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  1. #61

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    Re: How is the 3rd gate going to affect attendance at Disneyland and DCA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Weaver View Post
    Disney should own the Gardenwalk mall and rename it Uptown Disney, and should extend the monorail system to connect all 3 parks, all parking lots and all Disney-owned hotels. I hope the third park reduces lines at the other 2 parks!
    Getting back to your point, Bob, the proposed drawing for a third park shows just that, with GardenWalk serving as the "Main Street"/"Downtown Disney" just outside the gates.

  2. #62

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    Re: How is the 3rd gate going to affect attendance at Disneyland and DCA?

    I'm totally opposed to a 3rd park. The infastructure at Disneyland is stressed to the breaking point at it is. Remember how bad things were last year for the 24hr party? If the 3rd park really does add another 25K - 35K or more people like Disney hopes it will, it would be that bad every day. The number one thing Disney needs is more hotels that they own. Disney's three hotels are sold out practically every night now. Walt Disney World has four parks (plus two water parks) and they have 22 hotels, some of which hold up to 3000 guests. Now granted, there are a number of non-Disney hotels right next to Disneyland, but if people are flying here from their homes to go to Disneyland for 5 - 7 days, they presumably will want to stay in a Disney hotel (at least, that is the pattern at Walt Disney World). So I think they need at least three more and maybe even more then that. Disneyland Paris has seven hotels. Secondly, parking would have to be dramatically improved. Disney would need giant parking structures all over the area, and either expand the monorail, or add a subway or something that doesn't clog up traffic worse then it already is. I could see something like the Ticket & Transportation Center at WDW where they have tons of parking, ticket booth and guest relations, and a couple of different monorail tracks to take you to either Magic Kingdom or Epcot, and it is not connected to any theme park. It is just it's own entity within Walt Disney World.

    So bottom line is that Disney would need to probably spend the next ten years or so upgrading hotels, transportation, and parking for the area before they can think about opening a third park.
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  3. #63

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    Re: How is the 3rd gate going to affect attendance at Disneyland and DCA?

    This is all very interesting info about a possible expansion of DLR to include a 3rd gate. I agree that so much would have to be done first; the logistics of lodging, parking, security and an expansion of the Monorail along with other transportation to make this dream a reality. I think it would take at least 7-10 years just to do that part. This proposed time 5-7 year time-frame seems unrealistic. I think the trouble with Disney in Anaheim is that anything built right next to the original DL would have to blow everyone away; they could not risk doing a DCA 1.0 screw up in this economy.

    Additionally, I don't think Universal's Potter world will significantly effect attendance at the current DLR in the long run. Walt's resilient original Disneyland along with the new positive direction DCA is now headed would allow guests another great opportunity to stay in So Cal possibly beyond a week with visits to both resorts regardless of a 3rd gate. All these comparisons to WDW just don't add up here in California as far as I can see.

    Where will this street car transportation area be exactly? Maybe Disney should just focus on keeping the original resort fresh and running up to higher standards which could include new original attractions. Keep Walt's DL park and his vision preserved and the original imagineering evolution necessary for future generations.

    Someone mentioned on here that there is room in both DL and DCA for expansion; not sure if this actually true or not. Either way, creating a 3rd gate where you must take transportation to attend seems impractical for those of us who like the ability to walk to all the parks. DCA is still a work in progress; do we actually think that Disney is going to build an outstanding 3rd gate to be what exactly? I mean Star Wars has already been incorporated into Tomorrowland for many years now - what original ideas has anyone come up with for a 3rd gate? So what if Disney did the Marvel acquisition? Are there concrete concepts, original ideas and plans of any kind that are realistic enough to make a 3rd gate a complete success?

    Expansion to the north seems unworthy with that freeway right there. Expansion to the east with Harbor in the way looks limited.
    That leaves the south and west sides... can this actually be done in such a short amount of time?

  4. #64

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    Re: How is the 3rd gate going to affect attendance at Disneyland and DCA?

    Quote Originally Posted by RacerGT View Post
    This is all very interesting info about a possible expansion of DLR to include a 3rd gate. I agree that so much would have to be done first; the logistics of lodging, parking, security and an expansion of the Monorail along with other transportation to make this dream a reality. I think it would take at least 7-10 years just to do that part. This proposed time 5-7 year time-frame seems unrealistic. I think the trouble with Disney in Anaheim is that anything built right next to the original DL would have to blow everyone away; they could not risk doing a DCA 1.0 screw up in this economy.

