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  1. #16

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    Re: Does Optimistic Futurism still have a place in Tomorrowland?

    I think that Disney needs to focus more upon a more distant future, not 30 years but more like 100 years into the future. Now only if Disney could acquire the rights to Star Trek...(I think I have been watching to much of it lately) Maybe they could bring Mission Space to DL in place of Innovations. It would be an E ride and its set in then not to distant future.
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  2. #17

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    Re: Does Optimistic Futurism still have a place in Tomorrowland?

    Hmmmm. This is actually a great question. Can we be optimistic about the future without being nave? Is the future going to be more like Star Trek or Bladerunner ... and where will the whole Star Wars franchise fit into the picture?

    Whatever Disney decides to do with Tomorrowland, it needs to have an overarching "feel" to it and not seem schizophrenic. I don't think we'll ever go back to the old 1950s vision of the future, but Tomorrowland has a ton of potential to be the most exciting, kenetic, and thought-provoking land in the park. Other than Space Mtn. and Star Tours, I would love for them to rip everything else out at once and just do a major overhaul like they did with DCA.

    Here's to a "great big beautiful tomorrow" for Tomorrowland.

  3. #18

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    Re: Does Optimistic Futurism still have a place in Tomorrowland?

    No, I don't think so. First of all, an optimistic future leaves no room for conflict, thus no room for stories. I'm sorry but I don't want a tomorrowland with heavy-handed education and optimism shoved down my throat. Its the same reason I hated how DCA 1.0 tried to do the same with california.

    I personally find dystopian themes a lot more interesting than just learning about atoms, aluminum and chemistry. Good attractions need good stories and good stories need conflict! I know a lot of people want open ended and vague attractions within a land that is strict, and puts its message right in your face. But I'm the opposite of that. I prefer the land to be more general, open to interpretation and imagination while still being cohesive. And I feel like attractions should tell a story with characters, villain, conflict, and resolution. And for that, you need a conflict...and conflict doesn't really fit old tomorrowland.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  4. #19

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    Re: Does Optimistic Futurism still have a place in Tomorrowland?

    What is the vision for the future? When I was a kid, we all thought that by the year 2000, we would all be going around in personal flying cars like the Jetsons. And there would be cities in space, underwater cities, etc. And everything would be clean and perfect. But what is now the vision of the future?

  5. #20

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    Re: Does Optimistic Futurism still have a place in Tomorrowland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Weaver View Post
    But what is now the vision of the future?
    Besides a corporate oligarchy, no middle class and everyone being serfs to the top 2%, and disfiguring pollution everywhere - including your genome?







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  6. #21

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    Re: Does Optimistic Futurism still have a place in Tomorrowland?

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    The age of Disneyland/Tomorrowland preventing a 'benevolent corporate oversight making the future better!' experience is over, I think, pretty definitively. No one would take the 'Miracles from Molecules' type vibe seriously, unless it's an attraction sponsored by say a 'green' car company (Autopia, Test Track variant). Big business, chemical/manufacturing and etc are largely distrusted.
    Yes, times have changed along with perspectives. But IF one of those large companies were willing to significantly sponsor an attraction paying for part of the operating costs--- do you think Disney would always automatically say no? A "boogeyman" can be found if that is what a person is looking for. Some might argue that McDonalds is one of those evil corporate boogeymen too--- with their unhealthy chemically flavored foods and sugary products derived from unsustainable farming practices. That is not my opinion, they are just a business--- I like a Big Mac now and then... but so is Monsanto--- just a business I mean.

    Call me crazy, but I still find the motto of better living through chemistry to be relevant to any showcase of the future. Otherwise just scrap tomorrowland; pile up some dirt and rocks; lay some sticks around on the ground for people to amuse themselves with, and just call it "cavemanland".

  7. #22

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    Re: Does Optimistic Futurism still have a place in Tomorrowland?

    I agree with that others have said... if you watch fictional tv shows or movies you probably won't see a very optimistic view of the future, but that really is nothing new. So many of these dystopian future movies and tv shows are either adapted from or inspired by pieces of fiction written decades or even a century or more ago. So this is nothing new and dramatic stories always need something bad in order to move the plot forward. But that is even more reason why we need Tomorrowland to reclaim the meaning of its name and the purpose of its existence in the first place - to give the world a positive outlook on the future of the world and humanity.

    And there is absolutely so many things to be positive about the future. The future is going to be amazing! (As long as we don't falter) While climate change will likely cause major storms and droughts... if we prepare now and use technology to our advantage, we can limit the amount of death and destruction it actually causes. And beyond that... there are so many things that will make the future amazing!

