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  1. #31

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    Re: Should we go back to the Ticket Book system?

    I like both but I'm kind of used to the passports now. The ticket book was a neat deal in my youthful opinion. Your choices were there and you had to make the hard choice of which attraction was the better choice. It was a bonus when you had unused tickets from other visits and you could extend your choices. As a CM in 1979, I was able to purchase an unlimited ride ticket for about $8.00. Boy, that was the end for the ticket book for me.

  2. #32

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    Re: Should we go back to the Ticket Book system?

    Quote Originally Posted by mousedaddy View Post
    To me this is an interesting idea not only would it change the way we visit the park but then what would we do with the entitled AP holders. (oops did I say that out loud)

    Wow.

    obviously, it would make an AP a much grander value to pay for. (I'm sorry, to be entitled to, because paying for something is like a gift given from the gods)

  3. #33

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    Re: Should we go back to the Ticket Book system?

    If it went back to ticket books I would never go again, and that's not lip service. I absolutely hate visiting amusement parks where each ride costs tickets. It really interferes with my enjoyment to have to apply a dollar value to each ride and decide, each and every time, if it's worth it. Is the ride worth the initial value? Is a different ride MORE worth it? What about the 2nd time on the ride, still worth it? 3rd??

    And then imagine having to stand in front of every ride and consider this... I would be a nervous wreck of analysis paralysis. It sounds like a nightmare.

    Seriously. Never go again. No, not ever, no.

    Luckily, this will not happen. Thank heavens.

  4. #34

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    Re: Should we go back to the Ticket Book system?

    Quote Originally Posted by KingEric View Post
    ...
    The current WDC is a company that is profit driven. While Florida is my home I do love Disneyland. And on both coasts you have an issue when an attraction long out lasts it's welcome, and I believe that the Ticket Books would be the answer to these stale parks.

    With each attraction considered it's own "profit center" the Walt Disney Company would be driven to drive as many guests through each attraction, and increase guest spending as much as they could.

    Let's look at the Fastpass attractions at Disneyland:

    • Autotopia
    • Big Thunder Mountain
    • Indiana Jones Adventure
    • Roger Rabbits Cartoon Spin
    • Space Mountain
    • Splash Mountain
    • StarTours


    With FastPass Disney is essentially telling tourists (not you super savvy locals) that these attractions warrant your special attention, and are the cream of the crop.

    But if given the opportunity to pay per attraction would you be willing to pay the same amount for Autotopia as you would for Indiana Jones Adventure? Probably not.

    Looking beyond simple comparison, the ticket book system would force Disney to take under performing attractions and truly develop that area into an attraction that drives guests through. I think the overall effect would be less staleness, and more constant improvement in the product as a whole.
    ...
    I know I'm slow. But help me out here. How does buying tickets accomplish the goals above?

    "Back in the day", we would buy a ticket book with our admission. It came with a few E Tickets, a few D's, C's, B's and A's. We would often have unused A tickets at the end of the day. By buying the ticket book, I guess you could say we were still "subsidizing" the poorer quality rides. I would think most people (esp tourists) would by a ticket book and not individual tickets.

    How many people would by individual tickets? "Gimme 20 E tickets".

    I don't see who tickets would make each ride a profit center. When Disney was sold as a whole park (with ticket books).
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  5. #35

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    Re: Should we go back to the Ticket Book system?

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    It would be easier to go paperless (treehuggers!), and allow for machines to read cards to see what is left.
    Heck, they wouldn't even have to classify attractions in some arbitrary fashion as "A-E tickets."
    You pay some amount (say $50). It goes on your card.
    You swipe it at the entrance of an attraction.
    Your card gets debited the price of entrance for that moment in time -- so in a newly created "off-season," attraction entrance would be lower, while in high-season there would be higher attraction entrance prices.

    My "cafeteria" has a no-register set-up. You "order" and pay for your meals at a "kiosk" then the cook makes your meal. Even the "TAP" card on the LA Subways is using advanced technology that Disneyland hasn't adopted.

    This method could still allow the use of an "AP Program" An AP would only get one into the park, not onto the attractions, so it would cost a lot less. Say, $200 a year, while entrance for single day would be, say, $30.
    I would hope Disneyland is not dumb enough to use a card system. We have cards for our laundry room at our apartment complex. You have to insert the card every time you want to start the washer or dryer. When the card runs low on money you have to walk clear across the complex to the single machine, that doesn't take credit cards and only accepts bills. Half the time, the bills won't go through the machine unless they are crisp and new from the bank. Disneyland would have to put recharging stations for cards fairly frequently throughout the parks, and can you imagine having to wait in line three times, once to fill your card, once to use your card, and then the line for the actual ride. And they couldn't put the machine at the start of the line, because people could cut under the rope or chains to get in line without paying. And they would have to police people who try and get in line.

