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  1. #31

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    Re: An Epidemic of Movie-Based Rides...

    Agreement here. There is no long-term plan. Only short-term, "make as much money as possible in the shortest amount of time possible" thinking. At least the quality put into Cars Land and Buena Vista Street (not movie-based) will hopefully show them that quality is still an essential ingredient needed for success.

    The sad part (or hopeful part, depending on your perspective) is it would only take the decision of one high-enough ranking exec to make the decree that not all attractions will be based on movies.

  2. #32

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    Re: An Epidemic of Movie-Based Rides...

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    Sorry Anakin, but the link does not work - even on my IPhone5 (at least for me).
    That name, no longer has any meaning to me. And I'm sorry if it doesn't work.


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  3. #33

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    Re: An Epidemic of Movie-Based Rides...

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesDusenberry View Post
    This way of thinking about the parks and attractions is EXACTLY the root of the problem. These decisions are being made by executives who are only looking at demographic trends, quarterly stock reports, and guest statistics they get from all those surveys we see people doing as you exit the park. They are focused on the bottom line and on finding more and more ways to keep promoting and selling their already existing products in order to make more money. I have heard from many Disney animators and Imagineers who complain constantly that anything they do always has the bottom line attached to it and anything they want to do has to be backed up by some kind of statistical data that shows projected revenue and growth from said attraction for X and Y reasons. If they can't show those things then their project has no chance of making it beyond the blue sky stage.

    Disney has been shoving these movie-based rides into Disneyland and moreso in DCA in a feeble attempt to improve a failed park. And part of the reason is because they did build a failed park to begin with and they were just concerned with getting the most people there to make the most money at the cheapest possible cost. I mean... do people here forget the HUGE drama between Roy Disney and the board? When they voted him out and he started SaveDisney.com and had his huge public battle for the heart and soul of Disney between him and Eisner. And then Eisener won, SaveDisney went away, and now sadly Roy has died and his message seems to have died along with him; at least in the company board room.

    And again, any and all argument that people 'want' movie-based rides or that they are more popular is total bunk. First off, when did anyone ever see or hear of any kind of petition to build Bug's Land or Cars Land? When was there ever a poll taken or public forum conducted by the company asking fans what they wanted next? There never was and never has been anything like that.. Disney doesn't build things based on what the fans are saying they want to see, they build what they want to see and what they think will be good. The difference was that previously the decisions on what was good were made based on the quality of the story and of the ride experience and of the construction of the attraction. Now those decisions are based just on what is good for the bottom line and stock shareholders. And again... Disney is absolutely building new, innovative, original attractions which are immensely popular ... they just for some reason aren't building them at Disneyland. THAT is the problem.
    You keep saying that everything is bunk...when that couldn't be farther from the truth. They built a franchise land...they got a surge of visitors. What else could it be? Do you think the red car trolley brought all those new guests? Nope, CL did.

    And we know people want movie based rides and lands because they have generated some of the biggest hype since disneyland opened in 55. WWoHP and CL have made a HUGE splash in the theme park industry and are hugely popular with guests. To say that is "bunk" is ridiculous. The proof is in the numbers!!!

    Lastly, you speak of the bottom line...everything has to account for cost and profit....EVERYTHING. The point I was trying to make is that these things are a hit with guests. The crowds love them and the fact that they have to market these attractions so little is a testament to how much people want these new offerings. The writing is on the wall. You may or may not agree with it, but this is the future and the public is loving it and throwing down lots of cash to get it.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  4. #34

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    Re: An Epidemic of Movie-Based Rides...

    the solution to the problem would be to show Disney that you don't like this trend of movie-based attractions. how do you do this? you don't go to the Disneyland resort. however, I'm certain that the majority of people are unwilling to participate in that type of thing voluntarily.
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  5. #35

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    Re: An Epidemic of Movie-Based Rides...

