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  1. #106

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    Re: Al Report: The Reality of the Disneyland Explosion, D23 Expo, Fantasyland Updatin

    Quote Originally Posted by d.N.d. View Post
    Imaginashton stated themed to California's history in aviation. Not that California invented aviation.
    My point is that just because California had aviation in its history doesn't make aviation unique to, an icon of, or even especially representative of California.

    California has also had cattle ranching, aerospace, forestry, nuclear reactors, whaling, the U.S. military and shootouts at old-West saloons in its history, but none of those are any more icons of California than they are of the many other states that also had them.


    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    But you never leave the American rivers. It’s not called Rivers of America and you are suddenly cruising down the Thames. Just like wouldn’t expect to go into a park about California and go site seeing in Paris.
    Exactly. Saying that things which many states and other countries have are theme-appropriate for a California-themed park is like "7 Degrees of Bacon" -- everything can be connected with everything if you look far enough.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 06-13-2013 at 04:38 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  2. #107

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    Re: Al Report: The Reality of the Disneyland Explosion, D23 Expo, Fantasyland Updatin

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Exactly. Saying that things which many states and other countries have are theme-appropriate for a California-themed park is like "7 Degrees of Bacon" -- everything can be connected with everything if you look far enough.
    I love that game. Let's see...

    CA Adventure is a Disney Park
    Magic Kingdom is a Disney Park
    JFK is in the Magic Kingdom
    Kevin Bacon was in JFK
    Kevin Bacon was in Animal House

    It works... the next themed land for CA Advenure is Faber College. Anyone else excited about the Blutarsky walk around character?
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  3. #108

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    Re: Al Report: The Reality of the Disneyland Explosion, D23 Expo, Fantasyland Updatin

    Pan am flew out of Los Angeles. Soarin could take a similar approach. Don't have to tie pan am in but something along the lines of the first world flight or something similar. I'm sure an armchair imagineer could whip it up.

    If soarin took a stars tour approach where it's an innocent tour and your swept up away across the world unexpectantly. There are so many angles like I said an armchair imagineer would do better. However just because the world is tied in doesn't make it so irrelevant to Cali that it can't exist in dca.
    "I love Mickey Mouse more than any woman I have ever known."-Walt Disney

    Hope I was helpful!

  4. #109

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    Re: Al Report: The Reality of the Disneyland Explosion, D23 Expo, Fantasyland Updatin

    I'm confused...are you saying that CA history with aviation has nothing to do with CA as well as anything else in the park that has something in common with another country? Also I honestly don't think that leaving California in a land dedicated to aviation and returning to CA is a stretch.

  5. #110

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    Re: Al Report: The Reality of the Disneyland Explosion, D23 Expo, Fantasyland Updatin

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    I love that game. Let's see...

    CA Adventure is a Disney Park
    Magic Kingdom is a Disney Park
    JFK is in the Magic Kingdom
    Kevin Bacon was in JFK
    Kevin Bacon was in Animal House

    It works... the next themed land for CA Advenure is Faber College. Anyone else excited about the Blutarsky walk around character?


    To-GAH! To-GAH!
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  6. #111

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    Re: Al Report: The Reality of the Disneyland Explosion, D23 Expo, Fantasyland Updatin

    Ok so here's my two cents on the matter. I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to film and cinema projections. I loved the original Star Tours mainly because it was filmed using physical miniatures and actual sets. It was projected on a screen using a traditional film and rig set up. Every time I go on the new ST, I dislike the pixelization of the film as well as the cartoon-like animations used on most of the film. The parts with actual actors look pretty good, but those scenes are far and few between. I know that digital projection systems are extremely advanced and have a significant number of advantages over old school set-ups, mainly that there is no film that will wear out over the years.

    This is an issue that Soarin is facing right now, since the film used has seen it's lifetime and then some. The screen itself is pretty dirty, but that's another issue altogether. Soarin' is projected using 70MM film on a domed IMAX screen. I would hate to see the same film, or a different one for that matter, projected using digital technology. I know the new 4K systems have a pretty awesome resolution, but that all goes out the window once is projected onto an IMAX screen.

    The digital systems are all super patent and firmware locked, so there isn't even an option for Disney to create their own projection system that could override all of the ideas I've outlined here. The risk of being sued for patent infringement is too high these days. Most projectionists in movie theaters don't have the ability to adjust individual projectors to better show each film because the manufacturer locks the units after installation.