    That people are even interested in buying individual tickets for rides is mind boggling to me. Disneyland figured out years ago that ticket books was not as profitable as single day tickets. Nothing has changed that. When they had ticket books, they wouldn't make money off of grandparents who didn't want to ride the rides. With Disney's current system, they make a fortune whether you want to ride the rides or not. Some people, like myself don't ride all of the rides (I don't ride rollercoasters) so Disney makes as much money off of me as everyone else. That is not Disney's fault, but my own for paying it when I can't ride a good portion of the rides.

  6. #36

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    Re: Should we go back to the Ticket Book system?

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Maybe a kiosk or, and I know this sounds really radical, they could just print up the books like Walt did.

    No, like Walt, I am sure they could price things based on consumer demand. If Casey got too crowded, they could bump it up a catagory (ie, charge more). If Space got too deserted, they could bump it down.

    Enough to discourage 1+ hour long lines but not so much that no line ever develops.....it's not rocket science (pun so intended)
    Dynamic pricing is what airlines do and some concert goers find out. If customer service is crap now, just wait and see full mayhem in the parks.

    This approach to Space Mountain is most interesting. If it gets too crowded, bump it higher. If it gets less busy, bump it lower. This will create a bunch of discouraged park guests who will sit around waiting for the prices to get affordable. Then rush the gates. Then mass desertion when prices get too high.

    Sometimes when I go to the local fair, the carnival rides seldom have lines. People ration their tickets. The rides are not noteworthy. So if Disney adopts this approach, they won't need dynamic pricing. The tickets will force people to ration their tickets. Disney will have rides that are barely profitable. They are essentially leaving money on the table. People will not stay in the park very long. If unable to enjoy the rides, they will leave. If you already know how amusement parks work, they encourage people to eat and buy merchandise. In-park spending goes down.

    It's not rocket science that worrying about rides to the detriment of the bottom line.

  7. #37

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    Re: Should we go back to the Ticket Book system?

    Disneyland was not the first to get rid of the ticket books. Knotts was first. Disneyland was just following an industry trend and was late to the game. Disney was in no way being a trendsetter back in the days when they decided to get rid of the books.

    And Disney did make money off of people who didn't want to go on the rides. When I would go with my mom she had the option of buying a ticket that just let her into the park. I would think that the park made money off if that. And sometimes she did buy this pass. She would shop at Pendleton while I would go on the rides. But most of the time she bought herself a full-fledged ticket book and I would use the tickets she didn't use in case I needed more. But usually all her tickets weren't used up, so we would keep them at home and bring them with us to use the next time we went to the park.

  8. #38

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    Re: Should we go back to the Ticket Book system?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Okay, you want dynamic pricing like what airlines do and some concert goers find out. Wonderful. If you think customer service is crap now, just wait and see full mayhem in the parks.
    Trust me...in the days of ticket books there was far less "mayhem in the park" than there is now.

    Your approach to Space Mountain is most interesting. If it gets too crowded, bump it higher. If it gets less busy, bump it lower. What you might actually get is a bunch of discouraged park guests who will sit around waiting for the prices to get affordable. Then rush the gates. Then mass desertion when prices get too high.
    I am afraid you misunderstood me.......I meant when the lines changed in an overall/average sense. The "bump" would take place in the middle of the night when the park was closed and only after a two or three week notice.....Just like they did back in the day of ticket books

    Sometimes when I go to the local fair, the carnival rides seldom have lines. People ration their tickets. The rides are not noteworthy. So if Disney adopts this approach, they won't need dynamic pricing. The tickets will force people to ration their tickets. Disney will have rides that are barely profitable. They are essentially leaving money on the table. People will not stay in the park very long. If unable to enjoy the rides, they will leave. If you already know how amusement parks work, they encourage people to eat and buy merchandise. In-park spending goes down.
    Actually, with ticket books --every- ride is profitable. As things stand now they have little incentive to operate attractions such as the Keel Boats, Skyway and Peoplemover for instance.
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  9. #39

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    Re: Should we go back to the Ticket Book system?

    Jeff you know you're living somewhere between the hypothetical and Yesterland, and this is never ever coming back, don't you? Despite the nostalgia, your antiquated sense of practicality about them, and their ability to serve as a determinate of ride popularity, there are just too many reasons why the company doesn't want the hassle any more.

