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  1. #31

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    Re: Disneyland Resort 3rd theme park will only be 52 acres!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    The main Receiving Warehouse behind DL is big enough (or can be expanded vertically...) for all the food, drink and consumables, and they can send small trucks over with their daily needs.
    If they expand Frontierland in Disneyland, then they need to move the Circle D back North to about where the parade building is, just south of the fireworks launching platform is, (if they want to go big), and they'll need to build a new parade building, so might as well build a bigger Distribution center that is partially underground, with a ground level floor dedicated to parades. If the 100 building gets too big then it will be seen from the Frontierland expansion.

    Agree they could truck stuff over to the third gate, but I sure hope they get permission to put in a service tunnel underneath Harbor.

    Parade Building for 3rd park . . . why not incorporate it into any berm, that may be constructed around the perimeter of said park, a parade building? I.e. cement terraces covered with dirt, then planted with trees/shrubbery, and have a parade building hidden in it.

    They could even go split level, have a combined ride/show building with the parade floats on ground level, naturally, and then put the ride above it. RSR would have had room for a lot more dark ride scenes if they put the parade building below a massive showbuilding.

  2. #32

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    Re: Disneyland Resort 3rd theme park will only be 52 acres!

    In terms of the third park, I'm hoping its an adventure park featuring Marvel, Star Wars and maybe even some Avatar. The park could be Disneys answer to Islands of Adventure.

  3. #33

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    Re: Disneyland Resort 3rd theme park will only be 52 acres!

    Quote Originally Posted by NineteenTwenty8 View Post
    In terms of the third park, I'm hoping its an adventure park featuring Marvel, Star Wars and maybe even some Avatar. The park could be Disneys answer to Islands of Adventure.
    WDI is looking at Coruscant or Tatooine for a land, and it could well make it into a third gate. There are a lot of attraction ideas for Epcot and Tomorrowland that never made it off the shelf, I think Disney will want a park which can compete with Uni in terms of thrills, and have a strong unifying theme, and science and tech seems to tie together a lot of Star Wars, Marvel and even some of the new Pixar stuff coming out.

  4. #34

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    Re: Disneyland Resort 3rd theme park will only be 52 acres!

    you can do plenty with just a little bit of land. Check out Universal Studios Singapore for proof...it's an amazing little gem.

  5. #35

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    Re: Disneyland Resort 3rd theme park will only be 52 acres!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post
    To double-check, I just did some measurements based on a Google aerial photo, and came up with approximately 79.4 acres for the land available for the potential third gate, which is in close agreement with your figure. Good catch--it seems that the map of Disney properties on which the premise of this thread is based is quite a bit off. So it's neither 52 acres nor 100 acres, but pretty close to the middle of those two, and that should be sufficient for an additional theme park.
    but it will start as a 52 acre park and then expand if they have more land!

  6. #36

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    Re: Disneyland Resort 3rd theme park will only be 52 acres!

    Quote Originally Posted by DCAfanatic View Post
    but it will start as a 52 acre park and then expand if they have more land!
    Oh, absolutely - You never land-lock yourself from the get-go, you plan vacant pads for new ride and show buildings from the outset.

    And they would make expansion plans for each of the big parcels surrounding the park as they become available - You go 'Under the Berm' and build a big Ride Building on each one. And if one site can't be bought and doesn't become available for 20 years, you can put it on another parcel.

    I'd have to spend weeks doing Title Searches, but I'm betting that the land under most of the last few hotels that surround DL and DCA, and the ones on the north side of Mickey & Friends are already owned by Disney, and the land is leased back to the Hotel operators.

    Eventually Disney will need every inch for DCA and DL expansion and squeeze every parking space they can out of the footprint of the parking structures, and they'll stop renewing the leases - the Hotel operators can buy another block further away and build new. Till then the parcels are paying their own way.

    --<< Bruce >>--
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  7. #37

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    Re: Disneyland Resort 3rd theme park will only be 52 acres!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    Oh, absolutely - You never land-lock yourself from the get-go, you plan vacant pads for new ride and show buildings from the outset.

    And they would make expansion plans for each of the big parcels surrounding the park as they become available - You go 'Under the Berm' and build a big Ride Building on each one. And if one site can't be bought and doesn't become available for 20 years, you can put it on another parcel.