    -Just right now, today, we have a handful of private companies who are actually doing things like going into space on their own and doing it exponentially cheaper than anyone previous has. Within the next 5 years, private flights taking people up to space will be common place. Within the next 10-15 years, Space X or one of the other handful of companies trying to go to Mars will actually land the first humans on Mars. Quickly after that there will be permanent colonies there, and on the moon. NASA right now, today, has a whole team working on creating Warp Drive. Yes, real Warp Drive like in Star Trek. According to the laws of physics it is theoretically possible and it is quite possible that in the next 10-15 years we will have a world-changing breakthrough and develop real working warp drive engines. And once we do have people regularly visiting and some living permanently on the Moon and Mars, both governments and private industry will have huge technological and economic incentives to develop faster space travel like warp drive and eventually, much sooner than most people think, it will be real.
    -The world of robotics is developing ever faster and it's probably that within our lifetimes people will be able to purchase home robots to help around the house, heck.. Japan already has the first generation of these robots working in their hospitals and elderly homes.
    -Biologically, we are cracking more and more of the human genetic code, we are figuring out what codes do what and have already successfully cured babies born with a genetic disease by altering their own dna and injecting the fixed strands back into them. We are having more and more advanced mechanical limbs that are already starting to be integrated with human muscles and human nerves. Soon we will live in a future where someone who loses their arm can get a replacement that works just as well or arguably better than their real hand and will also be able to be powered by their own body and controlled with their mind through the remaining nerves in their arm. We have people already today who have successfully given their dna to a lab and had a failing organ of theirs grown in the lab with their own dna and then surgically replaced, swapping out the old one. Soon we will live in a world where you will be able to be 70 years old and undergo a series of surgeries that replace your worn out organs with genetically identical copies, made in a lab, that are at the health level of your perfectly fit 18 year old self - increasing most people's lifespans by decades, well into their mid 100's. Leading scientists and futurist look at this technology and say with absolute confidence that, depending on how long we live and how fast the technology develops... that the middle aged generation alive today might, their children's generation probably, and their grandchildren's generation almost certainly will be able to live in a world where they can live to be about 30 years old and then with genetic therapies and things like organ replacements, could live with their body in that young state for hundreds of years. None of this is science fiction, it is real things happening today that will soon become main stream.
    -Environmentally, solar panels have dropped 70% in price in the last 5 years. Just 5 years ago a set up to completely power your house with solar would have cost you $20-30,000, today you can get the same set up for around $5,000, and in another 5 years anyone will be able to go to Home Depot and buy a few packs of roof shingles made out of solar panels for $1,000 or likely less, and be able to power their whole house, including charging their electric car, with what they buy in the store.

    I could go on and on, but the point is that there is sooooo much to be excited and positive about for the future. I have only even touched on a few subjects here and within those subjects only mentioned a few of the many exciting things quickly happening.

    That's what Tomorrowland needs to be and what it should be. It should be a place where Disney looks at the latest, cutting edge technology, asks the leaders in those fields where they see the world in 50 years and then use the Disney magic to create that world, with some extra Disney inspiration to push it slightly further, and showcase it to the world in amazing and fun exhibits, attractions, and interactive shows. I've said in other posts, Tomorrowland should be redone as Tomorrowland: 2055. A good symbolic year of Disneyland's 100th anniversary and a good 40 years into the future where Disney can show us a world where all the things I mentioned above and so much more and real and common place. Then young kids who come there, who have not seen and would not otherwise see the things depiction in Tomorrowland will be inspired to be a part of it. To go to school and educate themselves and use their own imagination and creativity to make what they saw in Tomorrowland a reality and to bring about its existence faster than it would have come otherwise. That's what Tomorrowland was when it first opened and what it needs to be again today for a new generation.

    People can get cool sci-fi experiences at the movies or on tv or in books and comics or playing video games. We don't need a whole land that forgets what it was originally and succumbs to the lowest common denominator of fictional fantasy fun. Our world is full of things like that already. What we need is something that will show us the real world, as it can and should be, and inspire children all around the world to be a part of making it real.
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  8. #23

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    Re: Does Optimistic Futurism still have a place in Tomorrowland?

    ^ This. Outstanding post!!

    And for anyone who wants sci fi-style attractions, the current research in theoretical physics is wilder than anything in Star Wars!
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  9. #24

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    Re: Does Optimistic Futurism still have a place in Tomorrowland?

    James Dusenberry wins the post award. Exactly to the point - technology by itself isn't the problem. A person will decide to use it for personal benefit to the exclusion of society or for the benefit of society even if there is no personal gain. Reality is often somewhere in between those two extremes, but the problem is still what humans decide to do.

    We can decide to develop and use new technology for good, evil, or somewhere in between. We can promote and encourage the good, live with the in between, but we will never NOT have a dystopian view of the future as long as technology is used for evil, or is used for good but never deal with the negative side effects.

