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  1. #76

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Wow, so Fox News was right, the top 1% really are job creators!!!
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  2. #77

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    They can develop training methods to help their employees spot obvious, deliberate GAC scams. They can effect policies and procedures that direct CMs to alert security to obvious scammers, that mandate security follow and video the scammers in the act of scamming
    Not all disabilities are obvious. And I fear that creating this police state in search of scammers would just do more to hurt their public image and guest service than it would ever do to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    '...special entrance to fast pass lines'??

    Thanks for posting. I'm not entirely convinced there is enough evidence here to suggest they were explicitly selling the GAC as a feature to non disabled guests. It sounds more along the lines of selling their knowledge of the parks and crowd patterns not unlike other trip planning sites (like Touring Plans which promises to save you up to 4 hours of waiting!).

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Again.. gaming the system. The GAC is intended for use by your party... not random people who paid to be part of your party. Selling access to visit with you because you have a golden ticket is gaming the system for your selfish gain.
    We're never really going to know if this is what happened. Did the tour company know these people weren't disabled? Was the information ever volunteered? Since it is such a difficult and sensitive topic, I am sure that this tour company has helped many special needs guests whom they never asked or questioned their disability (and if I were them, I would make it a policy never to question anyone's disability). The website (at least now) makes it pretty clear that they were in the business of helping disabled guests enjoy the parks and of course they are going to say that was always the case.

    Gaming the system can have many different definitions too. I've often seen folks that use fastpass be accused of this same thing: is knowing about Fastpass and using it giving you an unfair advantage over others? Maybe knowing what machines are unnetworked and which ones are connected gives an unfair advantage? Is having enough money to purchase a Disney VIP tour that allows line passes considered gaming the system? Is it only gaming the system when a rule or policy is violated, and if that is the case then we go back to asking which policy explicitly was violated?

    I understand that visceral gut reaction of disgust here, but being disgusting doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. I think it's disgusting that people wait 5 hours for Fantasmic, or put their kids up on their shoulders during the fireworks, but I also don't think there's anything REALLY wrong with those behaviors (no matter how much I hate them).

  3. #78

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    I guess I'm kind of looking at it from the same angle as the multi-day hopper picture-taking that is going on specifically to stop ticket renting. Since I've never actually gotten a GAC for myself, I don't really know the mechanics of getting one. I know they are obtained at City Hall/Guest Relations, but I don't know if you get them on a daily basis, length of visit basis, or annual basis if you're an AP holder.
    When I got mine the other day, they did write my name on it and my AP number, as well. It's good for two months and I'm guessing that if my knee is still a mess I can renew it then. They also asked how many were in my party and since I mostly go solo to DLR, I just said that.
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  4. #79

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Thanks for posting. I'm not entirely convinced there is enough evidence here to suggest they were explicitly selling the GAC as a feature to non disabled guests
    It's not explicit - but it's enough to raise an eyebrow when combined with the feedback from their customers. Do you really think the tour guide is completely in the dark? Or are they simply turning a blind eye because the situation benefits them?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    We're never really going to know if this is what happened. Did the tour company know these people weren't disabled? Was the information ever volunteered? Since it is such a difficult and sensitive topic, I am sure that this tour company has helped many special needs guests whom they never asked or questioned their disability (and if I were them, I would make it a policy never to question anyone's disability)
    You're conveniently blurring this. These guests aren't claiming they are disabled... they are riding on the GAC of the tour guide. No need to get another GAC unless the group is too large. And the group using the GAC's holder access is a convenient 'benefit' of the tour guide having to stay with the group. Something the tour company apparently was exploiting to their advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Gaming the system can have many different definitions too. I've often seen folks that use fastpass be accused of this same thing: is knowing about Fastpass and using it giving you an unfair advantage over others? Maybe knowing what machines are unnetworked and which ones are connected gives an unfair advantage?
    Differences in understanding is not gaming the system - gaming the system is when you use the system beyond how it was intended for your own gain. Misapplying potential to make the system 'do things' beyond what it was intended to do. Exploiting non-networked FP is gaming the system, but is ethically softer in most people's opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Is having enough money to purchase a Disney VIP tour that allows line passes considered gaming the system? Is it only gaming the system when a rule or policy is violated, and if that is the case then we go back to asking which policy explicitly was violated?
    It's not about breaking a rule - but abusing a freedom (the definition of your party) to use the system in a way it was not intended to benefit yourself. Hence the gaming - not 'breaking the rules'.

    and no, VIP tours by disney are obviously not gaming the system because you are using the service directly as it was intended.
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  5. #80

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Garthilk View Post
    Isn't there a simple solution to this?

    1) Make every line ADA compliant.
    2) Enable ride scheduling.

    I'm not even sure why there needs to be a GAC pass. If next gen tech can schedule rides, why does there need to be a GAC pass. Solution to all problems. If you want spur of the moment and are wheelchair bound, the line will accommodate you. If you can't handle lines, schedule your ride and show up. No abusing the system, everyone on the same playing field.

    No, simplest solution is to have one of the party go through most of the regular line before enabling the GAC party to ride, failing that, passive cards that when turned in allow the party to ride, and give the carrier a free fast pass on another ride.

