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  1. #46

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    To me, the Disney spokesperson's statement in the Yahoo! Shine article I quoted above makes it crystal clear: "It is unacceptable to abuse accommodations that were designed for guests with disabilities."

    Regardless of who does it, or what justifications they offer in their defense, it is unacceptable.

    Simple.

    So far as "outrage," I think it will vary from person to person, depending on how instinctive is their sense of (and sensitivity to) social injustice.
    This is where it gets complicated (or maybe I just get confused). The "guide" has a disability, supposedly. So is the abuse selling herself to people who otherwise wouldn't go with a disabled person? Or is the abuse violating the spirit of the program, which is really the way I see it?

    IF the "guide" is faking a disability, it's definitely abuse.

  2. #47

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by DrFink View Post
    I also noticed tons of people skipping the line with GAC cards who didn't seem disabled or ill in any way, but that is for another thread.
    How do you know they were "skipping the line"? When I wait for Pirates, I wait in the walkway between Pirates and Cafe Orleans. How do you know how long I have waited there? 90% of the time, I have waited LONGER than the standby line. When I wait for Space, I wait down by the exit. Again, most of the time, I wait at least as long as the standby, and sometimes considerably longer. How do you know how long I have waited? In Buzz, we wait in exactly the same line, only once we get to the front, while you get right on the ride, we go through a little door, and when a disabled party is unloaded, we get loaded. So, we wait in the same line, only we wait longer, because that is what is required.

    We don't complain about the longer wait, hey, it is how we can do Disneyland comfortably, but the misconception that we are "skipping the line" gets annoying.
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  3. #48

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    If you are willing to do this why not just lie and say you are disabled?
    Favorite Ride: Tower of Terror

  4. #49

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
    If you are willing to do this why not just lie and say you are disabled?

    But lying would be DISHONEST! I mean, that guide I hired for $130.00 an hour is really disabled and I'm PAYING them to be my guide so I can use their GAC. So, that's ok.
    "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

  5. #50

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Scum. Plain and simple. Abusing a system to satisfy their needs is pretty darn low.

    These people are missing lots of details and nuances by skipping the queue. Sometimes the queues can be nearly as entertaining as the rides themselves. If they think their time is worth that much money, per hour I mind you, then they obviously have other issues to deal with.
    At least I can be proud of that guy looking at me in the mirror.
    "Too many people grow up. That's the real trouble with the world, too many people grow up. They forget. They don't remember what it's like to be 12 years old. They patronize, they treat children as inferiors. Well I won't do that." - Walt Disney

  6. #51

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Disney vows action after report of rich hiring disabled to skip lines - CNN.com

    According to CNN, Disney is aware of the issue and is working to curb the problem.

    From a Disney spokesman:
    "It is unacceptable to abuse accommodations that were designed for guests with disabilities," spokesman Bryan Malenius told CNN Wednesday. "We are thoroughly reviewing the situation and will take appropriate steps to deter this type of activity."

  7. #52

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by loungefly97 View Post
    ...So is the abuse selling herself to people who otherwise wouldn't go with a disabled person? Or is the abuse violating the spirit of the program, which is really the way I see it?
    Both. In addition, the scam adds to the burden of people who genuinely need GACs; it does so in ways that have been described in several previous posts.

    From a cultural behaviorist view, expressions of outrage over this scam are a combination of outrage over opportunistic GAC scammers in general, plus heightened outrage at narcissistic elites secretly paying to scam the GAC system. From a viewpoint of ethics and morality, both scams are the same and have the same negative impact on people who genuinely need GACs, but in its cultural narcissism and calculated deceptiveness the latter is more egregious.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 05-15-2013 at 01:53 PM.
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  8. #53

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Both. In addition, the scam adds to the burden of people who genuinely need GACs, as has been described in several previous posts.
    Okay, so here's a scenario 1: This "guide" is not selling her services but has a group of friends that are passholders and they go to the park on a regular basis with her. She has a GAC and uses it, skipping some lines.

    Scenario 2: This "guide" does sell her services and goes to the park on a regular basis with strangers. She has a GAC and uses it, skipping some lines.

    Both scenarios assume this "guide" is actually disabled, mind you, as has been reported.

    Both scenarios make the wait longer for others with GACs. This is why I assert that it is the money and the fact that it's strangers is what is bothering people, which is really just violating the "spirit," not the actual rule--unless there is a rule against selling your "guide" services. Is there?

  9. #54

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    ^ I added a second paragraph to my post at the same time you were writing yours; I think it may address your questions.

