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Thread: The State of DL

  1. #76

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    Re: The State of DL

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    Honestly I think a lot of the complaints on this board are born from the phrase "familiarity breeds contempt." Many of the people on these boards go to Disneyland very often, and so they're more likely to see these negative things simply by virtue of being around more often than the average guest. In other words, if you watch a movie 50 times you're going to notice more of the flaws in that movie than someone who's only seen it once or twice.
    I see what you are saying. Threads like this make it sound like we are back to the days before the 50th anniversary when things really didn't look as fresh and clean. I go a few times a month and i still don't nit pick or look for whats going wrong at the parks.

  2. #77

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    Re: The State of DL

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    Honestly I think a lot of the complaints on this board are born from the phrase "familiarity breeds contempt." Many of the people on these boards go to Disneyland very often, and so they're more likely to see these negative things simply by virtue of being around more often than the average guest. In other words, if you watch a movie 50 times you're going to notice more of the flaws in that movie than someone who's only seen it once or twice.
    I would have to agree with this completely. I went for the first time in my 40's in May and I had an amazing time and never really saw anything out of place or any issues with the CMs. I was always commenting to my wife how clean/new everything looked and how incredibly nice the CMs were always allowing my wife to choose certain seats on rides or talking to us about how unique a toy gun in Adventureland was. Even Tomorrowland looked absolutely incredible to me not even realizing the tracks above were not monorail tracks but a long lost ride. Only after getting so into the history of Tomorrowland when I returned do I see all the great things it used to be and what it could become.
    Being a web designer/developer I see this all the time. I create a website that gets absolute rave reviews from clients and 6 months later you'd think they had the worst website on the planet nitpicking of all things the stock model in the small chat button, when the site is far and above any of their competition in design and functionality. After freshening up some ads and slides they are a happy again for another 3-6 months.
    I see the parallel.

  3. #78

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    Re: The State of DL

    Quote Originally Posted by bezerkus View Post
    I see the parallel.
    Imagine if people had visited your website when they were young and now have memories of it which are distorted by nostalgia and the passage of time to the point that nothing you could do today would match their expectations .

  4. #79

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    Re: The State of DL

    I remember it well, Ortizmo.

    I had to buy black socks a few times in the machine backstage, too.

    I know some of the things I point out might seem nit-picky, but I think as a former CM you tend to see these things differently.

    I'm with you, Ortizmo. I still have a hard time with costumes outside the berm. It used to be the magic remained almost entirely behind the main gate. You walked through the turnstiles and it all came to life. And as a CM it was a place where you played a role and keeping the costumes inside the park made it easy to feel like you were playing a part in the overall show.

    I remember the first time I put on my costume and name tag for my training on Autopia. I don't think it would have felt the same had I put it on at home and driven to the park in costume. And I think guests seeing me in costume before they got inside the park would have made for a different experience.

    When it comes to things Disney, I tend to be, yes, somewhat of a Golden Age Thinker.

    I'm not one to see that as a bad thing though. Many of those philosophies and practices that Disney had in place, worked. And it's what separated Disneyland from the rest.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ortizmo2000 View Post
    100% agreement. As a former CM I can tell you that as of 1990 none of that behavior was tolerated by the Leads or Supervisors. Even though it's been in place for years, I still cannot wrap my head around seeing costumes out in public (former Anaheim resident) at Target or riding down Euclid on a bicycle.

    I myself had been reprimanded for unnecessary use of shades or my hair creeping a millimeter past my collar.

  5. #80

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    Re: The State of DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Rammikin View Post
    Imagine if people had visited your website when they were young and now have memories of it which are distorted by nostalgia and the passage of time to the point that nothing you could do today would match their expectations .
    I'm not so sure it's a distortion by nostalgia. For me it's recognizing what worked. And it's what made Disneyland unique and what it was that separated the park from the rest.

    In the meantime, I think it's okay to look at the past. It's okay to learn from the past. And sometimes I think it's okay to just leave things that are working alone.

    Walt believed in seeing his park evolve. He oversaw changes. But there were some things that remained a constant. And those things, I feel, provided a structure that not only worked but created a Disneyland that set it apart. And a huge part of that were expectations of his CMs.

  6. #81

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    Re: The State of DL

    And this is one of the things you'll often see discussed on these boards. Certain aspects of the park that were great, and gave us more than just hints of what the park could be.

    It isn't unusual to look at the past when it comes to Disneyland. It does help us to see what things could be in certain areas of the park.

    Does it means everything is wrong with the park nowadays? No. It just means there are some things that worked, and standards that were set. And I think it would have been okay to keep some of those intact.

