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  1. #46

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    Re: Where is all the Latin presence in California Adventure?

    I was actually surprised that CA didn't have something related to the Missions, since they were so key to the Western settlement of the state (and rather unique to the area)...though I suppose I understand the need to shy away from any overtly religious material.



    That said, reading between the lines in this thread (and it's really not that difficult to) is a bit disappointing and a bit scary. I suppose it's a reminder that Disney is for everyone.

  2. #47

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    Re: Where is all the Latin presence in California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garthilk View Post
    So in fact, California was not originally part of Mexico.

    Semantics.

    I guess you could say that "originally" California was likely underneath the Pacific Ocean, but I think we all understood what the OP meant by his statement.

  3. #48

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    Re: Where is all the Latin presence in California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garthilk View Post
    Yes,

    California like the cultures that predate "Mexico" have been here for 10,000+ years.

    So in fact, California was not originally part of Mexico.

    You could say Alta California or The Province of the California's actually belonged to New Spain I suppose (it would be a gross generalization and not correct). The land California resides on was the home of many other cultures before it was acquired by the Portuguese explorers, then the Spanish missionaries, and then the Mexicans and then the USA.
    Wow!!! you certainly go through great lengths to justify your incorrect argument...OK I will go with that, after all we are in a Disney forum and the main thing with Disney is Fantasy and Imagination. Just so you know you forgot to point out that before the Portuguese discover San Diego the Aboriginals where there, then before them all the bears, cougars, deer, snakes, insects etc etc.. then before that Dinosaurs then before that bacteria then before that Protozoa then before that that blocks of carbon and before cosmic dust and before that empty space ...SO, YES!!! you have a point the earth was not originally the earth!!

  4. #49

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    Re: Where is all the Latin presence in California Adventure?

    Let's be clear on what DCA is.

    It is an amusement park that is loosely themed to some of the aspects of the state of California. It is not an all encompassing historical or cultural study of such. It is not a museum, people go there to be entertained.

    Hispanic culture and history is a large part of California, that there is no doubt. But there are many other historical/cultural/geographical qualities as well.

    To try and fit everything in and give equal time in a themed amusement park is ludicrous.

  5. #50

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    Re: Where is all the Latin presence in California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by AMUSIX View Post
    That said, reading between the lines in this thread (and it's really not that difficult to) is a bit disappointing and a bit scary. I suppose it's a reminder that Disney is for everyone.
    Did you mean to say "is not for everyone"?

  6. #51

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    Re: Where is all the Latin presence in California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by USS Seawolf View Post
    There is still a Indian village on the banks of the Rivers of America last time I checked.
    I was referring to the live shows and any reference to Injuns on Tom Sawyers island but good point!
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  7. #52

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    Re: Where is all the Latin presence in California Adventure?

    Why are people assuming having cultural presence in the parks means having a history lesson? It's possible to separate the two. Unless you're also going to say that the rest of the park reveres white culture and teaches a history lesson of the great achievements of white people, then why do you assume that will be the case with any other culture?

  8. #53

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    Re: Where is all the Latin presence in California Adventure?

    I don't mind if they rename it Disney's Adventure.

    In all sense, whilst I do believe a Hispanic-themed area would be interesting and maybe bring in more tourists, I do not want it. I agree with johnlawwhiskey. Disneyland and DCA are not just the average theme parks. I go to Disney hoping to escape from reality and have fun and meet Disney characters.

    Sure it's called Disney California Adventure, but I think they are trying to represent California as a whole. It seems to me that Disney is representing the regions more than the cultures. And, also, if they bring in the Hispanic theme, I might not be offended, but soon others of different ethnicity will beg for Disney to represent their race and culture. That will be one big mess.

  9. #54

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    Re: Where is all the Latin presence in California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rammikin View Post
    Did you mean to say "is not for everyone"?
    No, just the opposite. The line you quoted sort of says what I meant...don't want to get too much into it, though...just that Disney appeals to all types, which, ultimately, is a good thing.

  10. #55

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    Re: Where is all the Latin presence in California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzopolar View Post
    Wow!!! you certainly go through great lengths to justify your incorrect argument...OK I will go with that, after all we are in a Disney forum and the main thing with Disney is Fantasy and Imagination. Just so you know you forgot to point out that before the Portuguese discover San Diego the Aboriginals where there, then before them all the bears, cougars, deer, snakes, insects etc etc.. then before that Dinosaurs then before that bacteria then before that Protozoa then before that that blocks of carbon and before cosmic dust and before that empty space ...SO, YES!!! you have a point the earth was not originally the earth!!
    Most of what is now California was the bottom of the ocean during the days that dinosaurs walked the earth. So for the most part you will not find any dinosaur fossils in California. But there were bacteria and protozoa...

  11. #56

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    Re: Where is all the Latin presence in California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by AMUSIX View Post
    No, just the opposite. The line you quoted sort of says what I meant...don't want to get too much into it, though...just that Disney appeals to all types, which, ultimately, is a good thing.
    Ahh, I get it. I suspect that will go over some heads here .