    Other than that, I see the outraged reactions to this issue as essentially social and cultural, rather than an intellectual issue of what the rules say or the technicalities of how they were broken.

    I think the common response of outrage to this story is a very human reaction to the astonishing lack of social empathy displayed by all the participants in the scam, not because they're technically breaking some rule.

    My suggestion is that you may be more likely to find an answer to your questions on this issue if you pull back to a long shot of the forest, rather than focus on individual trees.

    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 05-15-2013 at 03:23 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

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  10. #55

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Jeez, Disney doesn't have to do provide to disabled. It's a privilege to disabled. People hiring them is abusing that privilege. Do these people know what Fastpasses are?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBFfI9j2cFk
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  11. #56

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacemountainrider View Post
    Jeez, Disney doesn't have to do provide to disabled. It's a privilege to disabled.
    Actually, Disney does have to provide reasonable accommodation to disabled guests. It's not a privilege, it's the law.
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  12. #57

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by WildeNight View Post
    We've noticed it several times since we started our frequent visits in February. Articles and things like this that go on is why I suck up my own disability (arthritis of the feet) and make sure I wear the most comfortable shoes and have my meds ready for all the walking. I would love to be able to just give my feet a break and coast around at the park, but since my disability is not very obvious, I would end up having to deal with all the evil eyes and side comments.
    I'll wait until my feet fall off.
    I have pain in my knees and shoulders along with anxiety. I suck it up when I am on my feet or in crowds. I'm not worried about people looking with the "stink eye" but until I can't function I will be walking around and standing in line.
    Merrily on our way to nowhere at all.












  13. #58

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    This business was hiring out a disabled employee (who has a GAC for her own proper use) to be a 'tour guide' for families with NO DISABLED family members (i.e. a family that would NOT qualify for a GAC) for the express and only purpose of said family using the tour guide's GAC to 'skip lines'. This is NOT in keeping with Disney's rules nor the intent of their GAC program.
    But what policy specifically is being violated? I'm pretty sure that GAC card allows a certain number of non-disabled guests to accompany the GAC holder around the park... correct?

    You'd be hard pressed to find someone who was denied a GAC, because in our litigious society it is easier to offer the GAC without question than to deny someone who may genuinely need one. I'm pretty sure that Disney is legally prohibited from requesting a Doctor's note and they certainly aren't going to hire an on site doctor to confirm diagnoses right there in City Hall. The end result is that Disney, everyday, passes out GAC cards to guests who, by your definition, would not qualify for one.

    Isn't it better to offer the GAC and accept that some folks will abuse it, rather than deny access to anyone?

    As for the intent: that's an entirely different issue. A lot of folks feel they are disabled and feel they require a GAC for assistance and who is to tell them they are wrong?

    Unless Disney wants to end up in court (again) over ADA issues, there is nothing they can do. As long as someone says they need the pass, Disney will give them the pass. the only legal recourse I can see Disney pursuing is the purchase of an outside tour guide selling basically the same service that Disney does (Disney VIP tours offer front of the line access regardless of disability or not). Since that cuts into their profits, they could definitely change their policy to disallow outside tour guides, but even that would be difficult to enforce.
    Last edited by MrLiver; 05-15-2013 at 03:48 PM.

  14. #59

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Unless Disney wants to end up in court (again) over ADA issues, there is nothing they can do.
    In fact there is much Disney can do. They can invest in restoring their employee training program, the Disney University, from the pathetic joke that it is currently to the world-class and world-renowned training program that it was before Eisner. They can develop training methods to help their employees spot obvious, deliberate GAC scams. They can effect policies and procedures that direct CMs to alert security to obvious scammers, that mandate security follow and video the scammers in the act of scamming, and that make it SOP for security to boot their butts out of the park and, if AP holders, confiscate their APs. They can tell Legal to stop hiding behind fear of lawsuits and to back their frontline CMs 100% if GAC scammers sue. They can make it a priority to crack down on GAC scammers vigorously and consistently, with the goal of getting the word-of-mouth out, particularly among locals, that such behavior absolutely will not be tolerated on Disney property. And they can hire whatever additional number of managers, training professionals, frontline CMs and security personnel it takes to accomplish that goal.

    Of course, they won't do any of it. It would mean spending money. They'd much rather let their customers and legitimate GAC users fend for themselves in the increasingly uncivil mosh pit that the DLR is becoming, while ill-trained CMs look the other way -- as the increasing number of posts like this one testify.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 05-16-2013 at 02:07 AM.
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  15. #60

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    I didn't see the website before it was changed, but surely a website advertising tours for disabled adults can advertise their understanding and use of the GAC as an important part of their service?
    Read for yourself..

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