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Thread: single rider

  1. #31

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    Re: single rider

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    ^it is abuse though; if a party gets to the front of the singles line and makes a fuss to go altogether, whatever empty seats they would have taken end up going by empty because they didnt want to split up--so it does mess with Disneys ultimate goal as well as those actually waiting in line

    This is when the CM tells the guest if they want to ride all together to wait in the stand by line. The Cast Members have been through that scenario multiple times not to allow families to go together unless there is more than one seat available that they can't fill.


  2. #32

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    Re: single rider

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlawwhiskey View Post
    ... It's not so much the single rider line that is the issue, it's the inconsistency from ride to ride among cm's... It just drives me crazy when cm's, even on the same ride, have different rules about things.
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  3. #33

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    Re: single rider

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlawwhiskey View Post
    What I am saying, is to me, if groups of 12 are let into a single rider line, it's the same as having two separate lines. They send dozens of cars half empty, some completely empty at every ride at Disneyland and DCA, the idea that they are trying to fill every seat is just ludicrous. On Radiator Springs, with a two hour wait I have seen them leave a whole row empty. Why? Because the family wanted it that way. It's not so much the single rider line that is the issue, it's the inconsistency from ride to ride among CM's. I feel like there should be a set of "rules" for ride lines and all rides should follow those rules. It's okay if people disagree with me, but it just drives me crazy when CM's, even on the same ride, have different rules about things.
    Emphasis mine.

    You ARE essentially looking at two separate lines with two separate line philosophies. Most folks seem to get the idea from my experiences at a couple parks. The abusers tend to be abusers - I have in the few years since SR became relatively common only seen one or two cases where I am 100% certain it's not a jackhole local trying to game the system. I don't believe that the system itself is the problem.

    Inconsistent CM enforcement, however, is. But again, this is not a problem with the tool/system in place - if a CM dispatches a mostly empty vehicle because someone is essentially threatening to ruin EVERYONE'S day if they don't get preferential treatment, that is an issue with that CM and their application of company policy. But this also isn't an inherent problem with Single Rider. You could argue that the concept of visiting a public theme park is at fault more successfully - that people just can't get around the concept that they aren't the only group at the park and that sometimes they just have to share a ride vehicle.
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  4. #34

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    Re: single rider

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    Inconsistent CM enforcement, however, is. But again, this is not a problem with the tool/system in place - if a CM dispatches a mostly empty vehicle because someone is essentially threatening to ruin EVERYONE'S day if they don't get preferential treatment, that is an issue with that CM and their application of company policy.
    What I am getting at is there needs to be one set of rules for every ride line in both parks, and those rules needs to be followed.
    Examples of problems I have seen (both single rider and not single rider) - Jungle Cruise operator allows friends on board (fills half the boat), then puts the first person from the handicapped line in the boat, so he "took an actual person waiting in line", and then proceeds to talk over the mic to his friends, and ignore the other person because he can, because no one is stopping him, completely throwing out the Jungle Cruise script.

    Single rider on Radiator Springs seems to be the one that has the most problems. Example 1: group of 10 get in the single rider line. They get to the front and demand to ride together. CM puts them in 2 cars, which bumped everyone in standby line back two cars. Example 2: 1 person gets in the single rider line, the rest of the group gets in the standby line (5 in total in the standby line), person gets to the front of the single rider line, and says the rest of their party is in line, CM pulls the party out of line, and puts them in a car. Example 3: similar situation to example 2, but CM pulls both groups out of line and sends them to the back of the line.

    Dumbo - Example 1: kids under 7 can't ride alone or with someone under the age of 14. Five year old wants to ride, parents don't want to ride, 7 year old brother wants to ride, send the two kids together. Example 2: 5 year old wants to ride, grandma doesn't want to ride, child allowed to ride solo. Example 3: 6 year old wants to ride, so does 12 year old sister. They are denied riding together because sister is not 12.

    Splash Mountain - child denied riding for being an inch too short, but allowed to go on Radiator Springs Racers the same day and be tall enough.

    So the question becomes, whatever the policy, single rider line or otherwise, why don't all cast members have to follow the same policy for ride lines? My theory is because there are so many different policies that most CM's, like most guests, don't know what the policy is for each line.

    It is more about making a consistent rider experience, and the CM's all on the same team, rather than making up the rules and policies as they see fit, then it is about single rider lines, handicapped lines, Fast pass lines, and standby lines.

  5. #35

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    Re: single rider

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlawwhiskey View Post
    So the question becomes, whatever the policy, single rider line or otherwise, why don't all cast members have to follow the same policy for ride lines? My theory is because there are so many different policies that most CM's, like most guests, don't know what the policy is for each line.

    It is more about making a consistent rider experience, and the CM's all on the same team, rather than making up the rules and policies as they see fit, then it is about single rider lines, handicapped lines, Fast pass lines, and standby lines.
    It's not so much whether they are *required* to follow the policies, as whether they *do*. This is where management guidance would be the best solution. Right now you have two very distinctly competing imperatives. First - and in a good park the ultimate priority - you're trying to make sure your customers have a positive, happy experience. Second, you're trying to make sure that the ride operates as close to maximum capacity as possible which will help the first priority. Disney specifically has always been *extremely* tolerant of guest misbehavior up to the point that it gets complaints to the company, so it's unfortunately predictable that they'd have a higher level of issues with allowing abuse of the Single Rider system. I again agree that there needs to be management assistance if this is to be addressed - the CMs should not and cannot be expected to interpret open ended policies consistently across the resort. That's what management is for.

    And again, this isn't an issue with Single Rider. It's no more an issue with that system than an issue with what to do with people who cut in line or any of a legion of garden variety non criminal guest-on-guest negative behaviors. At Disney, for whatever reason, the needle is set just this side of Lord of the Flies.
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  6. #36

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    Re: single rider

    The misuse of, abuse of and confusion over single rider lines is another of the many symptoms of Disney's poor CM training, poor management support of frontline CMs and dysfunctional mishmash of policies. It's a formula that facilitates guest abuse and guarantees frustration for guests and CMs alike.
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    Re: single rider

    That's funny, I don't remember encountering any of this "guaranteed frustration" the last few times I've used the SR lines

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    Re: single rider

    johnlawwhiskey, I have never seen anything like the examples you are giving for RSR. CM's don't fill up whole cars from the single rider line. They fill up cars from the standby and FP lines and then if there is an empty seat or two in a car they pull from the single rider line. They pull whoever is next in line, so even if they need to pull 2 single riders it isn't necessarily riders who know each other.

    If you have seen them filling up whole cars with people from the "single rider" line, I'm going to venture that they were people with special passes, readmittance passes or GAC or something like that. Sometimes what looks like abuse to the average guest is actually something that has a very valid reason.

    I really don't understand being upset about single rider. It doesn't make the wait time any longer for standby because otherwise the cars would just be sent along with empty spots. If anything it makes standby shorter because those people/parties are filling empty holes instead of taking up space in the standby/Fp line ahead of you. It is also something that is offered to all guests so if you are willing to ride alone and fill an empty spot in the car - you are welcome to it! Singe rider is a win-win situation.

  9. #39

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    Re: single rider

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    The misuse of, abuse of and confusion over single rider lines is another of the many symptoms of Disney's poor CM training, poor management support of frontline CMs and dysfunctional mishmash of policies. It's a formula that facilitates guest abuse and guarantees frustration for guests and CMs alike.
    Or how about it's the guests who don't listen, pay attention or follow said guidelines which leads to misuse and abuse of the system... GAC cards ring any bells? Also the training of cast members has NOTHING to do with it, but how the cast members perform AFTER the have knowledge of the attraction.
    Last edited by Kritter; 07-10-2013 at 12:22 PM.


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    Re: single rider

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinkbelle View Post
    johnlawwhiskey, I have never seen anything like the examples you are giving for RSR. CM's don't fill up whole cars from the single rider line.
    I've witnessed the same CM doing this on two separate occasions, the first was what I spoke about, a group of 10 people getting into the single rider line, getting to the front, and then demanding to ride together. This particular CM let them fill not one but two cars as a group, so that they could all ride "together". They did not have fast passes, special passes, GAC, or anything else, this CM caved into their demands. This same CM two months later, let a family of five, who choose to go the single rider line, because it was 40 minutes vs 180 minutes, get up to the front, and ask to ride together, and the CM not wanting to hold things up, let them do it.

    When you mention it, DCA is like "we are just trying to keep the line moving, it's not worth a confrontation, etc". That is why I am so admin that it's not about the single rider line, but it's about the CM's all following the same procedures for each ride.

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    Re: single rider

    Quote Originally Posted by Kritter View Post
    Or how about it's the guests who don't listen, pay attention or follow said guidelines which leads to misuse and abuse of the system... GAC cards ring any bells? Also the training of cast members has NOTHING to do with it, but how the cast members perform AFTER the have knowledge of the attraction.
    It all comes down to management's refusal to develop and deploy effective policies to address problems from line-cutting to GAC abuse; management's poor standards of selecting, training, supervising and supporting the frontline CMs to enforce policies consistently and in a manner that lives up to Disney's world-famous reputation for gold standard customer service; and management's pennypinching habit of not staffing CMs in sufficient numbers. All of which has been going on for years, as has been documented countless times on this forum by DLR guests, CM trainers and frontline CMs.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 07-10-2013 at 01:19 PM.
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  12. #42

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    Re: single rider

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlawwhiskey View Post
    The point that I am trying to make is why the need for a single rider line on some rides, if it's going to create a shorter wait for some people. Why are those people more privileged than anyone else? Why should they get a shorter wait? Why doesn't everyone wait in the same line like they do on Disneyland's other rides, and they ask for a party of two, party of three, party of one, or whatever. On every ride at Disneyland that doesn't have a single rider line, the cast members will ask "party of one" or "party of two" down the row. Why not have that on every ride?

