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  1. #31

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    Re: Dry ice bomber released on OR

    Stop saying "onstage."

  2. #32

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    Re: Dry ice bomber released on OR

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    No, I think Disney should pay the amount especially since the Disney culture is partially at blame.
    The Disney company did not put the bottle in the trash can. The idiot worker did. While the company may be liable for torts committed by its workers in the performance of their duties, this was not such a case. This guy should be held accountable for the expense that he caused the tax payers and the company.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    You really don't forgive very easily do you? The guy made a stupid decision to put the dry ice in the bottle and deserves to be fired, but what you are suggesting is a complete overreaction. People make dumb mistakes in their life but this is hardly intentionally malicious. Community service should be his only punishment. The real ones who deserve to pay for this is the media for blowing it out of proportion with ridiculous words like "explosion" and "bomb" knowing full well that this was someone playing with dry ice.
    So we shouldn’t hold anyone accountable for their actions? If he unnecessarily cost the company and the tax payers money with his stupid stunt, he should have to make restitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Keola Lessary View Post
    This whole thing got blown way overboard. It seems as though this kind of prank has happened before, on numerous occasions.
    Back stage, away from the public. That’s the difference here. This is the first time an area of the park had to be evacuated for this with outside law enforcement coming in to investigate. There is nothing that was blown overboard about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Keola Lessary View Post
    He may have impacted people's day but so does RSR when they shut down
    Apples to Oranges. The racers being shut down is not something that is intentional. That is something going wrong with the machinery that could not be prevented. This is was someone intentionally putting a water bottle in a trash can with the intent that it explodes and scares his coworkers. Also, it is not out of the ordinary for a ride to break down, people expect ride closures every now and then. They don’t expect exploding garbage cans.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Keola Lessary View Post
    and so does that person who texted and got into an accident that shut the I-5 down. Does that mean that that person should rot to death in jail?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Keola Lessary View Post
    One of the managers admit to doing it before when he was an outdoor vendor. Should he be fired too?
    That manager admitted to doing it backstage. Quite a different situation. As to the manager being fired, I bet that if it happens going forward people won’t be keeping their jobs for very long.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  3. #33

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    Re: Dry ice bomber released on OR

    Quote Originally Posted by Big D View Post
    Personally I think that at this point they don't even need to sentence him to anything. They should just drop the charges at this point. He should be fired, and he got a scare having to stay in jail for a few weeks. I think they've made their point.
    He should be fired, made to reimburse the city for the cost of their services related to his stunt, and forced to do community service. Jail time is not going to do this guy any good at all.

  4. #34

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    Re: Dry ice bomber released on OR

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    The Disney company did not put the bottle in the trash can. The idiot worker did. While the company may be liable for torts committed by its workers in the performance of their duties, this was not such a case. This guy should be held accountable for the expense that he caused the tax payers and the company.

    So we shouldn’t hold anyone accountable for their actions? If he unnecessarily cost the company and the tax payers money with his stupid stunt, he should have to make restitution.
    The Disney Company DID put the bottle into the trash can. Thus the company and the employee should be equally responsible. My argument was the company tolerated such pranks and it backfired. An article mentioned that employees routinely did such things and it became the company culture. It is nice to throw around the word taxpayers as if we suffered materially from using the public resources. The taxpayers are also the guests that attend the parks as well as the employees and managers of Disney. So what about the costs? The bigger problem is no one was hurt. No one would have been hurt with a dry ice bomb. It was a prank. Certainly, there are worse pranks, but this one is harmless. Disney should apologize for their lax policies and their tolerance of employee pranks.

