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  1. #76

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    Re: Rude Guest incident - a quick vent

    Quote Originally Posted by KellyMcG86 View Post
    I am a pharmacist. May I ask your qualifications for interpreting the laws?

    My point is that they should be asking if they are an "illegal substance". If you say no, and they still believe it is, then they are beyond their training and have to call in someone else to determine if it is an illegal substance. For them to ask specifically what it is is going beyond information they need to perform their job. Unless they are aware of the schedule class of each medication, they have no knowledge to determine if the medication is schedule II vs. III. They also cannot determine if the medication was prescribed to the person or not, and even if it is labeled they cannot determine if the drug in the bottle matches what is on the label.

    My point is:

    They DID NOT ask if what was in my bottle was an illegal substance. That was clearly not the intent of them bringing it out of my backpack. Therefore, it does not fall under them performing their duty.

    They CANNOT determine medical appropriateness of medications, only if they suspect them to be illegal or not. To do this, they would have to either call in actual security who may or may not be trained, or law encorcement.

    They have no reason to determine WHAT KIND of pills are in a container. Only whether or not they are an illegal substance.

    Beyond all of this, and in rebuttle to every point you've made, is that they are not allowed to share that there are pills at all in the first place with other guests or coworkers (unless that coworker is helping). That is a violation, plain and simple. That is the point we are arguing - they are sharing information with people, which is against the law.
    If you are a pharmacist I'm actually surprised that you do not understand the potential misunderstanding which may arise from keeping pills in unmarked bottles. Not just from a legal standpoint, but also due to practical safety concerns in that keeping pills in foreign containers could be dangerous toother persons in the family if they took the pills believing they are something else.

    But again, to refresh everyone's memory about Disneyland's rules when you voluntarily submit to their security/safety check here is a abbreviated list of their rules.

    Items not allowed inside the park include:



    • Alcoholic beverages
    • Any illegal substances
    • Folding chairs, with the exception of cane-chair and seat-walker mobility aids
    • Glass containers, with the exception of baby food containers, medicine or small perfume bottles (under 4 oz)

  2. #77

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    Re: Rude Guest incident - a quick vent

    Are you completely skipping over the parts where I've repeatedly said that I understand if they were suspecting illegal substances, but that was clearly not the case?

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  3. #78

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    Re: Rude Guest incident - a quick vent

    And please don't lecture me on the consequences of leaving pills in unmarked containers. That's a whole different discussion of which I am happy to educate anyone on.

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  4. #79

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    Re: Rude Guest incident - a quick vent

    Quote Originally Posted by USS Seawolf View Post
    Glass containers, with the exception of baby food containers, medicine or small perfume bottles (under 4 oz)
    You realized it says "with the EXCEPTION" medicine bottle, right? You seemed to have not bolded that part.

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  5. #80

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    Re: Rude Guest incident - a quick vent

    I don't get how waving the bottle around saying "check this out" helps in the least in determining if it's an illegal substance. And from the description of the event it seems he didn't think it was something illegal or even care. He was just impressed by the bottle.

    But, while I agree with almost everything KellyMcG86 posted here, I'm a bit surprised at the description of it being a HIPAA violation. Obviously this poster is very familiar with the law due to her occupation, but as someone who is also very familiar with this statue, I don't think the CM would be considered a covered entity under the privacy rule section. It seems they would not be considered a business associate since the access to the phi is incidental.

    But HIPAA or not, the CM was clearly in the wrong, and if he really did think there was some illegal substance in the bottle, that's not how he should go about handling it.

  6. #81

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    Re: Rude Guest incident - a quick vent

    Quote Originally Posted by KellyMcG86 View Post
    HIPAA does not only apply to medical conditions. ANY medical information is subject to apply to this law. The CM shared that the customer carried an inhaler. This is medical information.
    That is not a HIPPAA violation. The CM did not disclose any information about the person's condition, which would be a violation. If the CM had said to another employee, "here is a guest coming through the line in a wheelchair." That would not be a HIPPAA violation. But if he said, "here is a guest with terminal cancer coming through the line in a wheelchair" that would be a violation. Mentioning a inhaler is not disclosing any condition about the person with the inhaler.