    Additionally, I don't think Universal's Potter world will significantly effect attendance at the current DLR in the long run. Walt's resilient original Disneyland along with the new positive direction DCA is now headed would allow guests another great opportunity to stay in So Cal possibly beyond a week with visits to both resorts regardless of a 3rd gate. All these comparisons to WDW just don't add up here in California as far as I can see.

    Where will this street car transportation area be exactly? Maybe Disney should just focus on keeping the original resort fresh and running up to higher standards which could include new original attractions. Keep Walt's DL park and his vision preserved and the original imagineering evolution necessary for future generations.

    Someone mentioned on here that there is room in both DL and DCA for expansion; not sure if this actually true or not. Either way, creating a 3rd gate where you must take transportation to attend seems impractical for those of us who like the ability to walk to all the parks. DCA is still a work in progress; do we actually think that Disney is going to build an outstanding 3rd gate to be what exactly? I mean Star Wars has already been incorporated into Tomorrowland for many years now - what original ideas has anyone come up with for a 3rd gate? So what if Disney did the Marvel acquisition? Are there concrete concepts, original ideas and plans of any kind that are realistic enough to make a 3rd gate a complete success?

    Expansion to the north seems unworthy with that freeway right there. Expansion to the east with Harbor in the way looks limited.
    That leaves the south and west sides... can this actually be done in such a short amount of time?
    First off Walt's dream always to expand here in the original Magic Kingdom but that wasn't possible during that time but now that is I believe Bob Iger will accomplish Walt's dream of making the DLR a multi day destination!

    Sure a lot has to get done before anything really big happens but it will get done, and the 3rd park will not be as a big as the first 2 parks but it will be great just wait and see!

    and never underestimate Disney!

  5. #65

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    Re: How is the 3rd gate going to affect attendance at Disneyland and DCA?

    Quote Originally Posted by DCAfanatic View Post
    First off Walt's dream always to expand here in the original Magic Kingdom but that wasn't possible during that time but now that is I believe Bob Iger will accomplish Walt's dream of making the DLR a multi day destination!

    Sure a lot has to get done before anything really big happens but it will get done, and the 3rd park will not be as a big as the first 2 parks but it will be great just wait and see!

    and never underestimate Disney!
    Okay... sounds good =) I did not know that he wanted to expand the original park and I do look forward to any Disney magic headed our way! Though I do not live near this magical place; it is great to read, write, share and visit with the magical people who believe in it as we do!

  6. #66

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    Re: How is the 3rd gate going to affect attendance at Disneyland and DCA?

    Quote Originally Posted by RacerGT View Post
    This is all very interesting info about a possible expansion of DLR to include a 3rd gate. I agree that so much would have to be done first; the logistics of lodging, parking, security and an expansion of the Monorail along with other transportation to make this dream a reality. I think it would take at least 7-10 years just to do that part. This proposed time 5-7 year time-frame seems unrealistic. I think the trouble with Disney in Anaheim is that anything built right next to the original DL would have to blow everyone away; they could not risk doing a DCA 1.0 screw up in this economy.

    Additionally, I don't think Universal's Potter world will significantly effect attendance at the current DLR in the long run. Walt's resilient original Disneyland along with the new positive direction DCA is now headed would allow guests another great opportunity to stay in So Cal possibly beyond a week with visits to both resorts regardless of a 3rd gate. All these comparisons to WDW just don't add up here in California as far as I can see.

    Where will this street car transportation area be exactly? Maybe Disney should just focus on keeping the original resort fresh and running up to higher standards which could include new original attractions. Keep Walt's DL park and his vision preserved and the original imagineering evolution necessary for future generations.

    Someone mentioned on here that there is room in both DL and DCA for expansion; not sure if this actually true or not. Either way, creating a 3rd gate where you must take transportation to attend seems impractical for those of us who like the ability to walk to all the parks. DCA is still a work in progress; do we actually think that Disney is going to build an outstanding 3rd gate to be what exactly? I mean Star Wars has already been incorporated into Tomorrowland for many years now - what original ideas has anyone come up with for a 3rd gate? So what if Disney did the Marvel acquisition? Are there concrete concepts, original ideas and plans of any kind that are realistic enough to make a 3rd gate a complete success?

    Expansion to the north seems unworthy with that freeway right there. Expansion to the east with Harbor in the way looks limited.
    That leaves the south and west sides... can this actually be done in such a short amount of time?
    Also Bob Iger and TDA have already mentioned a 3rd park during press conferences and interviews but always mentioned that DCA and DL have to fixed before they officially announce a 3rd gate , they wouldn't have bought that strawberry field if not thinking about a 3rd gate , but of course DCA's 1.0 failure delayed everything they had planned.

    also TDA wants you to stay at the resort for several day's, 5 days minimum and not leaving their resort to visit USH and Knotts and Seaworld destinations that's the reason they are thinking 3rd gate.