  5. #35

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    Re: Dry ice bomber released on OR

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    The Disney Company DID put the bottle into the trash can. Thus the company and the employee should be equally responsible.
    No, the company did not put the bottle in the trash can. That was an act of an individual employee not in the performance of his duty and cannot be attributable to the company.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    My argument was the company tolerated such pranks and it backfired. An article mentioned that employees routinely did such things and it became the company culture.
    The company tolerated them backstage, away from the public. There is no evidence that they ever tolerated them in front of the public. That is the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    It is nice to throw around the word taxpayers as if we suffered materially from using the public resources. The taxpayers are also the guests that attend the parks as well as the employees and managers of Disney. So what about the costs?
    Not sure what you are getting at here. I already stated that he should have to reimburse Disney for the cost of their man power as well as paying the cost of the public utilities that were used.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    The bigger problem is no one was hurt. No one would have been hurt with a dry ice bomb. It was a prank.
    And the reason that we know it was just a dry ice bomb planted as a prank is because there was an investigation into the loud bang that people heard. If there was knowledge of that ahead of time, there would have been no need to waste public resources, waste the time of Disney employees, or impact people’s day at the theme park. But things like this must be investigated to be sure that it wasn’t something more sinister.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Disney should apologize for their lax policies and their tolerance of employee pranks.
    What lax policies? They haven’t had a policy that they had to enforce about setting off explosions onstage because common sense would dictate that it not be done in front of the public.

    As for their quick action when a perceived threat has occurred, I think they acted just fine. They quickly and safely got people out of the area and conducted a proper investigation to determine that it was only a prank.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  6. #36

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    Re: Dry ice bomber released on OR

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    No, the company did not put the bottle in the trash can. That was an act of an individual employee not in the performance of his duty and cannot be attributable to the company.
    A lot of things are not in the job description.

    The company tolerated them backstage, away from the public. There is no evidence that they ever tolerated them in front of the public. That is the difference.
    So they knew??? Vendor carts are usually in the public areas. These pranks happen during a change in shift, which it did.

    Not sure what you are getting at here. I already stated that he should have to reimburse Disney for the cost of their man power as well as paying the cost of the public utilities that were used.
    Disney should bear the costs. The employee owe nothing to Disney.

    And the reason that we know it was just a dry ice bomb planted as a prank is because there was an investigation into the loud bang that people heard. If there was knowledge of that ahead of time, there would have been no need to waste public resources, waste the time of Disney employees, or impact people’s day at the theme park. But things like this must be investigated to be sure that it wasn’t something more sinister.
    Certainly, it should be investigated. Manager's lack of knowledge of such pranks should be questioned. Thus I said Disney management has tolerated the pranks for way too long. For Disney to claim ignorance of their own vendor cart culture is laughable.

    What lax policies? They haven’t had a policy that they had to enforce about setting off explosions onstage because common sense would dictate that it not be done in front of the public.
    Exactly that and see above. Common sense suggests this is routinely performed in the public. The problem was there were two dry ice bombs insteady of merely one. The janitor should not have been the recipient of the first one. It was meant for other vendor cart CMs.

    As for their quick action when a perceived threat has occurred, I think they acted just fine. They quickly and safely got people out of the area and conducted a proper investigation to determine that it was only a prank.
    Yes, because Disney management was out of the loop. That should be obvious.
    Last edited by StevenW; 06-18-2013 at 09:34 AM.

  7. #37

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    Re: Dry ice bomber released on OR

    The pranks happen backstage, at outdoor vending office where you make the dry ice. It's usually the glow vendors that do it, because they have to be at the park in the late afternoon (4 - 5pm or so) and get all of their stuff set up (putting batteries in glow swords, etc.) for their glow cart that night, and often they end up with a lot of free time on their hands before it gets dark. Or it could be very tired vendors trying to have some fun at 1:00AM after the park has closed. Or it could be stockers or reliefs who aren't assigned to specific carts all day and have to go to the ODV office to get supplies for a cart in the park that is about to run out of something (such as dry ice).

    There was always an understanding among all vendors that you never, ever do anything that would affect the guest experience onstage. We can't even drink anything onstage, even when it's really, really hot outside, because they don't want the guests to see the cast members as being uncomfortable or anything other then cheerful and ready to help. The ONLY time that any pranks were ever done onstage was when it was a last-day prank, because if you did a prank onstage and you got caught, it was going to be your last day whether you intended that or not. And the only one I really remember in the three years that I worked there was that someone put a teal ODV jacket on the native american that waves to you on the rivers of America. Doing ANYTHING to negatively impact the guest experience is a line that just can't be crossed. But backstage, anything goes that isn't that dangerous.
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  8. #38

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    Re: Dry ice bomber released on OR

    Quote Originally Posted by John Keola Lessary View Post
    This whole thing got blown way overboard. It seems as though this kind of prank has happened before, on numerous occasions. Terrorists have actually succeeded here. Making people so terrified that a small prank will have a young man's life ruined. He didn't hurt anyone. He may have impacted people's day but so does RSR when they shut down and so does that person who texted and got into an accident that shut the I-5 down. Does that mean that that person should rot to death in jail? When did the US get so cynical and lose their compassion and tolerance for such small, and most times fun, pranks? One of the managers admit to doing it before when he was an outdoor vendor. Should he be fired too?
    exactly. in my view i called that two face society.

