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  1. #61

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by loungefly97 View Post
    I think this is something different, if it is a legitimately disabled person using the GAC.
    The issue highlighted by the story is someone basically using their disability to advance the product they could sell to others. It's how the system is being gamed that is the problem - not if the tour guide actually needs the GAC or not. They were using this convenient combination to game the system to make their product better. In effect, selling their GAC access... (in itself which is stupid because you don't need to buy it from them.. but that's an aside)

    Quote Originally Posted by loungefly97 View Post
    As far as the morality of it, it's a bit more complicated. A group of friends and I have APs. One of our friends just had knee surgery. Now, if we all go to Disneyland with this person and are able to bypass some lines, is that in itself immoral? No.
    But it is selfish and immoral to invite that person only because you know you can use their GAC access.

    Quote Originally Posted by loungefly97 View Post
    What if this friend didn't have an AP and wanted to go to Disneyland with us and I said, "You can come, and I will even buy your ticket because you'll help us get through some lines quicker. It'll offset some of the difficulty of maneuvering around Disneyland with a wheelchair." Is that immoral?
    Yes - it's called USING someone.. using them for your selfish gain.

    Quote Originally Posted by loungefly97 View Post
    Then we get to this situation--paying someone who is disabled to accompany you to Disneyland and in doing so help avoid some lines. Does it make a difference if I know the person? What if I paid for my friend's ticket, every meal, and handed the person some spending money? Is that immoral? Or is it only immoral when I don't know the person and I pay them an hourly wage?
    You're missing the point where the tour guide is positioning themselves and effectively promoting this convenient overlap as a way to make their business more desirable to use. It's not you just saying 'hey, I'll pick this one...' but the business also selfishly saying 'hey, if we use julie as a tour guide... we get this great convenient overlap we can use to make our product better'. Again.. using the disability for selfish gains and gaming the system.
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  2. #62

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by loungefly97 View Post
    Both scenarios make the wait longer for others with GACs. This is why I assert that it is the money and the fact that it's strangers is what is bothering people, which is really just violating the "spirit," not the actual rule--unless there is a rule against selling your "guide" services. Is there?
    Are you familiar with the term 'gaming the system'??

    And Disney frowns upon people selling anything in the park - its hard to stop when you setup the relationship outside the park.. but if you start acting like a tour guide leading groups through the parks.. you risk the wrath of the mouse. Disney doesn't want guests confusing you with official CMs and has stopped people from doing tours like this in the past.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  3. #63

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    But what policy specifically is being violated? I'm pretty sure that GAC card allows a certain number of non-disabled guests to accompany the GAC holder around the park... correct?
    Again.. gaming the system. The GAC is intended for use by your party... not random people who paid to be part of your party. Selling access to visit with you because you have a golden ticket is gaming the system for your selfish gain.

    It's really no different than walking up to the front of a long line and saying 'Who wants to cut the line? $10 and you can ride with me and my GAC to cut the line.. who wants in?'

    While the person isn't breaking a specific rule - they are abusing the intent of the privilege.. gaming it for their advantage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  4. #64

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Here's my solution, if it hasn't been already posted:

    Why not put handicap people under the rider switch policy, like adults who have children?

    Forgive my ignorance, but what is the reason for handicap people to go on rides right away?


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  5. #65

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by 14 MPH View Post
    Here's my solution, if it hasn't been already posted:

    Why not put handicap people under the rider switch policy, like adults who have children?

    Forgive my ignorance, but what is the reason for handicap people to go on rides right away?
    They don't "go on rides right away." There are about a dozen different GACs that cover everything from sun sensitivity to mobility issues. The GACs accommodate those physical limitations. The only ones who have GACs that get them to the front of every line are usually Make a Wish trip children.

    The notion that GACs provide front of line access comes from the fact that at some rides, the disabled access line - which provides wheelchair loading, etc. - is shorter than the regular line. At a lot of other rides, however, the disabled line is just as long, or even longer. For instance if you have a person who cannot transfer from a wheelchair and they want to ride Small World, they're going to be waiting however long it takes for the one wheelchair boat.