    Quote Originally Posted by KellyMcG86 View Post
    As I explained above - showing a pill container is a HIPAA violation, just as showing an inhaler is.
    Not after you voluntarily submitted to the search AND nothing was asked or mentioned about your condition. If the pills were in original packaging, or in a prescription bottle, and then a CM asked about why you had them, you might have a violation there.

    If you feel that your civil rights were violated by the Disney employee, why don't you contact a lawyer and seek damages?

  7. #82

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    Re: Rude Guest incident - a quick vent

    Because I am not the type of person to sue over something like that. I do not think it was done with any intent to harm, anyway.

    Look, I've stated my case. I feel that the points are getting missed, and it's going in circles, so further discussion is not productive on my part as I feel I'm repeating the same things over and over.

    Sorry for hijacking your thread, Malina! lol

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  8. #83

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    Re: Rude Guest incident - a quick vent

    Quote Originally Posted by Steveman View Post
    But, while I agree with almost everything KellyMcG86 posted here, I'm a bit surprised at the description of it being a HIPAA violation. Obviously this poster is very familiar with the law due to her occupation, but as someone who is also very familiar with this statue, I don't think the CM would be considered a covered entity under the privacy rule section. It seems they would not be considered a business associate since the access to the phi is incidental.
    That is a very good point - I thought I had questioned that earlier (like pages earlier) in a post I made but apparently I only thought it and didn't type it. I do not know if HIPAA, as a law, applies to security. Either way, I wouldn't be looking to sue over any of these incidents anyway. The main issue I have is that sharing this information is still inappropriate and legal or not, it's still an invasion of privacy beyond what a bag check should entail.

    Sorry, just wanted to address that I think you bring up a valid point! I'm trying to be done! Haha

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  9. #84

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    Re: Rude Guest incident - a quick vent

    Quote Originally Posted by KellyMcG86 View Post
    You realized it says "with the EXCEPTION" medicine bottle, right? You seemed to have not bolded that part.
    My apology for not bolding the entire line. But my point was that the CM is not going to know for certain if the glass bottle in question is a medicine bottle unless he inspects it is he? And just because it is a medicine bottle (very vague definition) doesn't mean that if he suspects it to be illegal drugs/items (also on the Disney ban list) doesn't mean that it may not be subject to further inspection.

    I'm sure you are probably a very safety minded person and would not want to see people coming inside the park with guns, knives, or other dangerous items. Not only because it could be dangerous to you and other guests, but also could be dangerous to the person coming in with those items. So why would you be upset if they were also screening for unmarked containers with pills inside? You do realize that could be a problem don't you?

  10. #85

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    Re: Rude Guest incident - a quick vent

    Quote Originally Posted by USS Seawolf View Post
    That is not a HIPPAA violation. The CM did not disclose any information about the person's condition, which would be a violation. If the CM had said to another employee, "here is a guest coming through the line in a wheelchair." That would not be a HIPPAA violation. But if he said, "here is a guest with terminal cancer coming through the line in a wheelchair" that would be a violation. Mentioning a inhaler is not disclosing any condition about the person with the inhaler.
    Yes, it is. How many times does that have to be repeated? A CM is not not allowed to disclose ANY information pertaining to medical needs or conditions - and that includes the pills, inhalers or other medical devices the person might be carrying. It's not just the person's diagnosis; it's ANYTHING related to their medical history. The relevant official text of HIPPAA is as such:

    42 USC § 1320d€“6 - Wrongful disclosure of individually identifiable health information | Title 42 - The Public Health and Welfare | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute

    a) Offense A person who knowingly and in violation of this part—

    (1) uses or causes to be used a unique health identifier;

    (2) obtains individually identifiable health information relating to an individual; or

    (3) discloses individually identifiable health information to another person,


    The medicine you take - or the fact that you take medicine- is protected as individually identifiable health information. Ergo, nobody is allowed to disclose it to another person without your written consent.

    Disneyland does have two medical facilities on site so the argument could be made that they could be a business associate.

