believe the fines should be public record. It's not that Universal did not have inspections, they just didn't halt construction for each one. They paid the fine and kept moving. If there was a serious problem the project would not have been allowed to open. There is no paying to all together skip an inspection. Universal trusted their people to get it right the first time. I don't see it as being much worse than the situation at Walt Disney World where the building officials come from the Disney controlled Reedy Creek Improvement District.

  11. #26

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    While like many I don't think its fair at all to insinuate Universal attractions are unsafe simply because they are able to move quicker, I think we also have to remember that Universal had built Transformers twice before. I'm sure they were able to learn a lot along the way that helped speed things up as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by NineteenTwenty8 View Post
    So Disney, continue to take your time. I'd rather things be done RIGHT and done with care than be rushed through to open earlier.
    And if you're going to say something like this to the people who put the Universal attractions together you REALLY have to have some shred of evidence that shows they are doing something wrong.
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  12. #27

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    If we look to the past, it's clear that construction in general takes quite a bit longer now than it did sixty some years ago. When Disneyland opened, the entire park could easily be built in the span of a year, while these days it takes two plus years for a single attraction.
    The fountain of youth really is in Florida... thats why they built Walt Disney World where they did.

  13. #28

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreshBakedDisney View Post
    My guess would be that Disney is kind of like the government in this way. Every widget has to be purchased, shipped, installed and tested per an overly detailed protocol. Decisions have to be vetted and ratified and egos have to be appeased. This would tend to slow everything down. Which makes it all the more amazing that the original Disneyland was built in a year. Crazy.
    I think it's exactly that ... PLUS ....

    * Imagineering is outsourcing to more companies than ever before ... That alone will slow things down - as every step has to be carefully "signed off" by key imagineers.

    * And I also think Building Codes of today .... are a key factor. California??? EEK! Has to be one the states in the union with toughest building codes (Earthquakes). (I can't comment for Florida, I have no idea how strict they are.)

    * I think too .. as FreshBake says .... it's a bureaucratic nightmare ... as so much has to be signed off with lots of heads of equal power - Much different from the days when the co. had a single person driving decisions quickly .. without a lot of procrastination! (Walt)

    Lets compare the 1967 Tomorrowland here .. to a project today. Most of the land closed Sept 5, 1966. And in came the bulldozers. By next July (1967) .. just nine months later ..... The land on the move ... was open. Pretty incredible!
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    Dear Peoplemover Fans, If you want to see a new attraction that at least mimics the 1967 Peoplemover in a future Tomorrowland remodel, you need to write to the powers-that-be, and let them know. If you don't - Then the next time Tomorrowland is remodeled, you will see a land barren of any "Peoplemover" type attraction.

  14. #29

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Exactly right. Another contributing factor is Disney's topheavy and internally politicized management culture, in which multiple VPs get to have their own, often mutually contradictory, input on every stage of a project. Waiting for signoffs from execs whose main concern is their own pet turf, and dealing with the resulting re-work, adds large amounts of time and money to projects at the Mouse.
    I've been in the construction trades for 38 years, all hands-on, not management.

    I've worked with guys who have done work at both DL and WDW. They all say the same thing; nothing gets done mostly because of idiot executives who have no clue how to build anything, but they sure know how to rebuild it. Often several times. One suit wants it this way, the next suit wants it some other way, and no one will make a final solid decision.

    So yes, I agree, oversize egos are a large part of the slow pace.

    And also, in construction circles, it's known as 'working for the rat'.

    As to the code requirements, pretty much the same codes apply to both DL and Universal. There are slight differences because of being in different cities, but both are mostly the same.

    I think that one of the reasons (there are many others) that the original DL was built in a year is because everyone was on the same page, and any disagreements were solved by Walt, and his say was final. Present TDC doesn't have this.

  15. #30

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by micromind View Post
    I've been in the construction trades for 38 years, all hands-on, not management.

    I've worked with guys who have done work at both DL and WDW. They all say the same thing; nothing gets done mostly because of idiot executives who have no clue how to build anything, but they sure know how to rebuild it. Often several times. One suit wants it this way, the next suit wants it some other way, and no one will make a final solid decision.

    So yes, I agree, oversize egos are a large part of the slow pace.

    And also, in construction circles, it's known as 'working for the rat'.

    As to the code requirements, pretty much the same codes apply to both DL and Universal. There are slight differences because of being in different cities, but both are mostly the same.

    I think that one of the reasons (there are many others) that the original DL was built in a year is because everyone was on the same page, and any disagreements were solved by Walt, and his say was final. Present TDC doesn't have this.
    This post nails it. (No pun intended! )
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


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