    I'll step off my soapbox now and let this healthy debate continue
    "Your cadaverous pallor betrays an aura of foreboding. Perhaps you sense a disquieting metamorphosis occurring? Is this room actually stretching, or is it your imagination?"

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  7. #112

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    Re: Al Report: The Reality of the Disneyland Explosion, D23 Expo, Fantasyland Updatin

    Quote Originally Posted by imaginashton View Post
    I'm confused...are you saying that CA history with aviation has nothing to do with CA as well as anything else in the park that has something in common with another country? Also I honestly don't think that leaving California in a land dedicated to aviation and returning to CA is a stretch.
    I'm confused as well. 7 degrees of Bacon was funny, but we are not making any type of stretch at all. The purpose of aviation is to transport you to other places quickly, which is what Soarin does. Planes don't stop at the California border.

  8. #113

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    Re: Al Report: The Reality of the Disneyland Explosion, D23 Expo, Fantasyland Updatin

    I guess I need to just give up. We have people who would basically swear of Disney if they added a mini land based on Monsters, a movie, into a land based upon movies and entertainment, yet they are willing to stretch so far as to accept Soarin being changed from a California travelogue to an International travelogue.
    Even I who admit that the DCA theme is loosely California based now, belive that Soarin over California is VITAL to maintaing any scintilla of an emotional tie in.
    Soarin is the absolute heart of the park and the single most important attraction in maintaining its California theme in any way. You are so addamant about rules and regulations of theme park design, yet dont understand the emotional tie to maintain a theme or specific land. Something that emotionally draws you into the theme of the park is WAY more important. Change it to Soarin over the World, and you can kiss that goodbye. Seeing that many of the same people who would feel Disney has lost their way by a movie mini land in a larger area about movies, would be fine with this thematically, makes me truly glad Disney doesnt make decisions based on what the fan sites are revved up about.
    Tying in Soarin over the world to California by saying it takes off from California is admitting that California is such a lame theme that we need to come up with something more interesting than this boring state and figure out a way to loosely tie it in. That is exactly what this would be. How would that help the overall theme of the park? It wouldnt at all.
    A far bigger attrocity in my book than Monstropolis.

  9. #114

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    Re: Al Report: The Reality of the Disneyland Explosion, D23 Expo, Fantasyland Updatin

    Doing this would be NO different than changing The American Adventure to an attraction where Ben Franklin comes on stage, gives a little speech, then we follow him on his journey to France and learn about the French revolution.
    Can you imagine having an attraction in any of the International pavilions at EPCOT where we visit ANYPLACE other than the country itself. France has a much larger footprint on the history of aviation than California. Would it be ok to have a travelogue around the world attraction in the France pavilion. Of course it wouldn't. We would all be scratching our heads and asking how offended we think French people would be.

  10. #115

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    Re: Al Report: The Reality of the Disneyland Explosion, D23 Expo, Fantasyland Updatin

    Quote Originally Posted by planodisney View Post
    I guess I need to just give up. We have people who would basically swear of Disney if they added a mini land based on Monsters, a movie, into a land based upon movies and entertainment, yet they are willing to stretch so far as to accept Soarin being changed from a California travelogue to an International travelogue.
    Even I who admit that the DCA theme is loosely California based now, belive that Soarin over California is VITAL to maintaing any scintilla of an emotional tie in.
    Soarin is the absolute heart of the park and the single most important attraction in maintaining its California theme in any way. You are so addamant about rules and regulations of theme park design, yet dont understand the emotional tie to maintain a theme or specific land. Something that emotionally draws you into the theme of the park is WAY more important. Change it to Soarin over the World, and you can kiss that goodbye. Seeing that many of the same people who would feel Disney has lost their way by a movie mini land in a larger area about movies, would be fine with this thematically, makes me truly glad Disney doesnt make decisions based on what the fan sites are revved up about.
    Tying in Soarin over the world to California by saying it takes off from California is admitting that California is such a lame theme that we need to come up with something more interesting than this boring state and figure out a way to loosely tie it in. That is exactly what this would be. How would that help the overall theme of the park? It wouldnt at all.
    A far bigger attrocity in my book than Monstropolis.
    whoa......
    first and foremost it's a theme park ride you don't need to give up

    second, soarin of the world could work. You take off in Cali fly around and boom go see the world. Heck possibly reference in their how the world influenced Cali (oriental culture, wines of France.....so forth). Fly back through America ending in Cali with a bang a homage to the state. I don't know why this is a bad idea.
    "I love Mickey Mouse more than any woman I have ever known."-Walt Disney

    Hope I was helpful!

