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  1. #16

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    Re: Alice: Three Years Later...

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    But Disney wasn’t “in a pinch”. They knew for a while that their ride was out of compliance. They had several warnings from the department to bring the ride into compliance and they ignored all of them until they were shut down. They came up with this temporary thing so they could open it again. However, a temporary situation should not take three years to rectify. This is all on Disney and shame on them for it.
    This. The Alice railings are in their current state because of Disney's footdragging, disorganization and cheapness.
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  2. #17

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    Re: Alice: Three Years Later...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    This. The Alice railings are in their current state because of Disney's footdragging, disorganization and cheapness.
    Extreme footdragging....
    For the love of Disney....

  3. #18

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    Re: Alice: Three Years Later...

    I have never seen that attraction's queue down below 30 minutes, ever! I mean it takes even 30 minutes to bring it back up after fireworks. I say if they don't bring it down this fall for the upgrade than for sure for the 60th. Disney does not want the official photographs of the park to have those god awful rails in the photos.
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  4. #19

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    Re: Alice: Three Years Later...

    If all these rides were stage shows, would they be putting railings in front of the stage, to keep the actors from falling off? There are other ways to solve the problem, while keeping the look of the old Matterhorn, Casey Jr., Jungle Cruise, and Alice rides, without installing safety railings or netting. Window washers clean skyrise windows without railings being installed on the buildings, don't they? I can think of plenty of ways to solve this problem, without installing railings, such as having a pushcart ride vehicle, with a boom on it, that the workers could attach a safety line to, when they work in dangerous areas.

  5. #20

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    Re: Alice: Three Years Later...

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Yes, it is. Too bad Disney doesn't know how to to make safety and creativity go hand and hand.
    Not to mention that it has never been a problem in the past re: the need for safety rails and… how long has the ride been in operation without an incident/accident? "Safety" and practicality should go hand in hand, its common sense that is missing from this overkill of safety requirements.
    Early to rise, early to bed, makes a man healthy... but socially dead.

  6. #21

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    Re: Alice: Three Years Later...

    This is.....insert bad word...ridiculous....I don't know Walt personally but their is no way in hell he'd of allowed the ride to look this ugly for over 3 months even....let alone 3 years

  7. #22

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    Re: Alice: Three Years Later...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mezo View Post
    Not to mention that it has never been a problem in the past re: the need for safety rails and… how long has the ride been in operation without an incident/accident? "Safety" and practicality should go hand in hand, its common sense that is missing from this overkill of safety requirements.
    Not having an accident is only proof that it hasn't happened yet. It is in no way evidence that it can't happen. Look how long Thunder Mountain was in operation before the train did a barrel roll over that guy.

    All it takes is on evacuation of an immobilized ride vehicle on a wet night and some poor tourist could do a slip and slide right off the side of that vine. Add to that the fact that there has been testimony on ths very forum that workers already feel safer with the new railings when walking in that area and it is proof that Disney needs to pull its head out of its butt and design something aesthetically pleasing for that ride.
    Last edited by calsig31; 05-23-2013 at 11:57 AM.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  8. #23

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    Re: Alice: Three Years Later...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mezo View Post
    Not to mention that it has never been a problem in the past re: the need for safety rails and… how long has the ride been in operation without an incident/accident? "Safety" and practicality should go hand in hand, its common sense that is missing from this overkill of safety requirements.

    This!

    A bloated government bureaucracy like OSHA isn't as concerned with worker safety as it is with keeping itself intact and preserving the jobs and high salaries of the bureaucrats that operate it. They have to keep coming up with new regulation, new violations, new enforcement to justify their existence.

    This attraction operated for 50 years with no rails then all of the sudden became a death trap for workers. If I were Disney I would keep the ugly railings up forever along with a sign explaining how overly intrusive our government has become.

  9. #24

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    Re: Alice: Three Years Later...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortgageman View Post
    This!