  9. #39

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    Re: Dry ice bomber released on OR

    2 compelling arguments here.
    1. The kid was not really a kid...21-22? he really should have known better at that age, regardless of the "pressures' from the company culture.
    2. While the reaction was warranted (closing off the area , panic etc) there was no loss of life and no physical damage done.

    Certainly this young man should be punished, but I think that the first, heavy handed judgement was too much(500K?really).

  10. #40

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    Re: Dry ice bomber released on OR

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
    I agree training and management is partially responsible for this, as well. Very well appears that there was a precedent set previously for looking the other way for the same type of prank being pulled, several times in the past. I don't have sympathy for him pulling this in the park when it was open, but this kid has already spent more time in jail than ALL other Cast members who have done a similar thing, and lost his job. Just how many other Cast Members have lost their job for placing dry ice in a plastic bottle?
    Just have to emphasize again that both training and management are partly responsible for this incident, with their ignoring similar incidents in the past.

  11. #41

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    Re: Dry ice bomber released on OR

    All I keep hearing from people that are defending this young man is that it was a "prank" and that it "spooked" a few people.

    It doesn't matter. It's the actions that took place and where it took place due to this young man's immaturity and stupidity.

    Ask yourself, would it be considered just a "prank" and "spooked" a few people if people actually got harmed in anyway?

    I think the initial fine was too much. However, whether it was Disney, or the police department, it's clear they needed to put out the message that this type of behavior would not be tolerated, whether it was an "prank", or an "attack".

  12. #42

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    Re: Dry ice bomber released on OR

    Quote Originally Posted by moregumboplease View Post
    While a felony may sound harsh, I don't feel sorry for him to be honest, calsig brings up some excellent points to support my stance. Today we live in a much different society where incidents such as this shouldn't be taken lightly, and a message has definitely been sent to others that this kind of behavior won't be tolerated. To me it is a step in the right direction to help curb others from thinking they can do this, and only get away with a "slap on the wrist" more or less.

    All in all, it is an unfortunate situation.
    I agree... was he absolutely sure it would not be harmless? Play worst case scenario, someone pushing the lid as the explosion happens, is the explosion of gasses and the debris it might throw... harmless in the open eyes of a child?
    the fact seems to be he did not think of safety, discomfort or expense to guests (many save for a long time for a visit and take time from work and travel far, this wasn't a tree branch falling or an attraction closure) or employer. He made a decision, I don't feel sorry for him... he weighed up the situation and made a decision for himself not the safety, well being or enjoyment of others.
    I think "pranks" come under the category of veiled hostility, like the friend who digs at you when a cute guy is nearby or in front of the boss, then says "you're too sensitive, I didn't mean anything by it".... they try to convince you that you are the one who is in error (the new sin, now that sin is cool, "negative" or "judgmental" (having judgement and discretion)) . Thoughtful people don't want to ruin the day for others..... too often people who want others uncomfortable do "pranks"
    What ever his reasons, excusing it will not promote more responsible behavior in him or others.

    I've been reading of the "tragic accident" of the kid who was doing 100 mph, killed himself and his friends in the car.... similar situation... it was not an accident, he was traveling at a speed that imperiled the lives of his passengers and he killed them.

    I would dearly love to see responsibility come back into fashion and people stop believing there is something wrong with them for being discerning....
    Last edited by GwenRowan; 06-24-2013 at 10:24 AM. Reason: spelling, clarify

  13. #43

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    Re: Dry ice bomber released on OR

    ​At his age, "thoughtful" is not usually an applicable adjective. Some kids are, but overall... not so much.
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