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  1. #31

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    Re: Controversy Over New Route for DLR's Coming Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I kinda think a third gate is coming much sooner rather than later. The streetcar project would facilitate such a project as the Katella/Haster stop would allow walking access to the third gate. I don't think its a coincidence that both of these stops are on the 3rd gate side of Harbor. A walkway over Harbor is much needed anyway, for the Disneyland/DCA traffic.
    I really hope Disney is not planning on using the streetcar as the primary method of transportation between the existing parks and the third gate. That would be really cheap and classless to make guests go out and pay for public transportation to park hop if they don't want to or are unable to walk.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  2. #32

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    Re: Controversy Over New Route for DLR's Coming Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    I really hope Disney is not planning on using the streetcar as the primary method of transportation between the existing parks and the third gate. That would be really cheap and classless to make guests go out and pay for public transportation to park hop if they don't want to or are unable to walk.
    The only way the third gate will work is if Disney adds a new monorail line & a transportation center somewhere by Mickey & Friends. The trolleys will likely not be the kind of mass-transit system capable of feeding that third gate with a healthy stream of guests.
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  3. #33

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    Re: Controversy Over New Route for DLR's Coming Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by G24T View Post
    The only way the third gate will work is if Disney adds a new monorail line & a transportation center somewhere by Mickey & Friends. The trolleys will likely not be the kind of mass-transit system capable of feeding that third gate with a healthy stream of guests.
    I bet the streetcars will have a higher capacity then DL's Monorails. They have standing room, you can cram a ton of people onto a streetcar and this one is going to have three large cars. Plus, if it's only meant for park-hopping, the demand would be spread out so that shouldn't be a problem. (Plus with the layout of the street car, either direction takes you close to the third gate.)

    The challenge will be with parking, because that creates a demand neither a monorail or a streetcar could handle. If the parking garage for the third gate is at Pumbaa, then they probably will go cheap and just add a tram somehow from Pumbaa to the third gate. It seems like it would be possible to go right along the back of Garden Walk. Ideally it would be elevated as to easily cross Disney Way and Katella. Then people park-hopping will have to walk over the bridge crossing Harbor and get on the trams. I don't see current Disney putting in some kind of major transportation project and that would work adequately.

    But that's why this bridge is of such benefit to Disney. It will make their eventual transport of guests to the third gate much easier as it eliminates the most difficult street crossing. Plus now when they build the parking structure at Pumbaa, the bridge they need will already be there.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  4. #34

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    Re: Controversy Over New Route for DLR's Coming Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    I really hope Disney is not planning on using the streetcar as the primary method of transportation between the existing parks and the third gate. That would be really cheap and classless to make guests go out and pay for public transportation to park hop if they don't want to or are unable to walk.
    No, I doubt Disney could feasibly do that even if they wanted to, the foot traffic would be too great. Probably trams from the esplanade, and a dedicated tram from the Disneyland Hotel, would travel down Disney's property next to Harbor (probably why they pushed the streetcar station across Harbor), and would utilized some of an underpass to access the third gate, separating the tram from traffic.

  5. #35

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    Re: Controversy Over New Route for DLR's Coming Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by G24T View Post
    The only way the third gate will work is if Disney adds a new monorail line & a transportation center somewhere by Mickey & Friends. The trolleys will likely not be the kind of mass-transit system capable of feeding that third gate with a healthy stream of guests.
    Not even a monorail would be able to handle the park hoppers from the Esplanade. Think about the line for the monorail . . . only a fraction of Disneyland guests stay at the Disneyland Hotel, and of these guests, some walk over to Disneyland or use alternative transportation. Only a small percentage of guests use the monorail to enter Disneyland.

  6. #36

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    Re: Controversy Over New Route for DLR's Coming Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    No, I doubt Disney could feasibly do that even if they wanted to, the foot traffic would be too great. Probably trams from the esplanade, and a dedicated tram from the Disneyland Hotel, would travel down Disney's property next to Harbor (probably why they pushed the streetcar station across Harbor), and would utilized some of an underpass to access the third gate, separating the tram from traffic.
    How would a tram get from the DLH to Harbor? Also, I'm pretty sure the streetcar will run along the DCA side of Harbor and it probably wouldn't be a good idea to tunnel under it for the trams. I think they'll just have a tram from Pumbaa to the third gate. I also think avoiding Harbor completely and going behind Garden Walk makes more sense.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  7. #37

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    Re: Controversy Over New Route for DLR's Coming Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    No, I doubt Disney could feasibly do that even if they wanted to, the foot traffic would be too great. Probably trams from the esplanade, and a dedicated tram from the Disneyland Hotel, would travel down Disney's property next to Harbor (probably why they pushed the streetcar station across Harbor), and would utilized some of an underpass to access the third gate, separating the tram from traffic.
    Sorry, double post...
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  8. #38

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    Re: Controversy Over New Route for DLR's Coming Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I think I read that for the plan to be feasible, there has to be a stop at the pedestrian entrance to the esplanade off of Harbor, a lot of families would be p.o.'d if they got off at a combined Anaheim Convention Center/Disneyland stop and had to walk up to Disneyland from there. It isn't any secret that the city hopes to make money over time, off of the streetcar's access to Disneyland. It will eventually be a steady, yet modest, cash cow for the city after the costs are paid off, and when you look at more tax dollars and business for the community, kinda makes sense.

    Disney can afford $30 million . . . if a project makes sense, every decision of that magnitude has to make sense to the shareholders. Can't just hand out $30 million to make the Anaheim City Council feel rosy about the project.
    I'm sure Disney can afford $30 million but I just think going after them just because the stop is closest to one of the biggest draws in Anaheim, is kind of foolish. The folks along the DTLA streetcar route all voted to increase their own taxes for the funding of the streetcar cause everyone would benefit - they didnt go after AEG to hand out money.