    I am sort of agreeing with Pinrar here. While I know there needs to be balance between originality and franchise based rides, there is without a doubt that a (Well executed) franchise driven ride, like Star Tours, Indiana Jones, Tower of Terror, and Radiator Springs Racers have, are and will bring in guests for years to come. It doesn't matter on whether a ride is franchise driven or not, however, but its execution. Rides like Splash Mountain, while still being built around Uncle Remus' stories of Brer Rabbit in Song of the South, still provided something new and succeeded, while a ride like Mike and Sulley to the Rescue or Ariel's Undersea Adventure where it is basically a rehash of the movie, flop and I wouldn't mind too much if they were to kick the can.



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  6. #36

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    Re: An Epidemic of Movie-Based Rides...

    They just seem obsessed with Pixar based rides right now which is my major problem. Youre right, original rides are always better, yet guys in suits tend to go for whatever has biggest preset install base.

  7. #37

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    Re: An Epidemic of Movie-Based Rides...

    I have to admit I skipped half your post, but I got the gist (jist). I agree

    Well, if you think of it, the Matterhorn was based on a film. But everything else was kind of a mini worlds fair. I really do wish they would do less movie stuff and just have a cool ride.

  8. #38

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    Re: An Epidemic of Movie-Based Rides...

    Well, I'd first say that a good ride is a good ride, it doesn't matter if it is based off of a movie or is original. The Indiana Jones ride is every bit as good as Space Mountain even though one is original and one is not.

    Having said that, there is a concern that a ride based off of a movie will not have the same longevity as the popularity of the movie fades. I think that the problem has to do with the failure of the most recent original concepts at Disneyland that makes the board a little gun-shy about building something completely original. If you remember the 90's, Splash Mountain and Indiana Jones were both built in the first half of the decade, both were based off of movies, and both are still wildly popular today. Later on, we had Light Magic, the new Tomorrowland, and DCA with original rides like Superstar Limo and Golden Dreams. All of those were complete failures and none of them exist today, while Indy and Splash Mountain are still as popular as ever. As avid Disney fans, you and I know that the problem was the quality of the attraction, not whether it was based off of a movie or not. However, the board of directors do not work for Disney, and almost everyone in any board of directors in any company sit on five or six boards at a time. Someone on the board of directors for Disney may also sit on the board for companies like Google, Verizon, Bank of America, United Airlines, etc. They aren't necessarily even fans of Disney and are not going to necessarily know that something like Rocket Rods was simply a bad ride and it wouldn't have mattered whether it was based on a movie or not, where as Indy is an awesome ride and would be just as successful even if it wasn't based on Indiana Jones. The only thing they see in their spreadsheets is that movie-based rides bring in buckets and buckets of money, and non-movie based rides do not. So when they are presented with new rides to fund, they fund the ones based on movies and do not fund the ones that are not based on movies.

    The real problem is that the people in charge are not necessarily fans / consumers of their product, and that is an epidemic in most companies today. However, with the way American businesses are set up (partly due to government laws and regulations) I just don't see that changing anytime soon.

    MiceAge articles talk a lot about how the Disney parks in Japan are superior to the ones here because of the Oriental Land Co. and their willingness to spend tons of money, but I think that the willingness to spend that money comes from Japanese businesses having a better organizational structure then American businesses. Japanese businesses tend to be better at thinking long-term, and seem to understand better that having people in charge who consume the product that they sell leads to better and smarter business decisions. Don't get me wrong, they have their problems too (such as having women in upper management). Unfortunately I do not see American businesses changing their practices any time soon, so I think that you may end up having to go to Tokyo or Shanghai if you really want to ride something completely original.
    Last edited by Big D; 07-18-2013 at 10:41 AM.
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  9. #39

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    Re: An Epidemic of Movie-Based Rides...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    You keep saying that everything is bunk...when that couldn't be farther from the truth. They built a franchise land...they got a surge of visitors. What else could it be? Do you think the red car trolley brought all those new guests? Nope, CL did.

    And we know people want movie based rides and lands because they have generated some of the biggest hype since disneyland opened in 55. WWoHP and CL have made a HUGE splash in the theme park industry and are hugely popular with guests. To say that is "bunk" is ridiculous. The proof is in the numbers!!!

