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  1. #61

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    Re: Peoplemover Track Being Worked On!

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Instantaneous velocity isn't the issue, so much, but the accelerations and decelerations, but the tracks were made from concrete & rebar, such as how the monorail track was constructed. The Monorail has a much higher mass than the RR, hence more "vibrations" when stoping and accelerating . . . given a comparison of the two tracks, I'd say that the People Mover track could be in good condition.
    The monorail track was designed to handle the vibrations of the monorail vehicle. The PeopleMover tracks were not designed to handle the Rocket Rods. The tracks are in awful condition and are coming down.

    Not sure how much of the track "fell" off into the lagoon, but you can lose a piece of the superficial cement and not be a stone's throw away from structural failure.
    Why do you think they've been sitting empty for over 10 years? The track absolutely cannot be used in its current state.

  2. #62

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    Re: Peoplemover Track Being Worked On!

    Quote Originally Posted by disneylandfan95 View Post
    The monorail track was designed to handle the vibrations of the monorail vehicle. The PeopleMover tracks were not designed to handle the Rocket Rods. The tracks are in awful condition and are coming down.



    Why do you think they've been sitting empty for over 10 years? The track absolutely cannot be used in its current state.

    Disney often over builds (over designs) stuff. Both for safety, and because they're not a public entity laying down miles and miles of a new transportation system by assigning the contract to the lowest bidder. Concrete and rebar lasts forever if properly maintained, which mostly means that it gets a proper paint job at regular intervals.

    Disney structural engineers looked at the stresses involved with RR, on the track based on how the People Mover track was designed, I don't know the exact specifics, but you seem to be implying that the engineers who did the calculation made a mistake. I haven't heard anything about that. I guess we'll see what happens.

    Regardless, there is a nice Miceage article on why RR went away:

    MiceChat - Accountaneering Disney, Disney History - Welcome to Accountaneering Disney

    There were probably enough problems without structural integrity being one of them.

  3. #63

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    Re: Peoplemover Track Being Worked On!

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Disney structural engineers looked at the stresses involved with RR, on the track based on how the People Mover track was designed, I don't know the exact specifics, but you seem to be implying that the engineers who did the calculation made a mistake. I haven't heard anything about that. I guess we'll see what happens.
    Not made a mistake per say, but certainly overlooked the potential impact of the acceleration and deceleration of the RR vehicles. The RR vehicles were extremely heavy and seriously damaged the aging 60s-era PeopleMover track, as no additional structural support was added to it during the RR installation.

    There were probably enough problems without structural integrity being one of them.
    There were certainly many problems with RR, as stated in the article. The reason that the tracks still sit unused today is due to the structural issues caused by the wear of the RR, as well as the increasingly strict ADA regulations.

    Great conversation, by the way. Let me just end by restating what I've been saying for years: the current tracks will be coming down. There are just too many issues that would cost an astronomical amount of money to fix.

  4. #64

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    Re: Peoplemover Track Being Worked On!

    If Disney did want to use the track again, they could use industrial radiography to determine the structural integrity of the track, (cement-rebar part, not the tubular steel track for the rocket rods).

    Reminds me of what happened when they were building the WDW monorail system, there was an issue with the track and they had to get in a guy who was considered the top of this, then infant, field to see if they could go with the track that was built. It was a big deal, and nobody wanted to do anything that wasn't safe.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 08-02-2013 at 11:24 PM.

  5. #65

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    Re: Peoplemover Track Being Worked On!

    Quote Originally Posted by disneylandfan95 View Post
    Not made a mistake per say, but certainly overlooked the potential impact of the acceleration and deceleration of the RR vehicles. The RR vehicles were extremely heavy and seriously damaged the aging 60s-era PeopleMover track, as no additional structural support was added to it during the RR installation.
    I don't mean to argue the point as I don't have any specific info one way or the other.

    The engineers were keen to slow down RR's cars on the curves, but if they went to fast, the likeliest outcome would be the cars deform the tubular track (not the concrete/rebar structure, we're looking at the weakest point here), and potentially "fly off". The acceleration was on a straight-away, and the concrete rebar was designed to hold up when the People Movers were on the track, (and then some given how Disney designs stuff).

    I don't know the weight of a single People Mover car, versus a single RR, probably the RR weighed more because it also had a motor (this being the biggest add on, a lot of the look of the RR was for show and made out of tubular metal).

    However . . . the track, on a daily basis, carried more weight in guests in People Movers, than in Rocket Rods, as a whole train of People Movers, weighs a lot more than the relatively much more spaced out Rocket Rods. Remember pics of the People Mover with tons of cars and people riding it?

    Concrete w/rebar has strength and some flexibility, I'd expect to see evidence of stress fractures/damage, in the tubular RR track (attached to top of People Mover track), before I see damage to the actual cement-rebar pylons and cement-rebar track sections.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 08-02-2013 at 11:33 PM.

  6. #66

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    Re: Peoplemover Track Being Worked On!

    You aren't letting this go, are you?

    Just wait and see what happens. You can continue to debate the details, but the fact of the matter is that the tracks are coming down.

    Evening.

  7. #67

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    Re: Peoplemover Track Being Worked On!