    What I am talking about is one standard policy at Disneyland across all rides. Either make a single rider line for every ride, enforce the whole idea of a single rider line, or get rid of it all together. The inconsistency and the way things differ from ride to ride is one of the things about Disneyland that drives me nuts every visit.
    The single rider lines speed things up for everyone. If the CM who is loading the ride has to shout down the line for "singles," "party of two," etc. every single time they're loading something up, it slows everything down, especially on rides like RSR or Splash where the lines can be very long. If there's a line with single riders and the CM can immediately grab someone and put them in the empty seat, they are using the ride space to its maximum, they're getting someone out of the queue and they are loading that ride faster, which makes it faster for all.

    Also, it certainly doesn't mean those people in SR are "privileged." You're basically bartering a position as a seat filler - which helps Disney and the rest of the queue - in order to have a shorter wait time - which helps you. That wait time isn't a guaranteed thing, either; you can certainly spend a lot of time in SR.
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    Re: single rider

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlawwhiskey View Post
    I've witnessed the same CM doing this on two separate occasions, the first was what I spoke about, a group of 10 people getting into the single rider line, getting to the front, and then demanding to ride together. This particular CM let them fill not one but two cars as a group, so that they could all ride "together". They did not have fast passes, special passes, GAC, or anything else, this CM caved into their demands. This same CM two months later, let a family of five, who choose to go the single rider line, because it was 40 minutes vs 180 minutes, get up to the front, and ask to ride together, and the CM not wanting to hold things up, let them do it.

    When you mention it, DCA is like "we are just trying to keep the line moving, it's not worth a confrontation, etc". That is why I am so admin that it's not about the single rider line, but it's about the CM's all following the same procedures for each ride.
    That's a CM thing, definitely. The CMs shouldn't be allowing those groups into the SR queue or they should send them away if they try to sit together once they reach the front. If that was consistently applied groups would stop trying to abuse the system.
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    Re: single rider

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    That's a CM thing, definitely. The CMs shouldn't be allowing those groups into the SR queue or they should send them away if they try to sit together once they reach the front. If that was consistently applied groups would stop trying to abuse the system.
    I think this is probably the closest to the common thread here?

    The issue does not appear to be with the basic concept when deconstructed. The issue comes to consistent enforcement by CMs.

    With that in mind...

    Where (johnlawwhiskey, looking at you specifically here) is the line between making guests happy and enforcing the rules?

    The CMs placed in the situation where an entire party uses SR and refuses to be split up is in a bad situation. They can refuse to deal with the party and send them back to the Standby line - which will make that group of guests very unhappy and might result in a City Hall moment. They can explain the situation and try to reason with the guest, which delays *everyone* as they wait for the light to dawn, if it ever does. They can pull the offending party aside and wait for a manager, which is probably the lowest amount of grief you're going to get out of the situation but is likely going to get the CM in a LOT OF TROUBLE for not simply "dealing with it". Or they can capitulate, let the idiots board in their inviolable group and accept that while they made THAT group happy they've likely irritated anyone who saw it.

    Disney's attitude towards how cast members should treat guests seems to VERY heavily lean towards capitulation as a first line of defense. Guy cuts in front of you and you complain? Apologize, mumble, wander away. Family littering, spitting all over the place in the middle of the Fantasmic Blanket Zone? Apologize, potentially mention something to the group that is now glaring at you, mumble, wander away.

    It's a standard of conflict avoidance, and who knows? Maybe it does result in the most people overall happy at the expense of a handful of annoyed guests. I hope that's not the case, and watching USH handle it with a bit more stringent standards makes me believe that most guests will willingly conform to the rules so long as they're applied.
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    Re: single rider

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlawwhiskey View Post
    I think single rider lines have become a joke, especially since Radiator Springs Racers. Obvious abuse takes place all the time. I think when there is a party of 10-12 and they go all the way up to the line and then decide to split up, and are all allowed in the single rider line, that the cast members shouldn't allow it, but I understand that their normal policy is that if people want to ride solo, even if they are part of the same group that they can. There have been days when I have seen the single rider line for Radiator Springs top 60 minutes, with the standby line being 2 hours. Most of the people in the single rider line are not riding solo, but are simply seeking a shorter line.
    This.

    I'm not saying everyone abuses the single rider line, but it is being abused. When I was at Disneyland in May I noticed many large parties (mostly for RSR) enter the single rider line and tell the CM they're riding separately. If you have people who go to the park as a group but are willing to ride single to get a shorter line it will happen. And believe me, it is happening. I think single rider lines should be used for the sole purpose of just that. A single rider. Not a group of 5 who is willing to ride in separate ride vehicles just so they wait 25min instead of 60min.
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