    And at newer rides there's absolutely no difference. On most if not all newer rides, including all those at DCA, the disabled go through the regular or Fastpass line. If there's any special boarding area, they splinter off right before loading.
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  6. #66

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Malina - you aren't really up to speed on how people abuse this. Why would someone who is abusing this say they can't transfer? You drop that, and the wheelchair line doesn't hold up for you. You can get in any ride vehicle. Second, the wheelchair accessible queues is why people make up conditions that give them the 'alternate entrance' stamp.. that is far more valuable than the simple wheelchair access. Basically they get to use the exit or FP entrance without waiting in the queue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  7. #67

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Honestly I don't know how the system can be fixed properly. But part of the irritation with the GAC system in general is its overuse for "minor" conditions (yes I know that to the person affected it's not "minor.") As it stands now, a huge portion of the average population would qualify for a GAC. Hip pain, back pain, anxiety, hammer toes, social phobia, sun sensitivity, claustrophobia, children with behavioral issues, arthritis, bone spurs, etc. A HUGE amount of people therefore qualify; more qualify than don't probably.

  8. #68

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Malina - you aren't really up to speed on how people abuse this. Why would someone who is abusing this say they can't transfer? You drop that, and the wheelchair line doesn't hold up for you. You can get in any ride vehicle. Second, the wheelchair accessible queues is why people make up conditions that give them the 'alternate entrance' stamp.. that is far more valuable than the simple wheelchair access. Basically they get to use the exit or FP entrance without waiting in the queue.
    Since I have a GAC and have been to the park with people who use ECVs, I am most certainly "up to speed" on this. Plus I was responding to the question about why handicapped people get to go on the rides right away - they don't most of the time.

    My GAC has an alternate entrance stamp on it because I can't do stairs with my ACL injury. I sucked it up and soldered on for as long as I could without getting a GAC but it is now necessary. It doesn't mean I get to jump the line; it means I get to use the ramps and elevators and sometimes go in through the exits - where either I join the queue or I get to wait in a handicapped queue. Go behind Splash Mountain or Space sometime and look at all the people waiting to use the alternate entrance. On Space, if you can't do the stairs for any reason you have to wait for the one rocket they can move onto the tracks, so it can be a while. RSR? It will perhaps save you five minutes since you're in the regular or Fastpass queue until you get close to the loading bay. It's not an immediate front of line pass and anyone who thinks so really doesn't understand how it works.

    The ONLY rides where the alternate entrances are faster than Fastpass in general are the ones in Fantasyland, Star Tours and perhaps the Jungle Cruise - and even that is changing. Oh, and with a GAC like mine, none of those rides have steps, so I don't need or have permission to use the alternate entrances for any of them.

    So how does this work with this tour business? I don't know. Since the rides in Fantasyland have shorter GAC queues, and this tour markets to children, maybe that explains it. Maybe WDW's set up is drastically different from DLR's. Who knows.
    Last edited by Malina; 05-15-2013 at 10:57 PM.
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  9. #69

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    The ONLY rides where the alternate entrances are faster than Fastpass in general are the ones in Fantasyland, Star Tours and perhaps the Jungle Cruise - and even that is changing. Oh, and with a GAC like mine, none of those rides have steps, so I don't need or have permission to use the alternate entrances for any of them.
    As someone who does use the alternative entrance for Star Tours, it is NOT one of the ones that is shorter. If you are in a wheelchair, you use the regular queue and they divert you. If you are using an ECV or a service dog, you go to the CM at the entrance, and they give you a ticket with a time to come back equal to the current wait time. So, you get a ticket with an hour wait, and then you approach the exit, and queue up there. When we get there, it is usually a 10-20 minute wait there before boarding.

    Be aware on busy days, Jungle Cruise has stairs.
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  10. #70

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Though the handicap tour guide practice might seem morally and ethically wrong to most of us, I don't think there is much Disney can do legally. I don't believe it is legal to question a person who claims to be disabled, let alone question the severity of the disability, or ask about the person's relationship with the accompanying group.

    One possible solution would be to limit the number of people in the accompanying group. A person with a GAC would of course like to enjoy an attraction with friends and family. But by allowing up to six people in the group, Disney is encouraging guests to manipulate the system to their advantage. I've often seen what appears to be a guest with a GAC being accompanied by the maximum number. I'm sure it's not a coincidence.

  11. #71

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    The best way IMO to get rid of people abusing the system is to give people a time to come back exactly how long the wait time is. Or something similar to a Fastpass. It's sort of a win win. People using it won't have to wait in the regular line, but can do other things, eat, shop...etc. Each GAC is scanned and can be used for one attraction at a time.
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  12. #72

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland67 View Post
    One possible solution would be to limit the number of people in the accompanying group. A person with a GAC would of course like to enjoy an attraction with friends and family. But by allowing up to six people in the group, Disney is encouraging guests to manipulate the system to their advantage.
    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHostJeff View Post
    The best way IMO to get rid of people abusing the system is to give people a time to come back exactly how long the wait time is. Or something similar to a Fastpass. It's sort of a win win. People using it won't have to wait in the regular line, but can do other things, eat, shop...etc. Each GAC is scanned and can be used for one attraction at a time.
    Both excellent ideas, and both things that Disney could accomplish.
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  13. #73

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    As someone who does use the alternative entrance for Star Tours, it is NOT one of the ones that is shorter. If you are in a wheelchair, you use the regular queue and they divert you. If you are using an ECV or a service dog, you go to the CM at the entrance, and they give you a ticket with a time to come back equal to the current wait time. So, you get a ticket with an hour wait, and then you approach the exit, and queue up there. When we get there, it is usually a 10-20 minute wait there before boarding.

    Be aware on busy days, Jungle Cruise has stairs.
    Ah, that is good to know. When I was at the park with my Mom, who used an ECV, we had Fastpasses to Star Tours. The CM at the entrance took those, gave us a ticket and sent us round the exit through the store, and we got right on. In hindsight I guess we got on immediately because of the Fastpass, but since I didn't see anyone else waiting back there I thought it was always that way. Good to learn something new...

    That's also good to remember about Jungle Cruise. Every time I've been on it (through the regular queue) the stairs have been closed, but it's a good reminder that I always need to ask the CM if I'm OK there.
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  14. #74

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    They don't "go on rides right away." There are about a dozen different GACs that cover everything from sun sensitivity to mobility issues. The GACs accommodate those physical limitations. The only ones who have GACs that get them to the front of every line are usually Make a Wish trip children.
    Thanks for the clarification.


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  15. #75

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    I wonder if it would be possible/feasible/legal for Disney to record the name of the GAC holder and their accompanying friends/family members & keep in some sort of database for a set period of time, say a year. They wouldn't have to include any medical info, just ID info like name, address, & date of birth. That way if they saw a specific individual coming day after day for a GAC, each time with a group of totally different 'family members' maybe they would be able to more closely question that person and their party. Maybe make them sign some sort of legal form swearing that they aren't charging people/running a 'tour guide' business or risk being banned from the park if they make a false statement.

    I know that there are many disabled people with APs that visit the parks frequently throughout the year, but I would assume that they don't take a completely different group of people with them each & every time as you would if you were 'tour-guiding'. I tried to figure out what my group 'pattern' would be if I was still a local & able to go whenever I wanted. I figured there would be maybe 10 people that I would visit DLR with on a fairly regular basis, & maybe 10 more 'out of town' relatives once or twice a year. So, if Disney kept track of my companions they would pretty much see the same names over and over.

    I guess I'm kind of looking at it from the same angle as the multi-day hopper picture-taking that is going on specifically to stop ticket renting. Since I've never actually gotten a GAC for myself, I don't really know the mechanics of getting one. I know they are obtained at City Hall/Guest Relations, but I don't know if you get them on a daily basis, length of visit basis, or annual basis if you're an AP holder.
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