    Secondly when the Anaheim streetcar gets finished by 2018 which will take guests from one destination to another, DCA and DL and parking will most likely be fixed by then other parks around the globe will be done, that their primary focused will be back at the DLR and that's when Disney will officially announce a 3rd gate, Marvel and Star wars will be their primary focused to that gate because of Orlando's restrictions of marvel in their state! so luckily for that reason alone is why the DLR will get a 3rd gate instead of Orlando getting a 5th gate.

  7. #67

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    Re: How is the 3rd gate going to affect attendance at Disneyland and DCA?

    I'm taking the naysayer's arguments as critique and gathering them as suggestions because so far I'm not hearing anything that leads me to believe Disney isn't up to the task of building parking, connecting to the streetcar and transit, doing a few more remodeling jobs in the first two parks, and then move ahead. I think Iger wants to do it before he leaves, at least green light it and see shovels moving before handing over the reigns. But that's my speculation based on his Disney career.

  8. #68

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    Re: How is the 3rd gate going to affect attendance at Disneyland and DCA?

    What should happen is a rail line that goes straight to Disneyland, and I'm not talking about paying ten bucks for a ticket. Metro should build a Metro rail. I love how the Red Line goes straight to Universal. It's convenient and fast. I only live maybe fifteen minutes away from Universal, but I take public transportation. I can get to USH in an hour or less using the bus and the rail. It takes me TWO HOURS to get to the DLR. I can't stand that and I'm always trying to find quicker ways to get there (I haven't really been successful). A Metro rail that goes straight to Disneyland seems like an obvious thing to build.

    In regards to the third gate, while I'm not totally against a third gate, I'm fine with just two. I like the convenience of walking back and forth between DL and DCA. A third gate will kind of mess that up for me haha. I also don't want the DLR to turn into WDW, with multiple parks and maintenance problems (we have enough already). I agree with others when they say the third park has to be seriously appealing and popular.
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  9. #69

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    Re: How is the 3rd gate going to affect attendance at Disneyland and DCA?

    Quote Originally Posted by RacerGT View Post
    DCA is still a work in progress; do we actually think that Disney is going to build an outstanding 3rd gate to be what exactly? I mean Star Wars has already been incorporated into Tomorrowland for many years now - what original ideas has anyone come up with for a 3rd gate? So what if Disney did the Marvel acquisition? Are there concrete concepts, original ideas and plans of any kind that are realistic enough to make a 3rd gate a complete success?
    This is exactly what worries me. So far it seems that the only reason TDA wants a third gate is to make use of its ownership of Marvel and Star Wars. So how exactly do you make a third gate out of that? Disney parks weren't made to make use of their film franchising. They are made when someone has a great idea for a park. But so far there is no actual idea to be had with this other than for Disney to make their own "Islands of Adventure". The characters and franchises should be second to the actual idea behind the park.

    Plus let's be honest, the WDC has yet to have huge successes with their second gate parks. Epcot, DAK, and DHS, despite having good starts, eventually went downhill either due to low attendance or poor budgeting. DCA and WDSP began as disasters and both are still trying to recover from that. TDS dodged the bullet because they had the right management and creative people behind that park (most of which were not officially WDC people).

    If the third gate is not successful this could be really bad as far as ensuring the quality of the resort as a whole. They need a long-term budgeting plan, and more importantly long-term good ideas. Which is why it is very concerning that so far their only ideas for a third gate is something to put Marvel and Star Wars stuff in. It may not be DCA 1.0 bad but I can't see it being TDS-quality without the right ideas and budgeting involved, that's for sure.
    Toonaspie: I have Asperger's. I like cartoons. Toonaspie!

  10. #70

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    Re: How is the 3rd gate going to affect attendance at Disneyland and DCA?

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    This is exactly what worries me. So far it seems that the only reason TDA wants a third gate is to make use of its ownership of Marvel and Star Wars. So how exactly do you make a third gate out of that? Disney parks weren't made to make use of their film franchising. They are made when someone has a great idea for a park. But so far there is no actual idea to be had with this other than for Disney to make their own "Islands of Adventure". The characters and franchises should be second to the actual idea behind the park.

    Plus let's be honest, the WDC has yet to have huge successes with their second gate parks. Epcot, DAK, and DHS, despite having good starts, eventually went downhill either due to low attendance or poor budgeting. DCA and WDSP began as disasters and both are still trying to recover from that. TDS dodged the bullet because they had the right management and creative people behind that park (most of which were not officially WDC people).

