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  1. #46

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    Re: Disney Blog hints at D23 Expo "Sneak peaks" for Star Wars and Avatar attractions!

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    People do still observe that the theme of Cars Land (and Little Mermaid, for that matter) aren't natural fits for DCA while talking separately about the merits of each. It's not mutually exclusive, so the claim people will just accept Avatar entirely once added to AK regardless of what it finally is, if on a decent level of detail quality, seems like a reach to me. Radiator Springs turned out nicely in scale and detail - the reasons for adding it still remain that it was a cash cow for PIXAR/Disney, and not because it was automatically something that was themed to California (car culture and roadside attractions in general can fit well enough, but Radiator Springs in the film was in Arizona, full stop.) People do still talk about that when discussing the addition, that didn't just vanish because it opened.
    Well I haven't heard much fussing from anyone since it opened. There was definitely a huge outcry against it initially though.

    Also the Avatar attractions are being considered for Disneyland right now as well.

  2. #47

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    Re: Disney Blog hints at D23 Expo "Sneak peaks" for Star Wars and Avatar attractions!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostbuster626 View Post
    Well I haven't heard much fussing from anyone since it opened. There was definitely a huge outcry against it initially though.

    Also the Avatar attractions are being considered for Disneyland right now as well.
    Thankfully, there are many checkpoints between "considered" and "at the park".

    They COULD do a wonderful, immersive, amazing theme ride based on Avatar - an aging, not particularly engaging special effects fest that wins people over despite the source material. And they DID do that at USH with Waterworld.

    Think how much better the attraction could be if they didn't have to overcome the baggage, though? If they could start from scratch with something relevant and entertaining on grounds besides "more special effects than Cameron's last adequate-but-awesome-effects effort"?
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  3. #48

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    Re: Disney Blog hints at D23 Expo "Sneak peaks" for Star Wars and Avatar attractions!

    So before Disney bought Pixar and Lucasfilm your telling me you were really angry that there were pixar, Muppets and star wars and indiana jones rides? Give me a break. So if Cameron sells the rights to Avatar to Disney eventually like Lucas did with Star Wars that makes it Kosher in your book? That is seriously the goofiest reason for not wanting something I ever heard.

    Cars was a Pixar movie. Everybody here complained that it was coming to DCA saying it made no sense with the California theme, how it was the lowest performing Pixar movie and there was no interest in it, etc. I would know I was right here when it was happening. Now you don't hear a lick of that complaining and you won't once they show Avatarland.
    LOL you do have a point about CL! I do think most people were excited but there was a lot of vocal opposition to it too and that it would become dated, tied too much to a movie thats not that liked, not really California, etc.

    But it turned out to be WELL done and all those issues fell away. Im sure some people still feel that way of course but guessing they are in a shrinking minority. Sort of like 'issue' of having wires in BVS for the RCT. People were predicting there were going to be many complaints that they were too ugly, cant get any good pics, etc. Opening day came and not a peep lol. In fact I think people even forget about the wires completely. They have blended in to the environment. They are part of BVS and HL now, it would be odd not to have them.

    But thats two things that people dont seem to take account oddly: Execution and famaliarity. Those are really two things that will ultimately make or break an attraction. If people know it and its GOOD its usually going to be hit. The actual theme and premise is really something we just argue about on boards like this. Im not really looking forward to Avatar but if its done right its going to be a huge, huge hit. Its not even an argument. The name is just to get them in the door. What will keep them is how its pulled off. Thats how its been done forever. And I guarantee you the same people who is saying they dont want it to come will probably be some of the same people saying they cant imagine DAK without it a decade from now. It will just depend on how good it is but I notice once something becomes a fixture in these parks its hard for people to let go after they get use to something.

    I cant wait to see the day 20 years from now when rumors of CL may be going away and people go nooooo. It will almost be textbook lol.

  4. #49

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    Re: Disney Blog hints at D23 Expo "Sneak peaks" for Star Wars and Avatar attractions!

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldDisney View Post
    I cant wait to see the day 20 years from now when rumors of CL may be going away and people go nooooo. It will almost be textbook lol.
    I'm actually really hoping it makes it that far if only to see how they explain relevance. I don't see there being an operative CL franchise by that point - they're stuck cycling genre films at the moment, and barring a new and definitely different take they're going to wind up with a land-sized Swiss Family Robinson tree house.
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  5. #50

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    Re: Disney Blog hints at D23 Expo "Sneak peaks" for Star Wars and Avatar attractions!