    And aside from HIPPA, regardless if the CM is a covered entity, I strongly doubt that Disneyland wants its employees to violate guest privacy as a matter of course. The CMs at City Hall aren't even allowed to ask you for a doctors note if you're getting a GAC - there is clearly a concern to protect guest privacy, including medical history.
    Last edited by Malina; 07-14-2013 at 12:10 AM.
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  11. #86

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    Re: Rude Guest incident - a quick vent

    Quote Originally Posted by Steveman View Post

    But, while I agree with almost everything KellyMcG86 posted here, I'm a bit surprised at the description of it being a HIPAA violation. Obviously this poster is very familiar with the law due to her occupation, but as someone who is also very familiar with this statue, I don't think the CM would be considered a covered entity under the privacy rule section. It seems they would not be considered a business associate since the access to the phi is incidental

    .
    Exactly.

  12. #87

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    Re: Rude Guest incident - a quick vent

    Quote Originally Posted by KellyMcG86 View Post
    Because I am not the type of person to sue over something like that. I do not think it was done with any intent to harm, anyway.

    Look, I've stated my case. I feel that the points are getting missed, and it's going in circles, so further discussion is not productive on my part as I feel I'm repeating the same things over and over.

    Sorry for hijacking your thread, Malina! lol
    No worries, I appreciate the backup! I'm also feeling as though I'm going in circles and my points are being missed and/or ignored, so I'm done here too.
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  13. #88

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    Re: Rude Guest incident - a quick vent

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Yes, it is. How many times does that have to be repeated? A CM is not not allowed to disclose ANY information pertaining to medical needs or conditions - and that includes the pills, inhalers or other medical devices the person might be carrying. It's not just the person's diagnosis; it's ANYTHING related to their medical history. The relevant official text of HIPPAA is as such:

    42 USC § 1320d€“6 - Wrongful disclosure of individually identifiable health information | Title 42 - The Public Health and Welfare | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute

    a) Offense A person who knowingly and in violation of this part—

    (1) uses or causes to be used a unique health identifier;

    (2) obtains individually identifiable health information relating to an individual; or

    (3) discloses individually identifiable health information to another person,


    The medicine you take - or the fact that you take medicine- is protected as individually identifiable health information. Ergo, nobody is allowed to disclose it to another person without your written consent.
    LOL! A CM saying, "hey here is an inhaler" is not a violation of that law.

    Given your misunderstanding of what you just said, a TSA agent would be violating the HIPPAA laws if as he was inspecting your bag at the airport he said, "hey, here is a hypodermic needle!" and other people heard him say it.

    The burden of proof that individual health information has been disclosed by a person who obtained or caused the information to be used by another in a manner not consistent with the law is on you.

    If you saw me walking with a cane, and then told someone else I was walking with a cane, would that be a HIPPAA violation?

  14. #89

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    Re: Rude Guest incident - a quick vent

    So .fitting a CM into a covered entity category seemed like quite the stretch to me. But now that I think about it, since the person whose bag he was searching in this case actually IS a covered entity - a pharmacist - and he took the item from her bag, then he obtained this information from a covered entity....and oh forget it, I'm up too late...
    Last edited by Steveman; 07-14-2013 at 12:23 AM.

  15. #90

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    Re: Rude Guest incident - a quick vent

    Quote Originally Posted by Steveman View Post
    (bold is mine). I really shouldn't nit pick when I actually agree with the general view - but HIPAA does not apply to everyone. Covered entities are defined, and it would be quite the stretch to fit a Disneyland CM into one of them.
    Thank you for the clarification, especially since the application of the HIPPAA laws to nearly every conceivable situation was already sounding absurd.

    My original point was that people who get upset after submitting to a voluntary search are not taking into account their choice to submit to that search. I agree that no Disney employee should be unprofessional, and that they may not be aware how much their comments and demeanor are being observed and possibly misinterpreted by hundreds of people watching them while standing in a line. But to call these instances violations of civil rights is really pushing the boundaries of common sense in my opinion.

    My advise was to just keep the items in your pocket is all. Why even set yourself up to be embarrassed if you are that sensitive to people knowing about your personal effects at a security check point? That was my point.

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