    A bloated government bureaucracy like OSHA isn't as concerned with worker safety as it is with keeping itself intact and preserving the jobs and high salaries of the bureaucrats that operate it. They have to keep coming up with new regulation, new violations, new enforcement to justify their existence.

    This attraction operated for 50 years with no rails then all of the sudden became a death trap for workers. If I were Disney I would keep the ugly railings up forever along with a sign explaining how overly intrusive our government has become.
    I must respectfully disagree. I believe that the government being seemingly overbearing is a direct result of our society not holding ourselves to take responsibility for our actions. I hate to say it but people are just behaving like idiots more and more each day and it's really sad. Then when said idiot gets injured they sue! Back in the early days of Disney people dressed up to the nines and behaved in a manner that was civil. When was the last time we met someone that attended etiquette school? Look at television, we went from great shows like "I Love Lucy" to reality trash like "The Bad Girls Club" and "Big Brother" and the like. Our society has become fixated on making the most money by doing the least amount of work and that includes suing theme parks for the most ridiculous reasons. I think OSHA in it's own way is trying to protect Disney by making sure that they are idiot-proofing EVERYTHING. Parents these days aren't making matters any better, letting their children run wild at the parks, and let me tell you if I see one more child shove his hand in the flumes at it's a small world it won't be the child I yell at not to do that (and yes I do yell at kids that stick their hands in the water), I will give those lazy and complacent parents a piece of my mind. So to OSHA I say, I'm sorry you have to be the messenger but yes you are doing what you need to do to protect those in our society that are just plain moronic and misbehave and don't follow rules and for that I applaud your efforts. To Disney I say, get it together and fix Alice up! You have like a thousand social media employees but you don't have enough employees to fix railings? Shut it down and get it done! Just rip off that band-aid already, it'll sting for like a second but the faster you do it the last pain you'll feel.

  10. #25

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    Re: Alice: Three Years Later...

    Quote Originally Posted by stitch1085 View Post
    I must respectfully disagree. I believe that the government being seemingly overbearing is a direct result of our society not holding ourselves to take responsibility for our actions. I hate to say it but people are just behaving like idiots more and more each day and it's really sad. Then when said idiot gets injured they sue! Back in the early days of Disney people dressed up to the nines and behaved in a manner that was civil. When was the last time we met someone that attended etiquette school? Look at television, we went from great shows like "I Love Lucy" to reality trash like "The Bad Girls Club" and "Big Brother" and the like. Our society has become fixated on making the most money by doing the least amount of work and that includes suing theme parks for the most ridiculous reasons. I think OSHA in it's own way is trying to protect Disney by making sure that they are idiot-proofing EVERYTHING. Parents these days aren't making matters any better, letting their children run wild at the parks, and let me tell you if I see one more child shove his hand in the flumes at it's a small world it won't be the child I yell at not to do that (and yes I do yell at kids that stick their hands in the water), I will give those lazy and complacent parents a piece of my mind. So to OSHA I say, I'm sorry you have to be the messenger but yes you are doing what you need to do to protect those in our society that are just plain moronic and misbehave and don't follow rules and for that I applaud your efforts. To Disney I say, get it together and fix Alice up! You have like a thousand social media employees but you don't have enough employees to fix railings? Shut it down and get it done! Just rip off that band-aid already, it'll sting for like a second but the faster you do it the last pain you'll feel.
    The changes to Alice have nothing to do with people in the parks "behaving like idiots" or kids running "wild at the parks". The railings are there as fall prevention for workers walking the track or in the case of people having to be evaced from the fine if the ride vehicle cannot be pushed to the bottom.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  11. #26

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    Re: Alice: Three Years Later...