    I'd have to spend weeks doing Title Searches, but I'm betting that the land under most of the last few hotels that surround DL and DCA, and the ones on the north side of Mickey & Friends are already owned by Disney, and the land is leased back to the Hotel operators.

    Eventually Disney will need every inch for DCA and DL expansion and squeeze every parking space they can out of the footprint of the parking structures, and they'll stop renewing the leases - the Hotel operators can buy another block further away and build new. Till then the parcels are paying their own way.

    --<< Bruce >>--
    Disney has secretly owned, outright, motels in the area, but there are a lot of motels which have held out for decades and will not sell, in addition to the infamous 7-11 that won't sell. Disney often uses shell corporations to hide true ownership.

  8. #38

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    Re: Disneyland Resort 3rd theme park will only be 52 acres!

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    WDI is looking at Coruscant or Tatooine for a land
    Source?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    I'd have to spend weeks doing Title Searches, but I'm betting that the land under most of the last few hotels that surround DL and DCA, and the ones on the north side of Mickey & Friends are already owned by Disney, and the land is leased back to the Hotel operators.
    It shouldn't take weeks. All I need is an address and I can get the titleholder of record online through Lexis Nexis in about five minutes. I'm sure there are free sites out there that can do the same thing.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  9. #39

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    Re: Disneyland Resort 3rd theme park will only be 52 acres!

    Quote Originally Posted by NineteenTwenty8 View Post
    In terms of the third park, I'm hoping its an adventure park featuring Marvel, Star Wars and maybe even some Avatar. The park could be Disneys answer to Islands of Adventure.
    Following the leader?

  10. #40

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    Re: Disneyland Resort 3rd theme park will only be 52 acres!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkTwain View Post
    I ran all three sites through EarthPoint for GoogleEarth. I traced all three parks' onstage areas into Google Earth polygons, and had their KML files converted into acres.


    Disneyland: 91.1390 acres (including backstage showbuildings for onstage attractions, e.g. Indiana Jones and Pirates)

    DCA: 63.5824 acres (including Cars Land and empty HPB buildings, not including Grand Californian, parking lot behind Cars Land, Paradise Pier parade building, or backstage access roads)

    Strawberry Fields/Toy Story Lot: 81.0126 acres (although this will probably be somewhat reduced by the park's own backstage areas)


    I can post screenshots for my work if anyone would like to see them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post
    To double-check, I just did some measurements based on a Google aerial photo, and came up with approximately 79.4 acres for the land available for the potential third gate, which is in close agreement with your figure. Good catch--it seems that the map of Disney properties on which the premise of this thread is based is quite a bit off. So it's neither 52 acres nor 100 acres, but pretty close to the middle of those two, and that should be sufficient for an additional theme park.
    Here is the easiest site for measuring area using Google Maps.

  11. #41

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    Re: Disneyland Resort 3rd theme park will only be 52 acres!

    DCA has the lake that seems to take up a lot of space, right? And the boardwalk, both considered wasted space... To me. Love DCA btw. I cannot wait for the 3rd gate.

  12. #42

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    Re: Disneyland Resort 3rd theme park will only be 52 acres!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post
    Following the leader?
    Universal the leader? Your joking right?

  13. #43

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    Re: Disneyland Resort 3rd theme park will only be 52 acres!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    They already have plans drawn up to build a big parking structure on the old Grand Hotel lot - now the surface "Puumba Parking Lot" and Disney recently bought the now-vacant industrial land to the north of it, that's another 9,000 - 12,000 parking spaces depending on how high they go. And they could dig a hole and go down one or two more levels underground, too.

    And there's room to the north of Mickey & Friends Structure (10,000 and change now) to add on another 4,000 - 6,000 spaces and bring the total there up to 14,000 - 16,000. Between the two, that would allow them to build out the entire K-Lot and Toy Story Lot land with the Third Theme Park.

    The condos surrounding the backside of the existing Third Theme Park land will eventually decide to move on, about the time that the new park needs to expand lands. There will always be a few people who will hear a pin drop next door and complain about the noise, and they'll lead the exodus.

    It'll be like the land that had all the cheap motels around Disneyland's Parking Lot, they bought early and thought they had a gold mine, but Disney keeps most of the gold in their own pockets. They all sold out over the years when they wanted to cash out and retire.

    They don't need a whole lot of "Backstage" space at TTP dedicated to maintenance if they make use the services already behind Disneyland for the paint and rehab shops - They mainly need a Parade Warehouse to store and charge their floats, and a bit of rehearsal space for the parade performers to prep and warm up. That could be partially underground too, build a big rehearsal hall underneath the warehouse, and offices over it.