    And so the debate continues. Which, for an opinions-based board such as this, is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by bezerkus View Post
    I would have to agree with this completely. I went for the first time in my 40's in May and I had an amazing time and never really saw anything out of place or any issues with the CMs. I was always commenting to my wife how clean/new everything looked and how incredibly nice the CMs were always allowing my wife to choose certain seats on rides or talking to us about how unique a toy gun in Adventureland was. Even Tomorrowland looked absolutely incredible to me not even realizing the tracks above were not monorail tracks but a long lost ride. Only after getting so into the history of Tomorrowland when I returned do I see all the great things it used to be and what it could become.
    Being a web designer/developer I see this all the time. I create a website that gets absolute rave reviews from clients and 6 months later you'd think they had the worst website on the planet nitpicking of all things the stock model in the small chat button, when the site is far and above any of their competition in design and functionality. After freshening up some ads and slides they are a happy again for another 3-6 months.
    I see the parallel.

  7. #82

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    Re: The State of DL

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    I am currently enjoying five days at the DLR (overlooking Paradise Piezr from my GCH villa as I write this) and am, of course, having a great time. However, there are some things I have noticed that concern me a bit about the direction of this wonderful resort.

    1. The Staff--this one surprises me...usually I see nothing but happy CMs at any Disney park, but this time around boy is it different. Never have I seen such a collection of incompetent, unhappy, and downright rude employees. If they know what they're doing, they are extremely rude about it. If they are actually somewhat pleasant they are completely clueless and hold up your day. For instance, our waitress at the Carthay Circle was a very pleasant woman, but our service was dreadfully slow (at 5 PM) and we had to tell her about our World of Color reservation before we were given that menu/our tickets. Then when you see people who are capable (crowd control, attractions, etc) they don't know the words please, thank you, etc they just boss around orders. The absolute worst are the ticket takers who are both unpleasant AND inefficient--hardly any greetings from anyone, but a lot of slow people not sure of what they're doing (this problem is only exacerbated by the fact that they now have the insane policy of checking photos BEFORE scanning the ticket--seriously get the fingerprint system!!!) I am not looking forward to interacting with anymore CMs on this trip

    2. The Condition of the Parks--peeling paint everywhere, dirty sidewalks, and its not even peak season. Though I do commend them on using themed construction walls around BTMRR, the deteriorating state of the rest of the parks worries me a little. The gold standard set by Disney is being violated by Disney. Also, I've seen more busted AA's and show effects on the rides here than in any WDW park, meaning I can't take anymore criticisms of WDW seriously anymore...which brings me to...

    3. Maintenance--maintenance is a joke here. Never have I been in a park with SO many rides breaking down a day. It's ridiculous, and nowhere else would you find such poor maintenance of rides...not Universal, not Six Flags, not even WDW as so many people like to hate on. Never in WDW have three major rides been down at once. And this is not just this trip--it's a common theme for every DL visit for our favorite rides to be broken several times throughout the day, especially when we want to ride them. I feel bad for one-time visitors who can't experience the big name attractions because they're constantly broken. And I also feel bad for locals who come to parks full of broken rides.

    Other than those issues, I have had and will continue to have a great time here. But DLR just isn't as perfect as it used to be, or as perfect as people make it out to be. Hopefully by my next trip it will be back to living up to its name.
    We (my g/f and I) actually got stuck on Space Mountain on Sunday. We skipped it because the wait was 70 minutes (came back after Star Tours, it was 45-55) and right as we're going up the lift, I hear the emergency spiel "Attention all space pilots; all rockets have been placed in a holding pattern. Please remain seated."

    Guess what happens after we hit the mini hill before the middle steep drop? Yup. Brakes lock, music keeps going, and the lights came on about 10 minutes after. Kind of cool to see the place lit up. It also was pretty weird to hear the sound effects going off without music. Luckily, it wasn't serious enough for an evac. Turns out it was a loading problem at the station (ugh and the parks were unbelievably busy) and we got to go again (no hiccups).

    HOWEVER we did get stuck on Pirates in the end...seems like it was Murphy's Law Day at the parks.

    As far as CMs go...I've had pleasant experiences with them, hardly any trouble. I actually made this one CM's day by just randomly starting up a conversation during closing time...she didn't realize how deep in conversation we were. LOL

    Disney needs some TLC, for sure. With the rush of crowds and affordability of passes (can't do much about it unless you want to price everyone out), it's going to be tough to get the DLR in tip top shape. Perhaps we'll see refurbs at the end of summer...or so I hope. I decided to keep my pass until I get priced out because I love going early in the morning, walking around, taking pictures with the characters (and seeking out rare characters now that summer is here) and so much more...

    Hopefully something is done to keep me and the rest of us guests satisfied. The CMs may be a little grouchy because they're overworked and stressed out...plus after Sunday's crowds, I don't blame them for feeling frayed.