    Quote Originally Posted by stitch1085 View Post
    I must respectfully disagree. I believe that the government being seemingly overbearing is a direct result of our society not holding ourselves to take responsibility for our actions. I hate to say it but people are just behaving like idiots more and more each day and it's really sad. Then when said idiot gets injured they sue! Back in the early days of Disney people dressed up to the nines and behaved in a manner that was civil. When was the last time we met someone that attended etiquette school? Look at television, we went from great shows like "I Love Lucy" to reality trash like "The Bad Girls Club" and "Big Brother" and the like. Our society has become fixated on making the most money by doing the least amount of work and that includes suing theme parks for the most ridiculous reasons. I think OSHA in it's own way is trying to protect Disney by making sure that they are idiot-proofing EVERYTHING. Parents these days aren't making matters any better, letting their children run wild at the parks, and let me tell you if I see one more child shove his hand in the flumes at it's a small world it won't be the child I yell at not to do that (and yes I do yell at kids that stick their hands in the water), I will give those lazy and complacent parents a piece of my mind. So to OSHA I say, I'm sorry you have to be the messenger but yes you are doing what you need to do to protect those in our society that are just plain moronic and misbehave and don't follow rules and for that I applaud your efforts. To Disney I say, get it together and fix Alice up! You have like a thousand social media employees but you don't have enough employees to fix railings? Shut it down and get it done! Just rip off that band-aid already, it'll sting for like a second but the faster you do it the last pain you'll feel.


    Stich - while there is not much in your post that I can say I disagree with, I think you need to be reminded that OSHA's jurisdiction is only for occupational safety. Safety hazzards to the general public, guests and their children are not OSHA's concern. OSHA couldn't give a mouse's behind whether Disney gets sued by guests.

    The recent slew of OSHA violations (attacks are a better description) at the DL resort have to do solely with employee safety (or rather OSHA's perception of safety).

  12. #27

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    Re: Alice: Three Years Later...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortgageman View Post
    Stich - while there is not much in your post that I can say I disagree with, I think you need to be reminded that OSHA's jurisdiction is only for occupational safety.
    Not true. From the DOSH website:

    "The Division of Occupational Safety and Health (DOSH), better known as Cal/OSHA, protects workers from health and safety hazards on the job in almost every workplace in California through its research and standards, enforcement, and consultation programs. Cal/OSHA also oversees programs to promote public safety on elevators, amusement rides, ski lifts and to promote the safe use of pressure vessels (e.g., boilers and tanks)."
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  13. #28

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    Re: Alice: Three Years Later...

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    This is.....insert bad word...ridiculous....I don't know Walt personally but their is no way in hell he'd of allowed the ride to look this ugly for over 3 months even....let alone 3 years
    Indeed.
    I recall reading somewhere that Tony Baxter was fairly upset about these railings himself. The jist was he put up quite a fight to keep them from being installed.

    Hard to believe it has been three years already...just wow.
    I love *Alice..*...one of the better FL dark rides, and the traveling outside, then in, and then outside again is a neat novelty. A pity that sensation of slipping over the edge in your catapiller is now somewhat lost.

  14. #29

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    Re: Alice: Three Years Later...

    Three years isn't that much relatively when you've got a track in Tomorrowland that's been abandoned for going on 12 years and entire floors in the same land that's been vacant for a similar amount of time.

    Still - very poor follow-through on a comparatively minor fix.

  15. #30

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    Re: Alice: Three Years Later...

    Quote Originally Posted by B2D View Post
    Three years isn't that much relatively when you've got a track in Tomorrowland that's been abandoned for going on 12 years and entire floors in the same land that's been vacant for a similar amount of time.

    Still - very poor follow-through on a comparatively minor fix.
    I agree. The Alice railings should have been fixed within the year the temporary fix went up. From design, to manufacturing, to installing, anything over a year is just silly. Just to put things in perspective, it took them roughly a year to build the Princess Fantasy Faire.

    The old Rocket Rod tracks should have been removed after the ride was no longer operational, and they did not have a solution for another attraction. Or, they should have figured out an alternative solution for something else to take the RR's place.

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