    If the third gate is not successful this could be really bad as far as ensuring the quality of the resort as a whole. They need a long-term budgeting plan, and more importantly long-term good ideas. Which is why it is very concerning that so far their only ideas for a third gate is something to put Marvel and Star Wars stuff in. It may not be DCA 1.0 bad but I can't see it being TDS-quality without the right ideas and budgeting involved, that's for sure.
    The nature and style of both Marvel and Star Wars are much more similar to each other then they are to any of the lands in the original gates and are extremely popular. I don't think that there's anything wrong about building a park concept around the properties that you want to include. Something like heroes is an obvious theme for the park overall and would provide plenty of opportunities for other ideas besides only Marvel. Plus, Star Wars and Marvel are both hugely popular. They have both an incredible hardcore fan base and now an overall appeal to the more mainstream audience as well. If they invest properly they should have no problem making in incredible park with these properties as the central focus. It might not be my personal preference, but I have no doubt it will be a huge hit as long as they don't go cheap.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  11. #71

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    Re: How is the 3rd gate going to affect attendance at Disneyland and DCA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    The nature and style of both Marvel and Star Wars are much more similar to each other then they are to any of the lands in the original gates and are extremely popular. I don't think that there's anything wrong about building a park concept around the properties that you want to include. Something like heroes is an obvious theme for the park overall and would provide plenty of opportunities for other ideas besides only Marvel. Plus, Star Wars and Marvel are both hugely popular. They have both an incredible hardcore fan base and now an overall appeal to the more mainstream audience as well. If they invest properly they should have no problem making in incredible park with these properties as the central focus. It might not be my personal preference, but I have no doubt it will be a huge hit as long as they don't go cheap.
    excellent points uncle bob! TDA wants a 3rd gate for that same reason they want to target the young teen demographic especially males with Marvel and Star Wars !

  12. #72

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    Re: How is the 3rd gate going to affect attendance at Disneyland and DCA?

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmineray View Post
    What should happen is a rail line that goes straight to Disneyland, and I'm not talking about paying ten bucks for a ticket. Metro should build a Metro rail. I love how the Red Line goes straight to Universal. It's convenient and fast. I only live maybe fifteen minutes away from Universal, but I take public transportation. I can get to USH in an hour or less using the bus and the rail. It takes me TWO HOURS to get to the DLR. I can't stand that and I'm always trying to find quicker ways to get there (I haven't really been successful). A Metro rail that goes straight to Disneyland seems like an obvious thing to build.

    In regards to the third gate, while I'm not totally against a third gate, I'm fine with just two. I like the convenience of walking back and forth between DL and DCA. A third gate will kind of mess that up for me haha. I also don't want the DLR to turn into WDW, with multiple parks and maintenance problems (we have enough already). I agree with others when they say the third park has to be seriously appealing and popular.
    You're in good company. I've been advocating for mass transit to the Disneyland resort since the earliest years of Micechat, in 2005.

    Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort
    One thing that bothers me about the Disneyland Resort is that unlike Tokyo, Hong Kong and Paris resorts, there are no rail connections to the parks.

    Walt Disney World may or may not get hooked up to some Orlando Airport to DisneyWorld line, but they have the Magical Express service for now.

    However, if you want to go to Disneyland, you have to drive in California.

    What if the MiceChat community got a petition or letter writing campaign going to encourage the City of Anaheim to pursue such a rail link to Los Angeles...

    Too bad there are not shuttles every 1/2 hour between Universal Studios and Disneyland, that would be great too. It's just such a shame that you have to drive through so much traffic to get there.

    I thought there might be some others on here who might agree. We need the same rail links here that the intl. parks all have.
    (Posted 10/21/05): Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    Please visit us.... See also: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

  13. #73

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    Re: How is the 3rd gate going to affect attendance at Disneyland and DCA?

    If the first gate is Disneyland, the second gate was Eisnerland... I think Bob wants to cement his legacy with Igerland as the third park.

  14. #74

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    Re: How is the 3rd gate going to affect attendance at Disneyland and DCA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    The nature and style of both Marvel and Star Wars are much more similar to each other then they are to any of the lands in the original gates and are extremely popular.
    I hope the third park, even if it's heavily focused on Marvel and Star Wars, also has some original theme park content not based on movie franchises and comic book properties.

  15. #75

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    Re: How is the 3rd gate going to affect attendance at Disneyland and DCA?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    I hope the third park, even if it's heavily focused on Marvel and Star Wars, also has some original theme park content not based on movie franchises and comic book properties.
    Me too. I also think they should make room for some other Disney and Pixar properties as well. I think with a theme like heroes they could include lots of other ideas and still make it all somewhat cohesive.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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