    For example - we nearly have the resources to feed the hungry world. Monsanto is attempting to address that problem by genetically modifying crops for yield and nutritional value. Unfortunately they lease GM corn to farmers, and when the pollen from that corn gets blown by the wind to several farms downwind, pollinating other farmers corn - and then sue those farmers out of existence for using their property without permission, they have become evil. This human behavior is fodder for dystopian views of the future. Change the behavior of people - change the future.

    I'm just sayin'...







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  10. #25

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    Re: Does Optimistic Futurism still have a place in Tomorrowland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sambo View Post
    For example - we nearly have the resources to feed the hungry world. Monsanto is attempting to address that problem by genetically modifying crops for yield and nutritional value. Unfortunately they lease GM corn to farmers, and when the pollen from that corn gets blown by the wind to several farms downwind, pollinating other farmers corn - and then sue those farmers out of existence for using their property without permission, they have become evil.

    I would submit that the innovations in science and technology we enjoy have always come at a cost, but that does not outweigh the need to move forward. Does a person who is starving do death in central Africa really share our concern about genetically engineered corn, and the business practices of Monsanto or any other company? Don't they just want the food?

  11. #26

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    Re: Does Optimistic Futurism still have a place in Tomorrowland?

    Quote Originally Posted by USS Seawolf View Post
    I would submit that the innovations in science and technology we enjoy have always come at a cost, but that does not outweigh the need to move forward. Does a person who is starving do death in central Africa really share our concern about genetically engineered corn, and the business practices of Monsanto or any other company? Don't they just want the food?
    Interesting philosophy. As long as there is one good outcome, you can burn, rape, and pillage all you want. It is OK to destroy a life as long as you save one...







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  12. #27

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    Re: Does Optimistic Futurism still have a place in Tomorrowland?

    I think the future is so positive. Definitely there will be an indication of life in the universe other than here. A signal from elsewhere can reach us. Planets have been discovered. Wormholes are possible.
    It's just fun to have movies fill in the blanks about our future. That's about all the movies can do.
    Maybe Disney ought to hire Michio Kaku as a consultant. He'll breath fire into Tomorrowland.

  13. #28

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    Re: Does Optimistic Futurism still have a place in Tomorrowland?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesDusenberry View Post
    That's what Tomorrowland needs to be and what it should be. It should be a place where Disney looks at the latest, cutting edge technology, asks the leaders in those fields where they see the world in 50 years and then use the Disney magic to create that world, with some extra Disney inspiration to push it slightly further, and showcase it to the world in amazing and fun exhibits, attractions, and interactive shows. I've said in other posts, Tomorrowland should be redone as Tomorrowland: 2055. A good symbolic year of Disneyland's 100th anniversary and a good 40 years into the future where Disney can show us a world where all the things I mentioned above and so much more and real and common place. Then young kids who come there, who have not seen and would not otherwise see the things depiction in Tomorrowland will be inspired to be a part of it. To go to school and educate themselves and use their own imagination and creativity to make what they saw in Tomorrowland a reality and to bring about its existence faster than it would have come otherwise. That's what Tomorrowland was when it first opened and what it needs to be again today for a new generation.
    Certainly Walt's concept for tomorrowland followed the philosophy you described here.
    Sounds a lot like the motivation from The Toynbee Convector; "civilization must have a challenge to respond to in order to flourish". Interesting that Walt Disney and Ray Bradbury were fans of each other's work.
    Last edited by rokketride; 07-13-2013 at 10:04 PM.

  14. #29

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    Re: Does Optimistic Futurism still have a place in Tomorrowland?

    Disney could spend the time and money to really re-work Tomorrowland, but to give it the redo it deserves and should have would probably require the demolishing of several structures and the construction of new buildings and attractions. They could go thru and really make it something futuristic and impressive, but I doubt that they will. I think they are quite content to keep repainting the current buildings that have been there since the '50s and '60s. I would be OK with them going thru and doing a massive repainting and retheme to make the land cohesive, even if it is a new sci-fi theme rather than one of optimistic futurism. They did a good job theming Tomorrowland at Hong Kong Disneyland, making the land themed exclusively to sci-fi. But all the pieces match and make for a nicely executed, matching theme.

  15. #30

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    Re: Does Optimistic Futurism still have a place in Tomorrowland?

    It would be inspiring to see Tomorrowland become completely solar-powered. Plenty of sunshine falls on Anaheim, and if you look at an aerial photo of the park, you see plenty of roof space on Tomorrowland where solar panels could sit. It should become a showcase of technologies that will Tomorrow better for everyone. This would be in keeping with Walt's original vision for the land; though the actual technologies that make Tomorrow better are different ones now than the technologies Walt knew about.

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