  12. #57

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    Re: Where is all the Latin presence in California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by G24T View Post
    I was referring to the live shows and any reference to Injuns on Tom Sawyers island but good point!
    The Indian village and related live shows harken back to a time when Western themed TV shows and therefore related merchandising (**** skin caps, Indian feathers, Indian drums etc) were big sellers and of interest to people; basically the 50s and early 60s. Those days are long gone. When was the last time you saw a kid wearing a 'Davey Crockett' hat?

    So has the sign: "Injun Joe's Cave" been taken down on Tom Sawyers island? I haven't been there in years.


    edited to add: the auto censor software for this forum edited the word I used to describe a fur cap made out of the skin of a dead raccoon. I find that manner of hyper political correctness to be amusing. For the record, I made no disparaging comment there. I find it even more amusing that the word "Injun" which in this context is the name of a character in Mark Twain's The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (the inspiration for the Disneyland attraction), is in fact a recognized disparaging term for American Indians, and was was not auto-censored by the software program.

    Irony at it's best. LOL
    Last edited by USS Seawolf; 07-06-2013 at 12:21 PM. Reason: incorrect reason for a word being censored

  13. #58

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    Re: Where is all the Latin presence in California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by AMUSIX View Post
    I was actually surprised that CA didn't have something related to the Missions, since they were so key to the Western settlement of the state (and rather unique to the area)...though I suppose I understand the need to shy away from any overtly religious material.
    Religion plus the missions/religion's hand in annihilating Indigenous groups...yeah. Staying far far away from that is prudent.

    That said, reading between the lines in this thread (and it's really not that difficult to) is a bit disappointing and a bit scary. I suppose it's a reminder that Disney is for everyone.
    I agree completely. Celebrating everyone's cultures and the gifts they can share are positive things. Disney IS for all to enjoy.
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  14. #59

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    Re: Where is all the Latin presence in California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Religion plus the missions/religion's hand in annihilating Indigenous groups...yeah. Staying far far away from that is prudent.
    That is a gross over exaggeration of the California missions under the Spanish rule. And not to get too far off into the weeds on this, but the California missions continue to be a major tourist draw. The missions represent a key architectural influence on California as well. The religion and political significance does not diminish the richness of the other influences of the missions to this state.

    Given the logic you employed, there should be no architectural homage to any MesoAmerican temples used for indigenous religious ceremonies, or any other religion (temple architecture on Jungle Cruise, Indiana Jones, crosses in the Haunted Mansion graveyard, or the Indian ceremony being depicted along the Rivers of America), basically none anywhere should be included. And I'm not even bringing up the fact that some of those MesoAmerican temples were used for human sacrifices. Is that what you would like to happen? Just curious.

    In contrast, Knott's Berry Farm included in it's 'Camino Real' area models of the California Missions, and not that far away is the Aztec themed Jaguar ride.

  15. #60

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    Re: Where is all the Latin presence in California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by USS Seawolf View Post
    That is a gross over exaggeration of the California missions under the Spanish rule. And not to get too far off into the weeds on this, but the California missions continue to be a major tourist draw. The missions represent a key architectural influence on California as well. The religion and political significance does not diminish the richness of the other influences of the missions to this state.

    Given the logic you employed, there should be no architectural homage to any MesoAmerican temples used for indigenous religious ceremonies, or any other religion (temple architecture on Jungle Cruise, Indiana Jones, crosses in the Haunted Mansion graveyard, or the Indian ceremony being depicted along the Rivers of America), basically none anywhere should be included. And I'm not even bringing up the fact that some of those MesoAmerican temples were used for human sacrifices. Is that what you would like to happen? Just curious.

    In contrast, Knott's Berry Farm included in it's 'Camino Real' area models of the California Missions, and not that far away is the Aztec themed Jaguar ride.
    Please show me where I said all references to religion should be eliminated - right, I didn't. I was specifically talking about missions, which have an extremely loaded history. Unfortunately, the negative historic activities of the missions do color how they are regarded today, and to ignore that history would be a grave mistake.

    IMHO there's no issue with showing references or relationships to religion in a cultural context (Christmas, Hanukkah, Dia de los Muertos and Three Kings Day, crosses in the cemetery, etc.), or showing completely fictional ruins or non-specific ancient temples. That's not the same, at all, as showcasing an existing building with a specific history, that actively engaged in activities that had a grave effect on people living in that area. Under Junipero Serra indigenous people in California were enslaved, many worked as slaves AT the missions, and the population dropped from 300,000 to about 16,000. Regardless of what else he did, or how architecturally pretty the missions might be, that is not something to celebrate.

    That's not trying to bash any specific religion. It's pointing out that bad things went down at these places that had a detrimental effect on California, so showcasing them might be a bit misplaced.

    There can be mission-style architecture without depicting the missions themselves...just as you can show gothic architecture without building a cathedral. Or you can build a house that looks like an 1800s Southern mansion without making it a slave plantation (or based on a nonfictional slave plantation). There are ways to acknowledge the positive aspects of the architecture and cultural influences.

    Plus, most people visiting DLR/DCA aren't going to hop on a plane and visit the Cambodian ruins depicted in Jungle Cruise or Indiana Jones. They can get in their cars or hop on the train and go to the missions. It would be redundant to have copies of things that people can easily visit an hour or two outside of DCA.
    Last edited by Malina; 07-06-2013 at 06:28 PM.
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