    Lastly, you speak of the bottom line...everything has to account for cost and profit....EVERYTHING. The point I was trying to make is that these things are a hit with guests. The crowds love them and the fact that they have to market these attractions so little is a testament to how much people want these new offerings. The writing is on the wall. You may or may not agree with it, but this is the future and the public is loving it and throwing down lots of cash to get it.
    The franchise is not what brought massive crowds to Carsland, it was the word of mouth that Disney had created this extravagant 600 million dollar land that has an amazing new attraction with a massive rock formation that hasn't ever been seen before. People are starved for new attractions at the resort since they seem to only build one every 5-10 years, they will flock to almost anything new that has an E-ticket stamped on it. Had they built something original and grand on the same scale, I would bet my last bottom dollar that it would be just as popular if not more so. Bugsland and Monsters Inc alone debunks your myth that franchises are what draw people.

    You think guests came to see World of Color because of franchises? I bet you most people didn't even know or care that there were Disney characters included in the show. They simply came to see it because they heard how massive and amazing the effects were in this show and it had never been attempted before.

    Having everything based on a movie without balance will only serve to age the park severely in a short period of time, Universal is a prime example.
    Last edited by Seawolf; 07-18-2013 at 11:28 AM.

  10. #40

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    Re: An Epidemic of Movie-Based Rides...

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    The franchise is not what brought massive crowds to Carsland, it was the word of mouth that Disney had created this extravagant 600 million dollar land that has an amazing new attraction with a massive rock formation that hasn't ever been seen before. People are starved for new attractions at the resort since they seem to only build one every 5-10 years, they will flock to almost anything new that has an E-ticket stamped on it. Had they built something original and grand on the same scale, I would bet my last bottom dollar that it would be just as popular if not more so. Bugsland and Monsters Inc alone debunks your myth that franchises are what draw people.

    You think guests came to see World of Color because of franchises? I bet you most people didn't even know or care that there were Disney characters included in the show. They simply came to see it because they heard how massive and amazing the effects were in this show and it had never been attempted before.

    Having everything based on a movie without balance will only serve to age the park severely in a short period of time, Universal is a prime example.
    I disagree. I think the right franchise will outperform an original concept if the two are of equally high quality. The fact is that a lot of people love these franchises before the attractions even came out. Millions of families absolutely loved Cars and Harry Potter long before their respective lands were built. When you build something like this, you get the benefit of attracting fans as well as people who would have come anyways. Do you really think that a generic Car Land or Wizard Town would outperform CL and WWoHP? The scale and quality of these things may have generated the hype among people like us, but the characters and the chance to live out a beloved story is what generated it among the large majority.

    And when the attraction is as good as Splash, Indy, RSR, ST, and Forbidden journey, you don't have to worry about them becoming irrelevant. They simply won't.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  11. #41

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    Re: An Epidemic of Movie-Based Rides...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    I disagree. I think the right franchise will outperform an original concept if the two are of equally high quality. The fact is that a lot of people love these franchises before the attractions even came out. Millions of families absolutely loved Cars and Harry Potter long before their respective lands were built. When you build something like this, you get the benefit of attracting fans as well as people who would have come anyways. Do you really think that a generic Car Land or Wizard Town would outperform CL and WWoHP? The scale and quality of these things may have generated the hype among people like us, but the characters and the chance to live out a beloved story is what generated it among the large majority.

    And when the attraction is as good as Splash, Indy, RSR, ST, and Forbidden journey, you don't have to worry about them becoming irrelevant. They simply won't.
    Addressing emphasized part:

    WWOHP likely would be just as entertaining without the Harry Potter backstory. The basics - magical town full of magical stuff and magical adventures - is about as basic fantasy as you can get. The Forbidden Journey would need a complete rebuild, but divested of the connection WWOHP is (from SEVERAL reports from Potterhaters) entirely entertaining on it's own and could likely survive with minimal retooling if the franchise goes stale.