  11. #116

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    Re: Al Report: The Reality of the Disneyland Explosion, D23 Expo, Fantasyland Updatin

    I am far more AGAINST this, than I am OK with Monstropolis.

    For me it isn't ok. It guts the heart of DCA.
    Also, Hollywood has a lot more to do with a movie, even Monsters Inc., than a Desert airfield has to do with France, Germany and China. Its ridiculous.

  12. #117

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    Re: Al Report: The Reality of the Disneyland Explosion, D23 Expo, Fantasyland Updatin

    But it's an airplane the point of the desert airfield was to take you away. Right?
    "I love Mickey Mouse more than any woman I have ever known."-Walt Disney

    Hope I was helpful!

  13. #118

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    Re: Al Report: The Reality of the Disneyland Explosion, D23 Expo, Fantasyland Updatin

    I'd prefer that Soarin' stayed about California, I'd love to see it given an upgrade to a Star Tours II style of ride with the same musical score used. Then they could just swap various sections of film that have a similar emotional feeling as the existing ones so it always fits with the score. However, I'd much rather see this happen then the Monsters Land.

    It's really about the difference between a land and an individual attraction. Rides have inherently more flexibility in what you experience, particularly if they are enclosed. Lands, as John Hench liked to say, need a lack of visual intrusions to be convincing. I would have less of a problem with the Monsters idea if it was complete enclosed in a huge building that looked like Hollywood in the 40's on the outside. Ideally, you could walk through an apartment, into a kids room and through a closet door into a more vintage version of Monstropolis. But still, even that is a poor use of the space that should go to a ride to firm up the vintage Hollywood theme.

    I'd just keep the Monsters ride and make a few upgrades. It's a decent little dark ride, but its in a dead corner and has a horrid exterior. I would do like I described above, the building would look like a 40's apartment building and you'd enter a kid's room in the queue and pass through the door and enter Monstropolis. Then I'd make a few upgrades to some of the AA's and sound effects. Once that's done I'd completely rip out the back-lot except for maybe a few of the facades that could be reused and use all that space for a huge modern dark ride and put the entrance to that near Monsters so it wasn't so out of the way.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  14. #119

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    Re: Al Report: The Reality of the Disneyland Explosion, D23 Expo, Fantasyland Updatin

    Quote Originally Posted by d.N.d. View Post
    But it's an airplane the point of the desert airfield was to take you away. Right?
    But why is it there? Theme parks are an exercise in story telling. The constant over reliance on flimsy linkages are a sort of deus ex machina and do nothing for the experience or the medium.

  15. #120

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    Re: Al Report: The Reality of the Disneyland Explosion, D23 Expo, Fantasyland Updatin

    Quote Originally Posted by d.N.d. View Post
    second, soarin of the world could work. You take off in Cali fly around and boom go see the world. Heck possibly reference in their how the world influenced Cali (oriental culture, wines of France.....so forth). Fly back through America ending in Cali with a bang a homage to the state. I don't know why this is a bad idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by d.N.d. View Post
    But it's an airplane the point of the desert airfield was to take you away. Right?
    I could reply to these, but I don’t think that I could top the way that planodisney explained it. It really gets to nexus of the issue with having an attraction about California take people to destinations outside of California and deserves a careful read:
    Quote Originally Posted by planodisney View Post
    Doing this would be NO different than changing The American Adventure to an attraction where Ben Franklin comes on stage, gives a little speech, then we follow him on his journey to France and learn about the French revolution.
    Can you imagine having an attraction in any of the International pavilions at EPCOT where we visit ANYPLACE other than the country itself. France has a much larger footprint on the history of aviation than California. Would it be ok to have a travelogue around the world attraction in the France pavilion. Of course it wouldn't. We would all be scratching our heads and asking how offended we think French people would be.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

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