Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 98
  1. #61

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    191

    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post
    (I thought that subtracting the frictional force from the parallel force to find the net force would somehow create a disparity between the final accelerations, but looking back, I don't know why I thought that since both the parallel force and the normal force are dependent on the object's mass. Funny how something as simple as Newtonian mechanics can become muddled without careful and precise thought.)
    Newtonian mechanics is definitely not simple, and one would definitely expect that the mass of an object would have an impact on how it accelerates in this situation, so the physics is very unintuitive. That said, Newtonian mechanics is usually not the best tool for the job. I'm not sure what your background is, but you might look up Hamiltonian and Lagrangian Mechanics if you're familiar with calculus. These are extensions of Newtonian mechanics which are, in practice, much easier and more intuitive to deal with. The trade off, of course, is that the math gets harder.

    As to the issue of whether weight matters, I'm still unsure. If it is actually in the ride operations manual, I'm guessing it is due to something other than the typical causes one might imagine. I'm at a loss as to what it could be however, and I wonder if the actual reasoning has been misrepresented at some level.

  2. #62

    • ~
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    524

    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Theophilus Carter View Post
    Newtonian mechanics is definitely not simple, and one would definitely expect that the mass of an object would have an impact on how it accelerates in this situation, so the physics is very unintuitive. That said, Newtonian mechanics is usually not the best tool for the job. I'm not sure what your background is, but you might look up Hamiltonian and Lagrangian Mechanics if you're familiar with calculus. These are extensions of Newtonian mechanics which are, in practice, much easier and more intuitive to deal with. The trade off, of course, is that the math gets harder.
    In a more complicated example it definitely wouldn't be simple (poor wording on my part), but in the case of a very basic inclined plane, wouldn't a relatively straight-forward application Newton's first and second laws of motion sufficiently explain what you were describing? (Not an explanation of varying speeds of different rockets, but the fact that the presence of friction shouldn't create a difference in the final acceleration of two varying masses.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Theophilus Carter View Post
    As to the issue of whether weight matters, I'm still unsure. If it is actually in the ride operations manual, I'm guessing it is due to something other than the typical causes one might imagine. I'm at a loss as to what it could be however, and I wonder if the actual reasoning has been misrepresented at some level.
    Hm. This has been an interesting discussion. I suppose without a more detailed look into the properties of the coaster, it's not possible to say what could possibly cause these variations in speed with any real confidence. Still an interesting problem to ponder on.

  3. #63

    • Tom Chaney R.I. P.
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Just somewhere south of dysfunctional
    Posts
    3,207

    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by captain View Post
    I wanted to get off immediately. But the ride never stopped. At all. It went right through the station without any stop to load or unload, so I had to go through that experience all over again. I love space mountain and it's one of my favorite rides, but what I experienced truly terrified me.
    I'm calling BS on this one. Are you really saying that there were no other cars in front of you when the ride was over.

    Where were the cars in front of you, nothing on the track, no cars in the station. you just zoomed with out even stopping. I don't think so.

    I am just going by on what you said, First you said you did not stop. Then in a later post you said you did stop but only for a second. Please4 get your facts right before posting.
    Last edited by tahoebob54; 08-01-2013 at 10:20 AM.
    THIS SPACE FOR SALE OR LEASE





    PRESIDENT OF THE DISNEYLAND LOOP LOVERS ASSOCIATION

  4. #64

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    71

    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    I said we stopped at the part where they load handicaps. I didn't think that would count as the loading station. By the time we pulled into the station, there was a car in front of us but it left as soon as we entered the station. Look, I perfectly understand why everyone is confused and doubts what I say, but I have no reason to lie.

  5. #65

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    876

    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Im confused. Are there portions of the ride that brake before the ending? I never noticed any, so why would the OP be afraid due to lack of braking? Also, did we ever clear up if weight actually effects a roller coaster's speed? Especially one with no up hill portions?

    I think it was a psychological response to the lack of music which made the ride feel different and maybe faster.

  6. #66

    • Singing Drinker
    • Online

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,899

    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by brian11811 View Post
    Im confused. Are there portions of the ride that brake before the ending? I never noticed any, so why would the OP be afraid due to lack of braking? Also, did we ever clear up if weight actually effects a roller coaster's speed? Especially one with no up hill portions?

    I think it was a psychological response to the lack of music which made the ride feel different and maybe faster.
    Yes - most modern coasters have "block brakes" set up to allow for keeping cars to their safe speeds as well as to prevent collisions by keeping coaster cars separated by braking sections in case of emergency.
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  7. #67

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    71

    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by brian11811 View Post
    I never noticed any, so why would the OP be afraid due to lack of braking?
    I never knew that the ride could go that fast. I've been on it dozens of times, and it has always gone normal speed. I guess that speed mixed with the lack of music caused me to freak out a little because I could hear creaking and other odd sounds that I never heard before.

  8. #68

    •   
    • Circle of Ancients
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    15,028

    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by captain View Post
    I said we stopped at the part where they load handicaps. I didn't think that would count as the loading station. By the time we pulled into the station, there was a car in front of us but it left as soon as we entered the station. Look, I perfectly understand why everyone is confused and doubts what I say, but I have no reason to lie.
    I believe you....it makes perfect sense that they'd want you to go again right away because if there were no cars in front of you at the station than there were probably a whole bunch of cars right behind you
    Waiting for Godot Micechat.com

  9. #69

    •   
    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    310

    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by brian11811 View Post
    Also, did we ever clear up if weight actually effects a roller coaster's speed?
    It does.