    The main Receiving Warehouse behind DL is big enough (or can be expanded vertically...) for all the food, drink and consumables, and they can send small trucks over with their daily needs.

    --<< Bruce >>--
    Your argument that Disney has all the space it needs is correct, but I certainly wouldn't want 13,000+ more parking spaces to be built in the area. This is a residential district, for goodness sake, and the roads are packed enough as it is without the need for that many more cars (I don't think the roads could handle them anyways). Maybe the only acceptable way would be for the future Pumbaa lot to have direct on and off ramps on the 5, so that people coming and going would bypass surface streets entirely.

    I also think it's worth considering that we hope Disney gets out of the parking business entirely. It is a monopoly as currently constructed: they own the only lots around the area and can charge whatever they want. This doesn't bode well for us (it hasn't already). I would prefer the Hollywood Bowl or Staples Center models, offsite lots run by third parties in direct competition with each other. And the lots wouldn't have to be directly around the park; let's not accumulate even more cars into the Resort district - parking lots are ugly and a poor use of space.

    As for the backstage space...no one has suggested moving TDA; which, between the Frank Gehry designed building, the TDA parking structure and the TDA visitor lot, takes up a ginormous amount of space for a bunch of white-collars' who rarely set foot in the onstage or ops areas. That space could be better used to running Disneyland directly, and the suits can be moved to whatever anonymous corporate building somewhere else. Even now, when they are on site, they run the resort remotely, so what difference does it make where they are?

  14. #44

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    Re: Disneyland Resort 3rd theme park will only be 52 acres!

    Quote Originally Posted by choco choco View Post
    Your argument that Disney has all the space it needs is correct, but I certainly wouldn't want 13,000+ more parking spaces to be built in the area. This is a residential district, for goodness sake, and the roads are packed enough as it is without the need for that many more cars (I don't think the roads could handle them anyways). Maybe the only acceptable way would be for the future Pumbaa lot to have direct on and off ramps on the 5, so that people coming and going would bypass surface streets entirely.

    I also think it's worth considering that we hope Disney gets out of the parking business entirely. It is a monopoly as currently constructed: they own the only lots around the area and can charge whatever they want. This doesn't bode well for us (it hasn't already). I would prefer the Hollywood Bowl or Staples Center models, offsite lots run by third parties in direct competition with each other. And the lots wouldn't have to be directly around the park; let's not accumulate even more cars into the Resort district - parking lots are ugly and a poor use of space.

    As for the backstage space...no one has suggested moving TDA; which, between the Frank Gehry designed building, the TDA parking structure and the TDA visitor lot, takes up a ginormous amount of space for a bunch of white-collars' who rarely set foot in the onstage or ops areas. That space could be better used to running Disneyland directly, and the suits can be moved to whatever anonymous corporate building somewhere else. Even now, when they are on site, they run the resort remotely, so what difference does it make where they are?
    While what you say is all well and good, remember Disney is a business. Making money off parking is income for them. Disney would love for all the roads to be jammed packed all the time. More guests = more $

  15. #45

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    Re: Disneyland Resort 3rd theme park will only be 52 acres!

    Quote Originally Posted by choco choco View Post
    Your argument that Disney has all the space it needs is correct, but I certainly wouldn't want 13,000+ more parking spaces to be built in the area. This is a residential district, for goodness sake, and the roads are packed enough as it is without the need for that many more cars (I don't think the roads could handle them anyways). Maybe the only acceptable way would be for the future Pumbaa lot to have direct on and off ramps on the 5, so that people coming and going would bypass surface streets entirely.
    Don’t forget that the Anaheim streetcar will go right down Harbor, have a Disneyland/Convention Center stop, then head down Disney Way, easy access to Garden Walk/Pumba parking with a stop there, and then make 90 degree turn and go down S. Clement Street for a stop at the Third Gate’s entrance pavilion on Katella. (At least under one scenario).

    This should ease congestion when compared to just building a new parking structure. The streetcar will have special right of way rights around Disneyland, and Anaheim has to pay extra to hide the wires near Disneyland, lest they mar the natural beauty of the resort area, and extra money for more streetcars and cement to handle the traffic of so many street cars/users, versus just asphault.

    The streetcar will help make the third gate possible, logistics wise.

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