    Carsland... I'm not so sure about. You'd need to figure out some way to give context to "why talking living cars".
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  12. #42

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    Re: An Epidemic of Movie-Based Rides...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    I disagree. I think the right franchise will outperform an original concept if the two are of equally high quality. The fact is that a lot of people love these franchises before the attractions even came out. Millions of families absolutely loved Cars and Harry Potter long before their respective lands were built. When you build something like this, you get the benefit of attracting fans as well as people who would have come anyways. Do you really think that a generic Car Land or Wizard Town would outperform CL and WWoHP? The scale and quality of these things may have generated the hype among people like us, but the characters and the chance to live out a beloved story is what generated it among the large majority.

    And when the attraction is as good as Splash, Indy, RSR, ST, and Forbidden journey, you don't have to worry about them becoming irrelevant. They simply won't.
    You don't have to look any further than Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Jungle Cruise, Matterhorn, Big Thunder, and Space Mountain. The most popular attractions that are over 20 years old are original. They simply have more relevancy in the long-run. I would love for you to point out any attractions in Universal or Disney that have anywhere near this kind of longevity.

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    Re: An Epidemic of Movie-Based Rides...

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    Addressing emphasized part:

    WWOHP likely would be just as entertaining without the Harry Potter backstory. The basics - magical town full of magical stuff and magical adventures - is about as basic fantasy as you can get. The Forbidden Journey would need a complete rebuild, but divested of the connection WWOHP is (from SEVERAL reports from Potterhaters) entirely entertaining on it's own and could likely survive with minimal retooling if the franchise goes stale.

    Carsland... I'm not so sure about. You'd need to figure out some way to give context to "why talking living cars".
    They would most like be just as entertaining, but do you think they would generate the same buzz? The same guest satisfaction? Would it draw fans from all over the world? At least from what I can see, when you build a loved franchise attraction or land to the absolute best it can be with no expense spared you get unheard of success. It may not be entirely or even majority due to the characters...but they do seem to resonate with people in ways that are quite amazing. 100% satisfaction...a saved park...I'm just not sure an original upgrade could have done that. At the very least, as quickly as CL did it.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  14. #44

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    Re: An Epidemic of Movie-Based Rides...

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    You don't have to look any further than Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Jungle Cruise, Matterhorn, Big Thunder, and Space Mountain. The most popular attractions that are over 20 years old are original. They simply have more relevancy in the long-run. I would love for you to point out any attractions in Universal or Disney that have anywhere near this kind of longevity.
    Well from reading the FL dark ride thread, those have become pretty untouchable to many people here. Splash hasn't become irrelevant and is one of the most popular rides in the parks. I'd say more so than a few on your list. And I would bet money that Indy never has a problem with longevity. And if it does, it surely wont be because of the tie in.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  15. #45

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    Re: An Epidemic of Movie-Based Rides...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    They would most like be just as entertaining, but do you think they would generate the same buzz? The same guest satisfaction? Would it draw fans from all over the world? At least from what I can see, when you build a loved franchise attraction or land to the absolute best it can be with no expense spared you get unheard of success. It may not be entirely or even majority due to the characters...but they do seem to resonate with people in ways that are quite amazing. 100% satisfaction...a saved park...I'm just not sure an original upgrade could have done that. At the very least, as quickly as CL did it.
    Yes - at least in WWOHP's case. The quality of the "land", the general level of detail put in the rides, yes I do believe they would have generated as much buzz, if only for the "Holy carp, Uni's seriously biting at Disney's heels if not passing them by" talk to begin with.

    A good test of this will be California's WWOHP. There's not going to be much reason to go again if it's only about the franchise, considering that the franchise is going to be several years out from anything new AND the hardcore will likely have already been to FL if it was a true priority. If WWOHP West kills like it did in FL, then I'd say it's more due to the quality of the land and the design level than it is the franchise.

    Again, not sure about Carsland as they tied that extremely closely to a franchise that doesn't translate well out of context. Additionally, the problems with East Coast Disney parks of late almost guarantee any Carsland addition will be cut rate and not a fair comparison.
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