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  1. #16

    • "I Break Things"
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    Re: How to reduce Stand-by lines

    From a physical standpoint, Fastpass "reserves" your place in 1 line while you wait in another line. By that very definition it is making the line longer because the Fastpass attraction must keep a portion of it's line underutilized specifically because it has to meet the Fastpass requirement of below 20 minutes.

    From a psychological standpoint Fastpass rewards people for waiting longer. People are trying to kill time in order to meet their Fastpass window. If a line takes 2hrs... great... they have 2 attractions they're "getting" out of that wait. Remove the reward, and the line becomes merit based. People will only wait as long as they feel the attraction is "worth it". Most people won't wait 2 to 3 hours unless they have a Fastpass in hand while they're waiting.
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  2. #17

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    Re: How to reduce Stand-by lines

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Most people won't wait 2 to 3 hours unless they have a Fastpass in hand while they're waiting.
    They used to wait that long pre-FP. Now with everyone spoiled from it, lines level out at about an hour and rarely go over that. I remember space mountain being over an hour a heck of a lot of the time in the 90s.

    I say keep fast pass. Its the only thing regulating the lines these days physically and psychologically these days.
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  3. #18

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    Re: How to reduce Stand-by lines

    As I've already mentioned, people's average patience level has changed a lot since the 90's. FastPass and other amusement parks' front-of-line passes might have contributed to this, but it's a general society shift caused mainly by wait times getting shorter all over. Remember dial-up to the internet? Good times. Now, man if that internet doesn't pop up right away, I will be having serious bovines.

    Oh, and the attractions have not changed, so people's tolerance for waiting for something they've ridden a few dozen times diminishes as well.

    When I see a line I don't want to wait in, I don't go on that attraction. I won't be going to MiceChat complaining about it. Popular attractions will have long lines (service times affect that, though, like POTC and HM, for which 3000 guests in line = a one-hour wait -- that's a LOT of guests).

    When some attraction is brand new, there will be a long line and people will get in that line. If that attraction is not rerideable (nemo subs, little mermaid, monsters), the amount of time the average person is willing to spend waiting for it drops.
    Just human nature.
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  4. #19

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    Re: How to reduce Stand-by lines

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    They used to wait that long pre-FP. Now with everyone spoiled from it, lines level out at about an hour and rarely go over that. I remember space mountain being over an hour a heck of a lot of the time in the 90s.

    I say keep fast pass. Its the only thing regulating the lines these days physically and psychologically these days.
    I agree. I remember lines being miserably long before FastPass. Haven't other posters here reported seeing three hour lines for Indy before FP? As another example, when there are special events without FP, such as (the old) Grad Nites and the Halloween parties, the lines are just as long, if not longer, than they are *with* FP.

    With FP are you waiting hours to go on a ride? Technically, yes, but you get to spend that wait doing whatever else you want. You're not stuck looking at the back of someone's head in a slow-moving, mind-numbing line for two hours. IMHO FastPass makes it possible to make the most of your time at the park.
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  5. #20

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    Re: How to reduce Stand-by lines

    I think the fact that lines for attractions without a FP tend to move faster than those with FP goes to show the system actually makes wait times longer. Matterhorn is a prime example. The line usually doesn't go above 20-30min and it moves consistently. Now look at a ride like Space Mountain where you have a FP and the standby wait time averages 45-60min and often comes to a complete stand still for several minutes as the CM's flood the indoor line with FP guests. If there was no FP the line would move consistently and decrease the amount of time just standing there.
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  6. #21

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    Re: How to reduce Stand-by lines

    Can it really be a comparison, though? Space is much more popular than Matterhorn, and Matterhorn also has two tracks, which eats up crowds. IMHO a better example would be to look at the e-tickets without Fastpass. Toy Story doesn't have it, and the lines grow to 90 minutes or longer. Space Mountain without Fastpass (on Halloween party nights also has lines in the 60 - 80 minute range. I think I remember someone here posting about a Grad Nite (when the park was closed to the public and FP was not offered) where Space was 120 minutes. Peter Pan has lines that are usually triple the length of any other ride in Fantasyland because it's popular, not because of Fastpass. In contrast, when Buzz Lightyear had Fastpass you could often still get on the ride in 10 minutes via standby, because it wasn't as in demand.
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  7. #22

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    Re: How to reduce Stand-by lines

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Can it really be a comparison, though? Space is much more popular than Matterhorn, and Matterhorn also has two tracks, which eats up crowds. IMHO a better example would be to look at the e-tickets without Fastpass. Toy Story doesn't have it, and the lines grow to 90 minutes or longer. Space Mountain without Fastpass (on Halloween party nights also has lines in the 60 - 80 minute range. I think I remember someone here posting about a Grad Nite (when the park was closed to the public and FP was not offered) where Space was 120 minutes. Peter Pan has lines that are usually triple the length of any other ride in Fantasyland because it's popular, not because of Fastpass. In contrast, when Buzz Lightyear had Fastpass you could often still get on the ride in 10 minutes via standby, because it wasn't as in demand.
    The Matterhorn is a pretty popular attraction that holds 6 people per vehicle. Even with 2 tracks that doesn't top what Space Mountain holds per vehicle.

    I think most of TSMM's problem is the fact that the actual loading of the ride takes forever and most of the time the ride vehicles stop while you're inside the ride for minutes at a time. It isn't very smooth.
    I have never understood why the wait for Peter Pan is always so long. Most of it is probably due to the fact that each "ship" only holds two people and the fact that it is just a popular ride. That's is why Mr. Toad's wait is usually longer, too. Snow White and Pinocchio both have vehicles that hold 4-6 people depending on the size of the guests and if the wait is 5min that's usually the longest you will wait.
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  8. #23

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    Re: How to reduce Stand-by lines

    Quote Originally Posted by DrFink View Post
    I think the fact that lines for attractions without a FP tend to move faster than those with FP goes to show the system actually makes wait times longer. Matterhorn is a prime example. The line usually doesn't go above 20-30min and it moves consistently. Now look at a ride like Space Mountain where you have a FP and the standby wait time averages 45-60min and often comes to a complete stand still for several minutes as the CM's flood the indoor line with FP guests. If there was no FP the line would move consistently and decrease the amount of time just standing there.
    The line moves faster, but without FP there is going to be more people in the line. It really all balances out, Disney as people have posted previously claims it has made Standby wait times shorter. The line may move slower with FP but that doesn't mean it's a longer wait.

    Also Space Mountain is more popular than Matterhorn. Also since capacity of rides varies dramatically comparing wait times and line speed between attractions doesn't work. Luigi's flying tires line moves horribly slow while California Screamin' moves fast. HM and Potc line moves faster than RSR but it isn't because they don't have FP it's because their capacity is so large.
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  9. #24

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    Re: How to reduce Stand-by lines

    I don't think the "add more rides/attractions" is a bad idea to reduce lines. It will spread people out across more lines. As for the "but more people will come to the park if there are more attractions" argument, I think the park is already at the saturation level as far as crowd levels. No, it's not closing every day because it hit capacity, but it's reached people's tolerance level. I don't think it can get MUCH more crowded on a regular basis - people self-regulate, they'll get fed up and go to the park across the esplanade, or just leave all together. And just decide not to come because it's too darn crowded. It's not just the length of stand-by lines that makes the crowded park unpleasant for many, it's the crowded walk ways and just the giant wall of people.

    Sure, when the attraction(s) first open the place will be packed beyond belief, but once the newness wears off it will be back to normal levels, but with more attractions to spread the crowd across.

    We'll eventually find out if this is true. I would not be surprised if Disney is planning to open something big right about the time Potter opens up.

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