  10. #40

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    Re: Should we go back to the Ticket Book system?

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Trust me...in the days of ticket books there was far less "mayhem in the park" than there is now.
    Especially when the ticket books encourage an attendance ceiling.


    I am afraid you misunderstood me.......I meant when the lines changed in an overall/average sense. The "bump" would take place in the middle of the night when the park was closed and only after a two or three week notice.....Just like they did back in the day of ticket books
    Are we back to seasonal attendance? Disneyland is mostly crowded these days with lesser off-seasons. I will still standby the reality of dynamic pricing. People will talk about it and strategize ways to minimize impact.

    Actually, with ticket books --every- ride is profitable. As things stand now they have little incentive to operate attractions such as the Keel Boats, Skyway and Peoplemover for instance.
    I never said the rides are not profitable, but profits will have a natural ceiling. Disney will leave money on the table in this case, plus the added labor of ticket takers and overhead of a new system to maintain.

  11. #41

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    Re: Should we go back to the Ticket Book system?

    It would require a large amount of money initially to impelement a new system like this. The only reason Disneyland would change, even if they found a way to do it for next to nothing, would be to increase revenue. I cannot envision a scenario in which revenues would go up in a system like this.

    Bottom line, Disneyland is not going to revamp their entire marketing and ticketing system unless it will make them significantly more money.

  12. #42

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    Re: Should we go back to the Ticket Book system?

    Yes, absolutely require tickets for the most popular attractions - even for passholders. But you could have it all done electronically - your pass or park ticket can be "recharged" at a kiosk and "spent" at specified attractions.

    I still can't believe people who argue vehemently against ticket books are the same people who are happy to shuffle a handful of fastpasses all day long.

  13. #43

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    Re: Should we go back to the Ticket Book system?

    wow, no offense but all this sound backwards as heck! I don't know about anyone else but when I go to one of the best resorts in the world, I don't want to have to budget the attractions I go on! Dont we have enough budgeting and rationing in our lives? I really don't see any reason this would make a visit more magical. Maybe for the one day one ticket guest that is becoming rarer and rarer? But even then, dealing with limited tickets just sucks in subconscious sort of way.

    And I also don't understand the whole disneyland is supposed to be sipped thing. That implies there is a right and wrong way to enjoy disneyland. Sounds more like the common practice here of wanting to impose rules, prices or methods of experience onto others for personal benefit. Because who benefits most from ticket books and people "sipping" DL? Not the AP population since they supposedly "chug". Not the tourists since they, in a way, "binge" on DL and probably don't want to deal with tickets on vacation of this cost. The ones who want people to go less are the ones who have no choice but to go less! It really isn't our fault that we happen to live here and love the parks.

    I'm sorry and yeah I know, I'm about to get the old "the program is bad, not the holders" but you know what? At this point of being on this site, I can't help but feel subtly attacked and resented by the same people and the same arguments over and over again. I think I know what all this is. Its the exact same thing as AP entitlement, but reversed. A non AP sense of entitlement to a park without people who do this, that, hold this kind of ticket, eat here, spend this amount etc.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  14. #44

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    Re: Should we go back to the Ticket Book system?

    Quote Originally Posted by KingEric View Post
    the ticket book system would force Disney to take under performing attractions and truly develop that area into an attraction that drives guests through. I think the overall effect would be less staleness, and more constant improvement in the product as a whole.
    Each ride has a turnstile attached to it that does the exact same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlawwhiskey View Post
    I would hope Disneyland is not dumb enough to use a card system. We have cards for our laundry room at our apartment complex…
    Somehow, I think the ones at Disneyland would be a little more high-tech.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlawwhiskey View Post
    Disneyland would have to put recharging stations for cards fairly frequently throughout the parks, and can you imagine having to wait in line three times, once to fill your card, once to use your card, and then the line for the actual ride. And they couldn't put the machine at the start of the line, because people could cut under the rope or chains to get in line without paying. And they would have to police people who try and get in line.
    This isn’t new ground. The “charging stations” that you stated they would have to place throughout the park are analogous to the ticket booths that they had in each land when the ride tickets were still used. As far as rope jumping to get into the line, it wouldn’t be any more than they had when tickets were still used or than Disney gets today with the fastpass line.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  15. #45

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    Re: Should we go back to the Ticket Book system?

    It genuinely boggles my mind that anyone would like to see DL as a pay-to-ride park. I just can't even wrap my head around it. I really thought that was the domain of cheap carnivals.

    But everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just I can usually perceive both sides of an argument (even if I am strongly on one side myself), and in this case I have trouble comprehending the pro-ticket side at all!

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