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    People do still observe that the theme of Cars Land (and Little Mermaid, for that matter) aren't natural fits for DCA while talking separately about the merits of each. It's not mutually exclusive, so the claim people will just accept Avatar entirely once added to AK regardless of what it finally is, if on a decent level of detail quality, seems like a reach to me. Radiator Springs turned out nicely in scale and detail - the reasons for adding it still remain that it was a cash cow for PIXAR/Disney, and not because it was automatically something that was themed to California (car culture and roadside attractions in general can fit well enough, but Radiator Springs in the film was in Arizona, full stop.) People do still talk about that when discussing the addition, that didn't just vanish because it opened.
    Sure people may 'talk' about it, but it doesnt stop them from going! And they are still going in droves. But this is really the issue I think. There is a difference between fans like us that is more anal about this stuff and how well what fits where and the masses that just sees a really well done area with great attractions and doesnt think beyound that. I know Im not saying anything people dont know, my point is end of the day as been proven COUNTLESS times now 9 times out of 10, the stuff about how well it fits a theme or if its 'third property' or not falls away fast once people just deem the attraction/land good. RSR looks to be the parks biggest hit ride since Indy, which isnt anymore Disney either. Its now a 150 min line wait as I type this and its now a year old, but still can get 2-3 hour lines on average. This proves people want good attractions first and foremost. If there are people racing around that track caring if its suppose to California or Arizona havent stopped them from riding it over and over again.

    But the best example of how much people dont care about specific theming when its something they like is STAR WARS! It still amazes me to this day just reading this one thread how people want more of it to come and have no problem ripping out any areas to get it. Star Wars fits Tomorrowland about as well CL fits DCA. Its an awkward fit at best with some elements to match the theme, but if you base it on the original intent of the land it doesnt belong there, not even close. But Star Tours been there forever now and it was a hit with 1.0 and now 2.0. But TL is (or was) about science fact, a look about where OUR future was going and I doubt there are going to be any Wookies or Ewoks around.

    And yes its as third party as you can get. Yeah its Disney owns it now, but that doesnt really matter. They didnt create the characters and Darth Vader fits in to the positive family environment about as well as Wolverine does. This guy started his 'career' killing kids in the last movie, now hes hosting them 5 times a day at the TL Terrance.

    And yet people want TL basically transformed to SW land now. Its almost amazing and these are DISNEY fans. No one even cites this anymore. If people talk about how SW has little to no place in TL, I rarely hear it these days and it hasnt been brought up once here. Because the franchise is too beloved and people have grown up with SW in the parks now. Its too famaliar. And thats going to happen with ANYTHING DIsney puts in there in time. The average person is just going to be excited SW, Marvel, Avatar, etc will come because they take their kids to these movies and buy the toys. Now they will have entire theme park rides and lands around these things. This is ONLY a positive for the average theme park fan. I know people may not like these things and its been discussed the reasons but its not going to stop a single person here from going if they turn out hit attractions.

    In fact Im trying to think of ONE, just ONE third property that isnt a huge hit now?? People are begging to keep the Muppets there (although it at least feels more Disney in nature), TZTOT is a hit in every park its in and its not going anywhere. Indy and as mentioned SW is almost blasphemy to take them out. Of course Pixar has had huge hits with TSM, Buzz, CL, Monsters Inc (mostly Tokyo but obviously liked well enough in DCA), etc.

    Again Im not saying people have to LIKE these things, my point is end of the day most people DO like them. Disney knows its audience and what they want. Its why these parks are still most attended in the world and people talk about them daily today. Believe me, people may be moaning about Avatar now but if Disney hits out of the park those moans will fall away fast as they did for CL!
    Last edited by WorldDisney; 07-25-2013 at 03:22 PM.

  6. #51

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    Re: Disney Blog hints at D23 Expo "Sneak peaks" for Star Wars and Avatar attractions!

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    I'm actually really hoping it makes it that far if only to see how they explain relevance. I don't see there being an operative CL franchise by that point - they're stuck cycling genre films at the moment, and barring a new and definitely different take they're going to wind up with a land-sized Swiss Family Robinson tree house.
    Lightning and Mater are like Pixar's Donald and Goofy, I don't think that anyone won't still know who they are in 20 years. In fact, the whole reason that they put them in the parks is to help keep them relevant for generations. Most people get it backwards and think that they just want to use them to increase interest and create short term visitors. The reality is that this strategy of franchise branding in the parks comes from a recognition that the characters that appear in the parks tend to sell better over many, many years.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  7. #52

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    Re: Disney Blog hints at D23 Expo "Sneak peaks" for Star Wars and Avatar attractions!

    I'm not sure I'd equate Lightning and Mater with Donald and Goofy - I'd say those are more the Toy Story stable. I'd equate Lightning and Mater with the Bug's Life characters, possibly the Robin and Marion - characters from a genre film that are going to require careful longterm planning to keep them viable.

    The land's a good start to keep that "world" in motion. However, if they don't handle it better than Cars 2, it's not going to wear well. Handing off the 'next generation' of Planes to the Direct-to-DVD crowd isn't exactly inspiring confidence, TBH.
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  8. #53

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    Re: Disney Blog hints at D23 Expo "Sneak peaks" for Star Wars and Avatar attractions!

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    I'm actually really hoping it makes it that far if only to see how they explain relevance. I don't see there being an operative CL franchise by that point - they're stuck cycling genre films at the moment, and barring a new and definitely different take they're going to wind up with a land-sized Swiss Family Robinson tree house.
    How is it anymore 'relevant' then whats in half of DL today? I doubt anyone under 30 has seen Who Frame Rodger Rabbit but 20 years later Toontown is still very popular and the ride still get 30-45 min waits average. Splash Mountain is based on movie characters but the actual movie is now banned in America. I saw it for the first time on Youtube lol. But I been riding Splash since the year it opened and its still as popular today. I didnt know the Toad ride was based on an actual film until well into my 20s and seeing the film or not has no bearing on how much I love the ride.

    Guys, I dont get this? Why do people constantly bring up the fact that a ride only stays popular as the film its based on when that has NEVER been true? And also why do people not take into account that these rides just stay popular based on their own merits? When was the last time a Twilight Zone movie or show came out? And yet TOT is still very popular because its a great ride. The last Indy movie sucked, as far as I can its had zero bearing on the rides popularity.

    And CL is based on Route 66! Most of those buildings came from the movie but influenced from actual Route 66 places. They actually went to Rt 66 to help design parts of the land that wasnt shown in the movie to make it feel more real. There isnt much of a cartoony feel about the place and feels more in line with Frontierland. Its a blending of real (Rt 66) and fantasy (CARS), so it works on several levels. I think thats great.

    But these rides/lands just becomes classics in their own right. In 20 years no one may care about CARS, but RSR is still going to be a pretty popular ride just like POTC, Indy, SM, Splash, Soarin, TOT, etc. Once people attach their own memories and fondness to the actual attraction, what they were based on is a distant second.

  9. #54

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    Re: Disney Blog hints at D23 Expo "Sneak peaks" for Star Wars and Avatar attractions!

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    I'm actually really hoping it makes it that far if only to see how they explain relevance. I don't see there being an operative CL franchise by that point - they're stuck cycling genre films at the moment, and barring a new and definitely different take they're going to wind up with a land-sized Swiss Family Robinson tree house.
    Like Fantasyland, Indiana Jones and Splash Mountain?

  10. #55

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    Re: Disney Blog hints at D23 Expo "Sneak peaks" for Star Wars and Avatar attractions!

    Quote Originally Posted by biggsworth View Post
    I don't know how anyone can be so down on even "teasers" or previews
    It's about keeping our expectations in check.

    Too many times ... we'll hear a fragment of info here or there ... and jump the gun.

    Just breathing a sigh of caution.
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  11. #56

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    Re: Disney Blog hints at D23 Expo "Sneak peaks" for Star Wars and Avatar attractions!

    Fantasyland is based around a set of fairy tales that have been known on a worldwide scale for decades or in some cases centuries.

    Doc Hollywood is a little more recent vintage.
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  12. #57

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    Re: Disney Blog hints at D23 Expo "Sneak peaks" for Star Wars and Avatar attractions!

    "Only proven franchise brands make good theme park rides" isn't the fans' criteria for new lands and attractions, it's Disney's. Forget the fickle box office, a monster ancillary market is what gets the greenlights -- it's the reason Carsland was built and Lucas was bought.

    Avatar's ancillary is a big, blue goose egg. For all the hype, it generated no merch, no music and no memorable characters.

    Look at Avatarland from the BoD's POV:

    • Disney ownership? Zero.
    • Ancillary potential? Zero.
    • Licensing fee? Large.
    • Development costs? Humongous -- high potential for schedule-and budget-overruns.
    • In-house creative control? Partial at best.
    • Appeal to Orlando's domestic and international tourist demographic? Questionable.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  13. #58

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    Re: Disney Blog hints at D23 Expo "Sneak peaks" for Star Wars and Avatar attractions!

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    I'm actually really hoping it makes it that far if only to see how they explain relevance. I don't see there being an operative CL franchise by that point - they're stuck cycling genre films at the moment, and barring a new and definitely different take they're going to wind up with a land-sized Swiss Family Robinson tree house.
    If DCA still exists in 20 years, by then it will have gotten so far out of California theming that nothing will matter.

  14. #59

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    Re: Disney Blog hints at D23 Expo "Sneak peaks" for Star Wars and Avatar attractions!

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldDisney View Post
    How is it anymore 'relevant' then whats in half of DL today? I doubt anyone under 30 has seen Who Frame Rodger Rabbit but 20 years later Toontown is still very popular and the ride still get 30-45 min waits average. Splash Mountain is based on movie characters but the actual movie is now banned in America. I saw it for the first time on Youtube lol. But I been riding Splash since the year it opened and its still as popular today. I didnt know the Toad ride was based on an actual film until well into my 20s and seeing the film or not has no bearing on how much I love the ride.

    Guys, I dont get this? Why do people constantly bring up the fact that a ride only stays popular as the film its based on when that has NEVER been true? And also why do people not take into account that these rides just stay popular based on their own merits? When was the last time a Twilight Zone movie or show came out? And yet TOT is still very popular because its a great ride. The last Indy movie sucked, as far as I can its had zero bearing on the rides popularity.

    And CL is based on Route 66! Most of those buildings came from the movie but influenced from actual Route 66 places. They actually went to Rt 66 to help design parts of the land that wasnt shown in the movie to make it feel more real. There isnt much of a cartoony feel about the place and feels more in line with Frontierland. Its a blending of real (Rt 66) and fantasy (CARS), so it works on several levels. I think thats great.

    But these rides/lands just becomes classics in their own right. In 20 years no one may care about CARS, but RSR is still going to be a pretty popular ride just like POTC, Indy, SM, Splash, Soarin, TOT, etc. Once people attach their own memories and fondness to the actual attraction, what they were based on is a distant second.
    I agree 100%!!! I've said it many times lately that a good ride is a good ride. The movie tie-in only helps in that it brings guests to the park, but the quality of the ride itself is what brings them back. People don't ride Indy because the last Indiana Jones film was so awesome, they ride it because it's an awesome ride in spite of the fact that the last film was so ridiculously horrible that it borders on being unintentionally funny because they were serious (i.e the nuke-proof refrigerator). Since Disney brings in people no matter what, it does not matter what movie a ride is or is not based on. Universal needs good movies like Harry Potter to get people to come to their parks. Disney does not. So even though I don't particularly want an Avatar Land at WDW, and I sure as h*ll do not want Star Wars or Marvel to take over Tomorrowland, if it's done well and the rides are as good as Indy or RSR, we'll all quickly forget that we didn't like the movies they were based on and praise Disney for how amazing the end product actually is.
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  15. #60

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    Re: Disney Blog hints at D23 Expo "Sneak peaks" for Star Wars and Avatar attractions!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    "Only proven franchise brands make good theme park rides" isn't the fans' criteria for new lands and attractions, it's Disney's. Forget the fickle box office, a monster ancillary market is what gets the greenlights -- it's the reason Carsland was built and Lucas was bought.

    Avatar's ancillary is a big, blue goose egg. For all the hype, it generated no merch, no music and no memorable characters.

    Look at Avatarland from the BoD's POV:

    • Disney ownership? Zero.
    • Ancillary potential? Zero.
    • Licensing fee? Large.
    • Development costs? Humongous -- high potential for schedule-and budget-overruns.
    • In-house creative control? Partial at best.
    • Appeal to Orlando's domestic and international tourist demographic? Questionable.
    So then it would be a breath of fresh air that it's getting built right?

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