  9. #39

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    Re: Controvery Over New Route for DLR's Coming Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Answer: the combined citizens and businesses of Anaheim.

    The fact that Disney pays more taxes than any single entity is irrelevant to the facts that they will profit most from the streetcar and that they are demanding it be changed to fit to their specifications. Therefore they should pay for those changes.
    true but don't you think the business around and on the line also benefit from the change of the line. Many Disney patrons which would not likely walk to the mall or other business in the middle of a Disney day would probably be more willing to hop on a trolley and go eat at one of the establishments near the trolley line.

    I think it goes both ways.

    Should Disney help with the trolley line? of course they should but we can't just say that this change would only benefit them

  10. #40

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    Re: Controversy Over New Route for DLR's Coming Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    How would a tram get from the DLH to Harbor?
    I think if they have a 3rd Gate, they'll want to have at least two tram routes, one from the DLH, and one from the Esplanade/GCH to the 3rd gate. I think that if they pull the trigger on such a project, they'll have to build an underground tram passageway in the Esplanade, to get the tram from DLH over to Harbor, with a stop at the Esplanade, and then have a kitty-corner underground passage for both trams to get under Harbor and over to the 3rd gate, kinda close to the Katella/Harbor intersection. I believe Disney owns some empty lots/motels around Katella-Harbor.

    I kinda feel that any Esplanade make-over is kinda delayed until they decide what to do with the third gate. Plenty of room for a Tram station to the 3rd Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    I think they'll just have a tram from Pumbaa to the third gate. I also think avoiding Harbor completely and going behind Garden Walk makes more sense.
    Disney should probably buy Garden Walk, but no need to do it before construction on a third gate begins, it is kinda distressed property now, they can afford to wait. Probably have hotels behind the Garden Walk buildings, and Garden Walk will get a massive make over.

  11. #41

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    Re: Controvery Over New Route for DLR's Coming Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post

    I think it goes both ways.

    Should Disney help with the trolley line? of course they should but we can't just say that this change would only benefit them
    In particular I could see the streetcar being a real boon to the offsite hotels near the streetcar stations. By having access to fast, reliable transportation to the parks the offsite hotels become a far more attractive option compared to the overpriced onsite resorts.

  12. #42

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    Re: Controversy Over New Route for DLR's Coming Streetcar

    Name:  Third Gate Tram Route.png
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    Underground section of Tram route would be in yellow (underneath esplanade), the tram from DLH/Mickey & Friends parking garage would stop at the area in orange and continue under the promenade, the red area near Guest Relations would be the load area for trams to the 3rd Gate, the blue would be the continuation of the trams toward the third gate.

    They'll probably want the tram station to the third gate from the esplanade near Guest Relations, as a lot of folks will want to know how to get to the third gate.

    Getting to the third gate will be tricky, if they can't do a tunnel, then they could go with an elevated tram platform, the areas in yellow would be said elevated platform, if elevated, the areas in blue would probably have to be elevated too given pedestrians.

    Name:  Katella Tram.png
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    Last edited by chesirecat; 08-19-2013 at 09:08 AM.

  13. #43

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    Re: Controversy Over New Route for DLR's Coming Streetcar

    I thought that the primary objective of the streetcar is to transport people from the ARTIC, which is currently under construction, to the DLR with stops along the way. This is not meant for transportation between the parks or future parks. I would think there is an alternate plan for something like that.

  14. #44

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    Re: Controversy Over New Route for DLR's Coming Streetcar

    If I remember correctly, there was an article here on MiceAge a few years ago that Disney was being prevented by the city from building the much-needed parking structure where the Pumbaa lot is now because they had to wait until the city started building the streetcar system so that their could be a stop at the Pumbaa lot. According to that article, Disney was not happy about the that at all and didn't want a stop at the parking lot. So I would definitely take this news article with a grain of salt. It cited a blogger as it's source, not someone from Disney or the City of Anaheim, so there may be more to the story then what was reported here.

    Also, as an aside, I still don't believe that the streetcar is ever going to be built. It costs too much money, there is too much red tape, too much bickering among politicians who are only looking out for themselves, and in the end, it may end up creating more traffic problems then it solves.
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  15. #45

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    Re: Controversy Over New Route for DLR's Coming Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by Big D View Post
    If I remember correctly, there was an article here on MiceAge a few years ago that Disney was being prevented by the city from building the much-needed parking structure where the Pumbaa lot is now because they had to wait until the city started building the streetcar system so that their could be a stop at the Pumbaa lot. According to that article, Disney was not happy about the that at all and didn't want a stop at the parking lot. So I would definitely take this news article with a grain of salt. It cited a blogger as it's source, not someone from Disney or the City of Anaheim, so there may be more to the story then what was reported here.

    Also, as an aside, I still don't believe that the streetcar is ever going to be built. It costs too much money, there is too much red tape, too much bickering among politicians who are only looking out for themselves, and in the end, it may end up creating more traffic problems then it solves.
    Who knows what will happen, but I think the streetcar has a good chance of happening, I think a lot of the criticism comes from people in Anaheim who just naturally like to criticize Disney. Not sure what a streetcar has to do with a parking garage, as I don't think the purpose is to shuttle guests from Pumbaa to Disneyland. The goal of any streetcar is to take cars off the roads, and presumably guests arriving on the street car won't necessarily be parking at DLR, they might leave their car at the stadium after a game and take the streetcar over.

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