  10. #70

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    191

    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post
    In a more complicated example it definitely wouldn't be simple (poor wording on my part), but in the case of a very basic inclined plane, wouldn't a relatively straight-forward application Newton's first and second laws of motion sufficiently explain what you were describing? (Not an explanation of varying speeds of different rockets, but the fact that the presence of friction shouldn't create a difference in the final acceleration of two varying masses.)
    Since, I think, we've moved beyond the scope of the thread, feel free to PM me if you want to continue our discussion.

    The issue is not that Newton's Laws aren't fully capable of explaining all of the problems within their scope, rather, it is that Newton's Laws aren't always the best tool for the job. There are two ways they can fail. Obviously there are very simple problems that are very difficult to solve analytically using Newton's Laws, and so we need to use other tools - really just reformulations of Newton's Laws - to solve the problems. The subtler way they can fail is if they make the problem harder than it needs to be. What I mean by that is if the physics is somewhat unintuitive, it may make more sense to approach it from another direction. Lagrangian mechanics does that - and indeed, most physicists do think about classical mechanics problems using the language of Lagrange, rather than the language of Newton for exactly that reason.

  11. #71

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Sacramento
    Posts
    230

    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    if you would have said something they would have let you off. why didnt you say anything

  12. #72

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    71

    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemo123 View Post
    if you would have said something they would have let you off. why didnt you say anything
    Oh, I definitely tried to get someone's attention. But I think they were focused on unloading the people behind us or something. Even the person who's supposed to be checking the lap bars was off doing something else.

  13. #73

    •   
    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Westminster Ca
    Posts
    370

    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Awww! I wish I had been on it!!

  14. #74

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Paper St
    Posts
    1,343

    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by brian11811 View Post
    Im confused. Are there portions of the ride that brake before the ending? I never noticed any, so why would the OP be afraid due to lack of braking? Also, did we ever clear up if weight actually effects a roller coaster's speed? Especially one with no up hill portions?

    I think it was a psychological response to the lack of music which made the ride feel different and maybe faster.
    If the ride didn't have any brakes throughout its course, only one car would be allowed on the gravity portion at all times--this would kill the capacity.

    The brakes don't necessarily always slow the cars down; the most important aspect of a brake zone are sensors that read where the car is. Let's say there are two brake zones...brake zone 1 and brake zone 2. Two cars are careening down the coaster track; the first one passes brake zone 1 and the sensor picks it up. The second car now must pass by brake zone 1 after or at the same time as the first car passes brake zone 2 so that the sensors know that the first car has made it safely through the course and it's safe for the second car to keep going.

    Had the first car not passed by brake zone 2 by the time the second car passed brake zone 1, the second car would come to a stop. Why? Because for all the ride system knows, the first car is stuck somewhere, doing something that has prevented it from continuing along the course of the ride. Brake zone 1 sees this and stops the second car so that it doesn't crash into the first car, which the ride thinks is stopped somewhere.

    Now obviously a high capacity ride isn't going to be exactly precise, and there will be variations between the distances between ride vehicles (weight distribution, loading processes, human error, etc.) That's why the brake zones tend to slow the car down, if not just a tiny tiny bit, so that they can control the distances between vehicles. Let's say in the previous example that the first car was significantly lighter than the second car, meaning it would go slower...that means that the second car is going to get slowed down quite a bit more at the brake zones, so as to give time for the first car to clear each sensor and give a safe distance between the two.

    In most big roller coasters in regular theme parks, there's only one brake zone (the mid-course brakes) which generally breaks the coaster into two halves (think Viper at SFMM, where the train nearly comes to a stop before embarking on the smaller half of the ride). On these roller coasters, the vehicle simply needs to clear this brake zone before the vehicle behind it clears the lift hill, and after the vehicle ahead of it has made it past the first set of end brakes (if the vehicle before it is taking too long to get to the final brake run, the ride will stop on the mid-course brake, thus causing a delay on the chain lift as well). However, Disney operates its rides at a much higher capacity to accommodate its huge crowds, thus wanting to get as many vehicles on one track at a time as possible (most roller coasters only have a maximum of three vehicles on a track at a time; one on the lift, one in motion, and one sitting in the final brake zone or load area). That's why Screamin has so many brakes--so there are more sensors and more detectors that its safe to run up to five vehicles at a time. Space Mountain is the same way, and there are actually several of these brake zones/sensors so that more vehicles can be run safely.

    I'm guessing that the reason for the OP's experience was simply lack of vehicles on the track, therefore a lack of need to brake the ride at each zone...this would also make zooming through the station without stopping a possibility.

  15. #75

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,890

    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by G24T View Post
    I believe the story simply because I have little faith that the CM's would pick up on such an issue unless/until the trouble indicators started showing up on that monitor in the tower.
    I agree. Given the obvious level of disinterest, distraction and disregard that I saw in many attraction CMs the last time I was at Disneyland, it doesn't surprise me that the OP tried to get their attention and got no response from any of them.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 234567 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [Question] Had an interesting Space Mountain experience. Rocket turned left instead of right.
    By PrototypeX85 in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 04-20-2011, 03:07 PM
  2. Gross Space Mountain Experience
    By bella in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 09-01-2007, 09:34 PM
  3. My Space Mountain Experience (Pics w/ lights on)
    By demento57 in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 12-03-2006, 08:06 PM
  4. My Space Mountain Experience
    By Indiana Joe in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-07-2006, 05:43 AM
  5. My experience at Space Mountain today! (Spoilers and pics!)
    By viewaskewniverse in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-02-2005, 11:52 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •