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  1. #76

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    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    You're talking about two different things here: whether the CM's were paying attention to the safe operation of the ride and whether they were paying attention to the happiness of the guests onboard. G24T suggested that attractions CM's wouldn't even notice if the attraction started behaving in a way it wasn't designed to, which is patently false. Even lowest-caliber CM's generally notice that sort of thing, and if you've got a station with half a dozen CM's in it, you're virtually guaranteed that someone will notice.

    Your reply is about whether they were paying attention to the happiness of the guests onboard. That's something that lower-quality CM's are more likely to do poorly with. Especially at an attraction like Space, where the pressure to keep the station moving is incredibly intense. Do you risk creating a downtime that angers thousands of guests just to help one who is hesitant about riding again? Even a cast member who is friendly, engaged, attentive, and eager to do their job correctly will have a tough time in that sort of situation.

  2. #77

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    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    ^seriously? If efficiency outweighs guest service, then thats a poorly run company

  3. #78

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    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    double post.

  4. #79

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    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    I agree with TylerDurden, but I understand what you're saying, CMinParadise. I just think that if Space Mountain is going a speed that faster than what I'm used to, and if it makes me extremely uncomfortable, I should be able to get a CMs attention to take me off.

  5. #80

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    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Out of curiosity, what did you do to try and get the cm's attention?

  6. #81

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    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    ^seriously? If efficiency outweighs guest service, then thats a poorly run company
    Exactly right. And when that company reduces its world-famous training program to a shadow of its former self, and lowers both the staffing numbers and the quality of its CMs, then it shouldn't be surprised when its customers begin to notice the decline.

    Now, I don't know exactly what happened at the time the OP was riding Space Mountain. But I do know that given the notorious decline in CM training, attitude and staffing numbers that has been going on for years, his story comes as no surprise.
    Last edited by MickeyMaxx; 08-03-2013 at 08:00 AM.
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  7. #82

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    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by redberon View Post
    Out of curiosity, what did you do to try and get the cm's attention?
    I tried to yell, "Hey!" to see if I could get someone's attention, but it would've been too late anyway as the car was leaving the handicap loading area. I was in quite a state of confusion and shock so I didn't know how to react to what was going on at the time when we entered the station. I even tried to get their attention after I got off the second time around, but they just weren't paying attention. They were too focused loading guests in.

  8. #83

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    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Yes, the ride was most likely operating just fine at the time, and I was more than likely just overreacting to what was going on, but it does sorta show how poorly trained CMs are nowadays.

  9. #84

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    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    ^seriously? If efficiency outweighs guest service, then thats a poorly run company
    Yes, but all else being equal, if service to one guest outweighs service to many thousands, that's a problem too.

    Sometimes making one person or group happy is going to make another person or group unhappy, and the situation becomes more complicated than good choices vs. bad choices.

    Some scenarios are still easy: if a guest escapes from their vehicle on an attraction, you stop the attraction, because that guest's significantly endangered safety is the top priority at that moment.

    But some scenarios are profoundly tough. Hypothetically imagine you're working a very popular attraction that runs according to a very strict dispatch interval. Get too far behind by just a little bit, and the entire attraction goes down for a long time, which places riders at greater risk during evacuation procedures, ruins the show when the work lights get turned on, and delays and frustrates everyone who is on the ride or in the line or trying to get into the line. It causes people to miss FastPass windows and dinner reservations. It backs up the line for the rest of the day because of all the people who didn't get to ride during the downtime, pushing FastPass-to-StandBy ratios closer and closer to 1:0, resulting in thousands more frustrated guests for the rest of the operating day.

    Now imagine that circumstances 100% beyond your control have pushed your attraction to the brink of such a downtime. A vehicle comes into the station and you know it needs to be dispatched immediately. If not, the attraction WILL go down, end of story. As the vehicle passes, your attention is drawn to a guest in the exit starting toward the ride path. Maybe they forgot an item, maybe they're confused about where to go, maybe they see someone they know, whatever. But it's motion in the wrong direction, and you know you'll have to Station Stop if the guest approaches the yellow safety line. While you're watching that guest, you hear a voice in one of the vehicles behind you say, "Hey!" But you keep watching the guest in the exit path because you know that is the concern that needs your attention above all else at that moment. Presently, the guest turns back toward the exit, by which time the vehicle is already gone, and a downtime is avoided. You never learn that the voice saying "hey" was a rider who didn't feel like riding again.

    I wasn't there when the OP had their experience and I dont know the specifics of what happened. But the above hypothetical scenario is very much within the realm of possibility. It's the sort of thing that happens every day at attractions across the Resort. Sometimes you have to make a quick decision between a bunch of options and all of them will make at least one person unhappy.

  10. #85

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    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Ok, point taken, but what if the OP had a bigger issue than simply being "uncomfortable"? What if there was a severe problem, even a medical issue? Who is the CM to judge that one guests problem isn't worth several others? Would making a few more people wait longer in line (and I've waited through a SM re-boot, it takes no more than 15 minutes) be worth one person having a heart attack?

    The point is, back in the good ole days it wasn't about efficiency and thorough output of riders. Some people may have been inconvenienced, yes, but you have to weigh your priorities. A rider attempting to flag down a nonchalant CM should be more important than a group of people in line, of whom you don't know their situation. Heck, do THEM a favor and give em FP's for the inconvenience if you want to. But back in the good ole days, NO guest was EVER ignored no matter what the situation.

  11. #86

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    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by CMinParadise View Post
    ...G24T suggested that attractions CM's wouldn't even notice if the attraction started behaving in a way it wasn't designed to, which is patently false. Even lowest-caliber CM's generally notice that sort of thing, and if you've got a station with half a dozen CM's in it, you're virtually guaranteed that someone will notice.
    Just for the record I said it out of sarcasm based off the reality that Space Mountain is no longer a second tier attraction for CM's like it used to be. It is a high stress high efficiency machine that not everybody can get used to without having worked some other attraction first.
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  12. #87

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    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Ok, point taken, but what if the OP had a bigger issue than simply being "uncomfortable"? What if there was a severe problem, even a medical issue? Who is the CM to judge that one guests problem isn't worth several others? Would making a few more people wait longer in line (and I've waited through a SM re-boot, it takes no more than 15 minutes) be worth one person having a heart attack?

    The point is, back in the good ole days it wasn't about efficiency and thorough output of riders. Some people may have been inconvenienced, yes, but you have to weigh your priorities. A rider attempting to flag down a nonchalant CM should be more important than a group of people in line, of whom you don't know their situation. Heck, do THEM a favor and give em FP's for the inconvenience if you want to. But back in the good ole days, NO guest was EVER ignored no matter what the situation.
    Very well said. A company that justifies its employees not acknowledging a guest's request for help on a ride because "it might slow down things for the guests in line" would seem to have its priorities backwards.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

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  13. #88

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    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemo123 View Post
    Happened to me on matterhorn. not the speed part but it was getting backed up so he asked everyone if we wanted to go again and we said yes so he sent our sleds through again. actually made my day
    Was your sled pulled off on the table? Because that can happen. If the CM had to clear holds 3 and 4 on the track by pulling your loaded sled, you were probably offered another run for that reason.

    If your sled wasn't pulled off on the table and he had no choice but to leave you in the sled at unload and let you go again while he ran back and pulled the sled off on the table, it sounds like holds 2-4 got backed up beyond what they should have been.

    Sleds advance fairly slowly through the station and every second counts when a backup is in the process of occurring. As the brakes drop, each sled moves slowly forward which is why you really had to watch those holds. I remember my trainer telling us to do everything possible to prevent a hold 4 because the next sled through the pond would break you down.

    Usually when you were working unload it was your job to assist the guest in exiting safely and properly, but you also had to be watching your holds too.

    I usually tried to anticipate and if I saw the holds start to back up, it didn't impact the guests exiting at unload....they still stepped out. It was the sled behind them I pulled so as to release space on the track at holds 3 and 4.

    Getting a sled off at the rear table before it gets to that point is the ideal.

    I watched a young lady anticipate in this way a few days ago. The guests at unload were stepping out. She had a hold 3 with the next sled splashing down through the pond and moving into the hold 4 position and it very briefly came to a stop. By this time she already had the sled off on the table, so the hold 4 only rested momentarily. Eventually the holds started to clear out and she put the sled back on line. I'm sure she offered them another ride.

  14. #89

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    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    yea we were pulled off to that little side table where the track moves
    Quote Originally Posted by CASurfer65 View Post
    Was your sled pulled off on the table? Because that can happen. If the CM had to clear holds 3 and 4 on the track by pulling your loaded sled, you were probably offered another run for that reason.

    If your sled wasn't pulled off on the table and he had no choice but to leave you in the sled at unload and let you go again while he ran back and pulled the sled off on the table, it sounds like holds 2-4 got backed up beyond what they should have been.

    Sleds advance fairly slowly through the station and every second counts when a backup is in the process of occurring. As the brakes drop, each sled moves slowly forward which is why you really had to watch those holds. I remember my trainer telling us to do everything possible to prevent a hold 4 because the next sled through the pond would break you down.

    Usually when you were working unload it was your job to assist the guest in exiting safely and properly, but you also had to be watching your holds too.

    I usually tried to anticipate and if I saw the holds start to back up, it didn't impact the guests exiting at unload....they still stepped out. It was the sled behind them I pulled so as to release space on the track at holds 3 and 4.

    Getting a sled off at the rear table before it gets to that point is the ideal.

    I watched a young lady anticipate in this way a few days ago. The guests at unload were stepping out. She had a hold 3 with the next sled splashing down through the pond and moving into the hold 4 position and it very briefly came to a stop. By this time she already had the sled off on the table, so the hold 4 only rested momentarily. Eventually the holds started to clear out and she put the sled back on line. I'm sure she offered them another ride.

  15. #90

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    Re: Terrifying Space Mountain experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Very well said. A company that justifies its employees not acknowledging a guest's request for help on a ride because "it might slow down things for the guests in line" would seem to have its priorities backwards.
    I agree. I understand completely that the CMs need and want to keep things moving and keep the ride online - since downtime affects everyone, and on a ride like Space Mountain, getting stopped in the middle can really bite.

    However...having said that...IMHO if they aren't paying attention to that guest in the rocket who does NOT want to re-ride, and is having some sort of an an issue, they could end up with an even larger problem. What if that guest gets sick on the ride? What if they end up with a panic attack? What if it's something more serious than that? Dealing with a medical issue from a guest who needed out and didn't get out is going to hold up the ride, too.
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