  6. #81

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneySavor View Post
    No, simplest solution is to have one of the party go through most of the regular line before enabling the GAC party to ride, failing that, passive cards that when turned in allow the party to ride, and give the carrier a free fast pass on another ride.
    We've done that. Sent part of our party through the line for Haunted Mansion while my daughter, mom, and Service dog waited. Then when we got to the entry point, because there were other disabled guests still waiting, we joined them and waited an additional 10 mins before we entered the elevator. We then followed the path and got to the front where everyone would board, and got pulled to the side because they were on Doombuggy 72 and we needed to wait for the doombuggies that handle the disabled groups, Doombuggy 7-10. We probably waited another 5 mins there. Basically, we waited closer to 15 mins LONGER than if we didn't have a disabled person in our party. It wasn't a big deal to us, because my mom and daughter got to ride, but does show where there is a flaw in your logic. Evacuation procedures only allow so many on at a specific time. So, if you arrive at a time when there are no other disabled guests waiting, you will get on faster, if there are others, you wait longer. Long run, it balances out.
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  7. #82

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Y'all know the NY Post falls somewhere between "rag" and "exploitative tabloid," yes?

    It's a garbage newspaper (if you can call it a newspaper) and this article is almost certainly bogus. I'm not certain anybody actually read it because so many of the details don't make any sense.

    “My daughter waited one minute to get on ‘It’s a Small World’ — the other kids had to wait 2 1/2 hours,” crowed one mom, who hired a disabled guide through Dream Tours Florida.


    2.5 hours for It's A Small World? Seriously?

    “You can’t go to Disney without a tour concierge,’’ she sniffed. “This is how the 1 percent does Disney.”
    This is a fitting quote for an article about Disney because it's literally something a Disney villain might say. I would suggest that nobody ever actually said this and instead it was made up to make people upset.

    Beyond that... you wouldn't save much time. As pointed out in this article, the majority of queues at WDW are wheelchair-accessible. You have to go through these queues even if you have a wheelchair with you.

  8. #83

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Shhhh! he sniffed, this is how the 1 percent get to wait in the same line with a new handicapped friend.

  9. #84

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    I'm actually curious about the 2.5 hours for It's A Small World. Is that possible? I'm not super familiar with WDW but at Disneyland I can only really see 2.5 hours for that ride on Christmas Day or something, and even then I can't imagine it ever getting that long. Plus, even assuming that the standby line was actually 2.5 hours you would imagine that the disabled entrance would be equally impacted, meaning that you wouldn't get on in "1 minute."

  10. #85

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Shhh! The one percent only THINK they're saving time and money.

  11. #86

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    Y'all know the NY Post falls somewhere between "rag" and "exploitative tabloid," yes?
    Too bad the story got picked up by major news outlets all over the country.. including others like CNN, etc. Oh, and there'll be a segment on the Today show tomorrow too.

    Attack the messenger all you want.. the beans have been spilled.
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  12. #87

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    We've done that. Sent part of our party through the line for Haunted Mansion while my daughter, mom, and Service dog waited. Then when we... <snip> ...there is a flaw in your logic. Evacuation procedures only allow so many on at a specific time. So, if you arrive at a time when there are no other disabled guests waiting, you will get on faster, if there are others, you wait longer. Long run, it balances out.
    I can see where you'd find fault there, and I agree with you for the most part. But, in the situation you described, allowances would be tolerable to allow timing to be adjusted. I don't think any guest should be made to wait longer than another, if possible.

    But the Gold Standard to end this problem of abuse by some is for every marked advantage of a GAC to be moot. It shouldn't be an advantage, only an accommodation. That means, at no time should the appearance or actuality of an advantage be noted.

    As long as the GAC can, at times, provide some advantage, someone will abuse it.

  13. #88

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    I'm actually curious about the 2.5 hours for It's A Small World. Is that possible? I'm not super familiar with WDW but at Disneyland I can only really see 2.5 hours for that ride on Christmas Day or something, and even then I can't imagine it ever getting that long. Plus, even assuming that the standby line was actually 2.5 hours you would imagine that the disabled entrance would be equally impacted, meaning that you wouldn't get on in "1 minute."
    It's much more likely that this is just a perception error of the one being quoted. I mean, if she thinks Small World's got a 150 minute line, I'm pretty sure her 5 minute wait with the GAC was just exaggerated down as the wait was raised. Not even sure someone that morally corrupt perceives time rationally at all.

  14. #89

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneySavor View Post
    ...if she thinks Small World's got a 150 minute line, I'm pretty sure her 5 minute wait with the GAC was just exaggerated down as the wait was raised. Not even sure someone that morally corrupt perceives time rationally at all.



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  15. #90

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    re: NTPOST article: Handicap Tour guides for hire at Disney Parks to get GAC (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Too bad the story got picked up by major news outlets all over the country.. including others like CNN, etc. Oh, and there'll be a segment on the Today show tomorrow too.

    Attack the messenger all you want.. the beans have been spilled.
    I WILL attack the messenger, because the NY Post is traditionally and currently a terrible publication.

    Beyond that, the CNN article is simply reporting on the NY Post article. It only says that "reports say," if you read it it's obvious that they've done exactly zero further research and are merely regurgitating the exact same quotations from the exact same person as the NY Post.

    The "beans have been spilled" by one single person at this point, and yes, it's completely relevant that the publication in question is terrible in every way. If you'll recall, the NY Post was the sole paper responsible for spreading terribly inaccurate information during the recent events in Boston and they (rightfully) caught a ton of flack because of that from nearly every corner.

    One woman's reports do not an epidemic make.

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