    I find if quite likely that at least parts of the track are damaged to the point that it cannot be reused. I'm still hopeful that they can find a way to reuse the path through the heart of TL though. If there are plans for a new motorbike style coaster it would be nice to see it still travel the path of the PM through the buildings of TL. If they ever move the rockets back to the top of the old PM platform that's probably going to need to be completely rebuilt too. So hopefully the interior sections are repairable and the double tracks can either be saved or rebuilt in conjunction with relocating the rockets again. My other hope is that if they remove Innoventions that they don't use all of that space for indoor scenes for the coaster or make it two levels and have the coaster scenes upstairs and a new attraction on the first floor. I hope that they find a way for more then one attraction to use all that space. Especially if Autopia goes as well, that would be losing a lot of attractions for just one new one.
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  8. #68

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    Re: Peoplemover Track Being Worked On!

    Quote Originally Posted by disneylandfan95 View Post
    You aren't letting this go, are you?

    Just wait and see what happens. You can continue to debate the details, but the fact of the matter is that the tracks are coming down.

    Evening.
    I don't claim to have any insider info on the People Mover track, per se, all we can conclude from the pictures and history is that the structural integrity of the track is currently unknown by us. The only way to know for sure would be to talk to the structural engineer/s who inspect the track on whatever basis. I haven't heard any official, or even unofficial, comment from anybody at Disney with regards to structural integrity of the People Mover track.

    Here is some track damage:

    http://www.miceshots.com/usr/65/ITP-080312-IMG_0538.jpg

    But in this example, the concrete chipping is confined to a corner of cement, not a structural integrity issue, but a cosmetic & mild safety one (falling concrete chips), and given the location, possibly not caused by RR as concrete tends to chip in corners like this.

  9. #69

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    Re: Peoplemover Track Being Worked On!

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    I find if quite likely that at least parts of the track are damaged to the point that it cannot be reused. I'm still hopeful that they can find a way to reuse the path through the heart of TL though. If there are plans for a new motorbike style coaster it would be nice to see it still travel the path of the PM through the buildings of TL.
    I'd say that the double-portion of the PM track is in pretty good condition, given that it was made so curvy . . . and wide!, in order to look futuristic, but this seemingly superfluous amount of concrete/rebar probably added to its strength.

    The "bare bones" People Mover track, i.e. all that is needed safety-wise (and probably then some given how Disney likes overbuild, especially when Walt/Roy were calling the shots), over the Autopia might need some cosmetic repairs . . . structural integrity unknown, but it is apparent that even in this brave new world of OSHA regulations and lawsuits, Disney doesn't seem to be the slightest bit concerned that the PM track would collapse.

    Rocket Rods never even got close to accelerations/speeds which would damage the inside portions of the PM track, and more importantly, they are protected against acid rain/corrosion. They're probably as structurally sound as they day their pylons were poured.

    The RR had added sound effects, so I think that might add to the speculation that they were literally tearing up the track but concrete rebar structures are pretty durable, and can last centuries if properly maintained.

    Look at B-52s, the Air Force stopped making them in the 1960s, yet the Pentagon will fly them until the 2040s! It is because they were overdesigned with huge tolerances, and tolerances for less precise control systems of the era.

    I'd kinda like to think that Walt built his PM track to last, and he probably did given his and Roy's feelings about safety in the park.

  10. #70

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    Re: Peoplemover Track Being Worked On!

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    I hope that they find a way for more then one attraction to use all that space. Especially if Autopia goes as well, that would be losing a lot of attractions for just one new one.
    Bob Gurr expressed interest with upgrading Autopia to an electric version, I'm sure WDI could come up with some special effects (mini-Indy cars?), and design something other than "Freeways of Tomorrow!".

    If they put in a certain Star Wars rides into Innoventions, I could see them using some of the space for perhaps a counter service restaurant, maybe with a little show, but hard to see two full-fledged attractions given that RR's lack of show scenes (often lamented by Tony Baxter) was probably part of why it went away, in terms of guest satisfaction. Meaning, they'll probably need all that space for the queue and the show scenes, but I could very well be wrong.

  11. #71

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    Re: Peoplemover Track Being Worked On!

    Quote Originally Posted by disneylandfan95 View Post
    You aren't letting this go, are you?

    Just wait and see what happens. You can continue to debate the details, but the fact of the matter is that the tracks are coming down.

    Evening.
    You seem to be quite certain that the tracks are coming down, do you have factual evidence to back that up? As chesirecat has stated, Imagineering probably did their homework when it came to the RR's and the structural integrity of the PM tracks. I highly doubt that Disney would put something on those tracks if they felt it would get damaged and have vehicles fall into the Sub Lagoon. All I've heard regarding the demise of the RR's were the tire issue and the software not being up to par. Yes, there were "rumors" of the PM track being damaged but have never been confirmed by true sources as far as I know.
    Additionally, if the tracks were that damaged, I have a feeling OSHA would have wanted those tracks down shortly after the RR's closed due to earthquake concerns.
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  12. #72

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    Re: Peoplemover Track Being Worked On!

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    I have a feeling OSHA would have wanted those tracks down shortly after the RR's closed due to earthquake concerns.
    Excellent point.
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  13. #73

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    Re: Peoplemover Track Being Worked On!

    This is great news! They keep saying that if you look hard enough, you'll see previews of new rides at D23 expo. Everyone keep they're eye open for any peoplemover related pictures, documents, or sketches!

    Here's an interesting question: would you rather see the People mover come back as a ride based on a movie, or not come back at all. Those are probably the two options we have.

  14. #74

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    Re: Peoplemover Track Being Worked On!

    Isn't it funny that with the latest OSHA violation Disney got in the last couple of months there no violation on the people mover track. Maybe Disney knows something we don't

  15. #75

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    Re: Peoplemover Track Being Worked On!

    Just a quick fyi, I rode the Monorail in a little while ago, and as far as I could see the entire outdoor portion of the track already has a walkway with a railing on one side of the track.


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