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  1. #31

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Another key factor .. Is any time when the co. tries to shoehorn new attractions into old facilities. Thus ... requiring lots of time put into refitting the building to a new purpose.

    This happened with Country Bear Jamboree in Disneyland ... which became the Pooh attraction. Both theaters had raked floors. Well, that had to be level. The attraction cost some 30-35 million in 2002/03 dollars ... I bet a good chunk of that went into refitting the old building. And took plenty of time - vs. tearing it down, and having a clean slate to work with.

    Same thing for Buzz Lightyear. That was a tight fit into the former Circle-Vision space.

    If, in future projects .. that entail recycling old attractions to make new ones ... seems to take longer.

    This is where I'm glad much of DCA 2.0 worked with clean slates - Carsland have nothing to re-work with. Golden Dreams theater completely knocked-down for Little Mermaid ... and Buena Vista Street .. mostly new construction.

    I hope a future Tomorrowland involves "clean slates". The less they re-work .. the less time I think it would take to remodel the land. IF we ever get to see it happen.
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    Dear Peoplemover Fans, If you want to see a new attraction that at least mimics the 1967 Peoplemover in a future Tomorrowland remodel, you need to write to the powers-that-be, and let them know. If you don't - Then the next time Tomorrowland is remodeled, you will see a land barren of any "Peoplemover" type attraction.

  2. #32

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post
    I think it's exactly that ... PLUS ....

    * Imagineering is outsourcing to more companies than ever before ... That alone will slow things down - as every step has to be carefully "signed off" by key imagineers.

    * And I also think Building Codes of today .... are a key factor. California??? EEK! Has to be one the states in the union with toughest building codes (Earthquakes). (I can't comment for Florida, I have no idea how strict they are.)
    Universal Creative operates exclusively on the outsourcing model, so I do not think it is that big of a factor as you have a few key people who are making the decisions that are being handled by the contractors, who are themselves rather experienced. Disney still maintains a larger staff at Walt Disney Imagineering, but they've been pushing out more senior talent for cheaper people with less experience.

    Walt Disney World operates under the EPCOT Building Codes, a special code written by and for Walt Disney World. Permitting and approval is all handled essentially by Disney. Universal Orlando Resort is building bigger and faster while still jumping through the required bureaucracy of the local government.

  3. #33

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Disney does not choose to take long. You are clearing comparing the construction timelines from Orlando to those of California which are very different. California has in place a lot more strict rules than Orlando which makes ride construction much faster on the east coast. An easy comparison is the 18 month construction of Transformers in Hollywood vs. the 9th month construction of the same exact ride in Orlando. That's Universal but it's a similar situation happened with the Little Mermaid. The MK version went up slightly quicker in Orlando than it's DCA counterpart.


  4. #34

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    I think it just feels like they take forever is because we've only gotten 1 real E ticket Ride since Indy

    But I'm impressed with how fast Buena Vista street and the Fantasy fair were built
    What's more frustrating is unless Disney is planning on start construction this fall then we have like...3 years until the next E ticket will be built and 2 years for a lower type of attraction......seems like a long time to wait

  5. #35

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by micromind View Post
    I've been in the construction trades for 38 years, all hands-on, not management.

    I've worked with guys who have done work at both DL and WDW. They all say the same thing; nothing gets done mostly because of idiot executives who have no clue how to build anything, but they sure know how to rebuild it. Often several times. One suit wants it this way, the next suit wants it some other way, and no one will make a final solid decision.

    So yes, I agree, oversize egos are a large part of the slow pace.

    And also, in construction circles, it's known as 'working for the rat'.

    As to the code requirements, pretty much the same codes apply to both DL and Universal. There are slight differences because of being in different cities, but both are mostly the same.

    I think that one of the reasons (there are many others) that the original DL was built in a year is because everyone was on the same page, and any disagreements were solved by Walt, and his say was final. Present TDC doesn't have this.
    one of the best posts I've ever read on miceage!

  6. #36

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Exactly right. Another contributing factor is Disney's topheavy and internally politicized management culture, in which multiple VPs get to have their own, often mutually contradictory, input on every stage of a project. Waiting for signoffs from execs whose main concern is their own pet turf, and dealing with the resulting re-work, adds large amounts of time and money to projects at the Mouse.
    Very true. Also, along with all that, their outsourcing so much makes communication between venders and various departments cumbersome and slow. Then there's their whole design and production organization that's entangled with SAP. That system alone has causes a big drag on efficiency.

    The whole company has become so sluggish (and resulting costliness) that they aren't capable of creating the level of attractions that they had produces a few decades ago. Back when Imagineering was bereft of technology and Disney was lacking all the revenue from all their diversified acquisitions, somehow they were able to create such attractions as Spaceship Earth, Pirates of the Caribbean, Indiana Jones, etc., attractions that Disney probably couldn't achieve these days.

    Disney doesn't "take it's time to get it right", it just takes a lot of time to do things the way Disney does things NOW.

  7. #37

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Well, to be honest, I prefer that Disney puts an extra amount of TLC in the construction process. Attention to detail. Isn't that what Walt would want?

    Just saying of course, I did get a little impatient with the construction of DCA 2.0 - hated having to be shoved around through Condor Flats in an awkward walkway with too many people.

  8. #38

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    I believe the fines should be public record. It's not that Universal did not have inspections, they just didn't halt construction for each one. They paid the fine and kept moving. If there was a serious problem the project would not have been allowed to open. There is no paying to all together skip an inspection. Universal trusted their people to get it right the first time. I don't see it as being much worse than the situation at Walt Disney World where the building officials come from the Disney controlled Reedy Creek Improvement District.
    A company can't just blow by inspections and just pay a fine. If something has been done without being inspected, it most likely will have to be undone until the inspection IS completed. There may be some inspections that could be slipped without further construction really being affected when inspector did show up. A good project scheduler should be able to ensure that each inspection phase is completed on schedule so that there aren't any construction delays.

    Now, when dealing with foreign projects, like Tokyo, Hong Kong and Shanghai, all bets are off. Disney projects, having to deal with international codes, along with their penchant for having vendors follow Disney level safety requirements, can be slowed to a crawl. I don't envy anyone who has to run any of those projects.

  9. #39

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by soothseyer View Post
    Well, to be honest, I prefer that Disney puts an extra amount of TLC in the construction process. Attention to detail. Isn't that what Walt would want?

    Just saying of course, I did get a little impatient with the construction of DCA 2.0 - hated having to be shoved around through Condor Flats in an awkward walkway with too many people.
    I don't usually like getting into this Walt stuff... BUT as said before Disneyland was originally built in a year... !
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  10. #40

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    ^ Disneyland was indeed built in a year, but it had been in the vision/development stage for many years -- by a heavyduty, hands-on creative visionary who called the shots for the whole company and was unafraid to take risks.

    By comparison, what's happening these days is a game of paint-by-numbers controlled by a corporate bureaucracy of strategic planners, financiers and marketers, each more risk-averse and uncreative than the next.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  11. #41

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    There is nothing unsafe or without care about Universal's pace, nor does Disney take more time due to an overly meticulous culture. Disney chooses to spend more time building because it is cheaper that way and has less of an impact on each quarter's financial statements.
    This.

  12. #42

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post
    I think it's exactly that ... PLUS ....

    * Imagineering is outsourcing to more companies than ever before ... That alone will slow things down - as every step has to be carefully "signed off" by key imagineers.

    * And I also think Building Codes of today .... are a key factor. California??? EEK! Has to be one the states in the union with toughest building codes (Earthquakes). (I can't comment for Florida, I have no idea how strict they are.)

    * I think too .. as FreshBake says .... it's a bureaucratic nightmare ... as so much has to be signed off with lots of heads of equal power - Much different from the days when the co. had a single person driving decisions quickly .. without a lot of procrastination! (Walt)

    Lets compare the 1967 Tomorrowland here .. to a project today. Most of the land closed Sept 5, 1966. And in came the bulldozers. By next July (1967) .. just nine months later ..... The land on the move ... was open. Pretty incredible!
    Things were so much easier back then, too much red tape nowadays.
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  13. #43

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Not sure why this thread is still going, it was won on post #3.

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    There is nothing unsafe or without care about Universal's pace, nor does Disney take more time due to an overly meticulous culture. Disney chooses to spend more time building because it is cheaper that way and has less of an impact on each quarter's financial statements.
    This is 100% correct. Universal is, right now, willing to spend the $$ to pay the OT to get things done quickly. Period.

    Also, as was said, you can't compare construction time tables at Disneyland to Universal Florida due to earthquake regulations. But you CAN compare WDW and Universal FL and the amount of time it takes Disney to build things out there is ridiculous. The new Fantasyland should have been completed quite some time ago.


  14. #44

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by sir clinksalot View Post
    Not sure why this thread is still going, it was won on post #3.



    This is 100% correct. Universal is, right now, willing to spend the $$ to pay the OT to get things done quickly. Period.

    Also, as was said, you can't compare construction time tables at Disneyland to Universal Florida due to earthquake regulations. But you CAN compare WDW and Universal FL and the amount of time it takes Disney to build things out there is ridiculous. The new Fantasyland should have been completed quite some time ago.
    Thank you for this post.
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  15. #45

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    Re: Disney builds things TOO SLOW?

    I think Disney is all about marketing and anticipation. They know the opening of a new attraction or land will bring more guests to the park to see it. Why not take their time and aim to open things during peak season?

    Look at how Cars Land went. DCA was a maze for a long time and they spread things out to open the "new" DCA in time for summer. I'm sure part of it is making sure things are done correctly and giving enough time to add all the little details, but I think it's more of a marketing tool. Not to mention it gives them enough time to get in compliance with various laws of each state.
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