  8. #83

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    Re: The State of DL

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    Honestly I think a lot of the complaints on this board are born from the phrase "familiarity breeds contempt." Many of the people on these boards go to Disneyland very often, and so they're more likely to see these negative things simply by virtue of being around more often than the average guest. In other words, if you watch a movie 50 times you're going to notice more of the flaws in that movie than someone who's only seen it once or twice.
    I have a solution for that....
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  9. #84

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    Re: The State of DL

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    I have a solution for that....
    Glove cleaner?
    Waiting for Godot Micechat.com

  10. #85

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    Re: The State of DL

    Nostalgia?

    What we're nostalgic for is imagination, originality, creativity, beauty, character, humor, fun, immersiveness, atmosphere, and the oft-mentioned "magic" which is a combination of emotions that lie within the guest already and are brought to the surface by the park and its features and atmosphere and the cast members. We're nostalgic for those intangible qualities, not for any specific object that is now gone from the park.

  11. #86

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    Re: The State of DL

    Quote Originally Posted by soothseyer View Post
    The CMs may be a little grouchy because they're overworked and stressed out...
    Aren't they mostly part-time employees? If part-time employment is overworked, I would hate to see what happens if they had a job in the real world.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  12. #87

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    Re: The State of DL

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Aren't they mostly part-time employees? If part-time employment is overworked, I would hate to see what happens if they had a job in the real world.
    Just because they are at Disney p/t doesn't mean the employees don't have another full-time job, or go to school full-time and just because a job is part-time does not mean one is not overworked.

    To say Disney jobs are not real jobs, well shows what part of the problem is in today's world.

  13. #88

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    Re: The State of DL

    Quote Originally Posted by jsmith11618 View Post
    Just because they are at Disney p/t doesn't mean the employees don't have another full-time job, or go to school full-time
    Anything outside of their job at Disneyland should not affect their performance at Disneyland. It is part of their job to put all that aside when they walk in the door. If they can’t handle that, maybe it is time to reevaluate either their time management or their outside activities, or their job at Disneyland itself. Working part-time and going to school is standard in our modern society. I don’t consider that being overworked. I consider that doing what a normal person does. I was able to handle working full-time (note full-time, not part-time) while going through undergrad, law school, and taking the bar exam. I never felt overworked once.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsmith11618 View Post
    and just because a job is part-time does not mean one is not overworked.
    If all they have is a part-time job and nothing else, I fail to see how that is being overworked. That is a lot of extra time on their hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsmith11618 View Post
    To say Disney jobs are not real jobs, well shows what part of the problem is in today's world.
    I never said that a job at Disneyland was not a real job. Any time you perform a task and get paid for it, it is a real job. I said, knowing that several of these workers are students, “if they had a job in the real world” meaning after they grow up and get their degree and go to work somewhere in corporate America full-time. This means a salaried position where one doesn’t just work their 8 hour shift and go home. You stay until your job is done and then sometimes bring work home with you all while trying to raise a family. The real world is the working world, the one people enter after their education is finished. Some enter it sooner than others depending on the level of education that one achieves.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  14. #89

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    Re: The State of DL

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Aren't they mostly part-time employees? If part-time employment is overworked, I would hate to see what happens if they had a job in the real world.
    I think some of them are, but I'm not sure which ones. I know one of the wheelhouse tour guides was PT I believe by the way he described the schedule. I can understand though if Disney is running thin on staff during this season. I used to work in CS for years before I got an office job. People can be very difficult to deal with and sometimes, you just can't take it. Doesn't mean they have to take it out on the guests who are there enjoying their day.

    I used to get all kinds of crap from customers. It's all about being the better person and not lowering yourself to their level.

    I hope the CMs who are suffering from this can overcome it. To have a job at Disney is something I would've loved to have when I was in college. If I would've only known...oh well! It's one of the better jobs anyone can have because Disney stands for more than just a name.

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    Re: The State of DL

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    Honestly I think a lot of the complaints on this board are born from the phrase "familiarity breeds contempt." Many of the people on these boards go to Disneyland very often, and so they're more likely to see these negative things simply by virtue of being around more often than the average guest. In other words, if you watch a movie 50 times you're going to notice more of the flaws in that movie than someone who's only seen it once or twice.
    I only go to the DLR once a year (because we are going to California anyway and we like using DVC points rather than staying in other hotels around the OC). I usually expect it to be miles better than its WDW cousin. Every single year it's been the best theme park experience to us...except for this year. I was doing the opposite of what you're suggesting. Therefore, I can only imagine how much worse it is perceived by those of you who visit more often.

    As to the CM's argument...c'mon. For all of those saying I should be forgiving because they're tired, stressed, or overworked, I wouldn't mind knowing where you work so I can avoid it. In ANY job you are there to do your job. You're not there to pout. You're not there to be social. The guests are NOT an inconvenience, they are the ones paying salaries (no guests, no revenue, no wages). It is absolutely ridiculous that going down to the park I can't get one 'hello' from any ticket-takers. And it boggles me that crowd control CM's think that because they hold a little light that they can bark orders.

    Start charging me 30 bucks for a ticket and I'll cut the workers some slack.

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