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  1. #136

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post

    As Wiggins alluded to some pages ago, the problem really isn't the coffee--it's the "brand" and the "feeling" that brand evokes. Starbucks evokes a very modern, shopping-mall-esque, dare I say non-wholesome feeling; Walmart would evoke a very similar feeling. As would a 7-11 replacing Coke Corner....

    Swift, Coke, Hills Brothers or Carnation never sufferd from this problem, and the feelings they evoked were much differnt than Starbucks, Walmart or McDonalds
    You forgot the other original Main Street sponsors like Timex, Wurlitzer, Hallmark, Insurance of North America, Bekins Van Lines, Sunkist, Kodak, American Egg Board, and Upjohn Pharmacy.

    In their day (1950's and 60's) those were all solid companies, but companies that existed in the modern world and sold their goods and services to the consumers visiting Disneyland. Carnation milk sponsored the Burns & Allen TV show that was very popular to 1957 visitors to Disneyland, and Hallmark and Bekins and Timex and Kodak were all modern brands living in the modern age beyond the berm, while selling their modern wares inside the berm. Upjohn Pharmacy passing out free vitamin pills on Main Street was the CVS or Walgreens of its day, and you can imagine the horror if CVS put in an old-fashioned pharmacy today.

    The Starbucks will be gorgeously themed and lovingly decorated. And it fits perfectly into not just the building, but into Walt's original vision of Main Street and Disneyland as being a showcase for American Free Enterprise and the best of American commerce and industry.

    And it will be wildly popular with paying visitors, too.

    I would also say that the equation of Starbucks with Walmart sponsoring the Emporium is wildly inequitable. The more equitable analogy would be if Starbucks was on one corner, while Nordstrom sponsored the Emporium on the other corner.
    Last edited by Westsider; 08-27-2013 at 01:05 PM.

  2. #137

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    So what is the problem? The feel of the brand? The feel of the new layout?

    I personally find the brand perfect for MS. Sure it may be fairly new, but I feel as though SB has an old soul if that makes sense. It also has more class than wal mart, mcdonalds, or any other exaggerated comparison. So to me, SB fits fine. I don't see tacky, I don't see malls, and I don't see an evil corporation. I simply see a premium coffee company with a vintage-ish feel. But this is just opinions and points of view. No right or wrong.

    Unfortunately the layout cannot be helped no matter which way you slice it. No matter what brand or company disney chose, the goal was to bring good coffee that people want. Bring good coffee, regardless from where, and you will see crowds that warrant a layout like this. It is located in an extremely popular theme park after all. The only thing that made the old layout possible was the crap coffee. And keeping crap coffee just to keep customers away and preserve a small layout just seems...wrong.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  3. #138

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeekery View Post
    Maybe I just think about this differently since I'm in marketing, but if 10 people walked by a generic Disney coffee shop, how many would stop and get coffee compared to 10 people walking past a Starbucks in Disneyland?

    Nobody does market research like Disney so I'm sure they may ruffle some feathers of the traditionalists but they are a customer service company. They know what's best for their brand and their bottom line.
    If Disney announced their new sponsorship with Starbucks providing all the coffee in the park, there would be no need to specify any particular food service location to get Starbucks coffee. And especially no need to create a specific Starbucks branded location.

    While the signage on the outside may not be that obtrusive, the interior has been converted into a modern (though earl century appointed) Starbucks retail establishment that would fit well in any mall.

  4. #139

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFan1995 View Post
    If Disney announced their new sponsorship with Starbucks providing all the coffee in the park, there would be no need to specify any particular food service location to get Starbucks coffee. And especially no need to create a specific Starbucks branded location.

    While the signage on the outside may not be that obtrusive, the interior has been converted into a modern (though earl century appointed) Starbucks retail establishment that would fit well in any mall.
    Got a bit of decor around the outside but yeah, still a big open barn that could go into a mall. Boring.

    What do I think of the DCA one? Meh. Good location for a coffee place, but it didn't have to be SB. I would stop there on my way out of the park for a coffee whether it's a super-special brand or regular coffee; I'm not that picky. Does have the same layout problem that the new Market House will- it's built to get high traffic flow, that's exactly what it feels like. Ok, you got your stuff, so get out. Doesn't feel particularly welcoming, in spite of having seats.
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  5. #140

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFan1995 View Post
    If Disney announced their new sponsorship with Starbucks providing all the coffee in the park, there would be no need to specify any particular food service location to get Starbucks coffee. And especially no need to create a specific Starbucks branded location.

    While the signage on the outside may not be that obtrusive, the interior has been converted into a modern (though earl century appointed) Starbucks retail establishment that would fit well in any mall.
    Precisely, this nonsense that Disney needed to gut a well themed floor plan from 1955 to install a mall styled Starbucks is disturbing. There are many alternatives which you have specified that would keep demand at this particular location to a manageable level. Offering basic Starbucks coffee around the entire park would help; they could keep fancier drinks exclusive to Main Street.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    So what is the problem? The feel of the brand? The feel of the new layout?
    It's both, but I can live with Starbucks, I just don't prefer it. The layout change and utter disregard for the history of Main Street is what I take issue with.
    Last edited by Seawolf; 08-27-2013 at 03:15 PM.

  6. #141

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    How soon before people start calling it "Starbucks" instead of "Market House?"
    I still call it "Swift's."







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  7. #142

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Maybe all the discussion will die down once the construction is complete and we can all formulate stable opinions once we see it in real life. Must like the Fantasy Faire, there was much debate over the location, what attraction it took over, how the colors contrasted badly, how it didn't fit the theme, etc. Those opinions were based a lot on concept art and construction photos. Once the real Faire was revealed to the public, the opinions were cemented and people moved on.

    Whose to say this won't be any different? Either you will like it and will buy their coffee, hate it and avoid going into the store, or just not care about it in general and still enjoy your day at Disneyland.



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  8. #143

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    The layout change and utter disregard for the history of Main Street is what I take issue with.
    This seems like the gist of the complaints in this thread. But, I don't understand this argument. Since when is older better? Isn't any business that still does business the way it did in 1955 destined to fail? This Starbucks change seems like a genuine attempt by Disney to respond to the public's changing preferences in taste, branding, and services in a way that is as consistent as possible with the theme of Main Street. Leaving it the way it is could be considered utter disregard for the wishes of their customers.

    You can argue Disney failed to perform an analysis to determine if this change is good for business, but you'd have a hard time finding anyone who believes you . You can argue Disney should have some motive other than improving business, but that's not how our economy works .

    This strikes me as similar to the frequent complaints on this forum about how CM's aren't as (fill in the blank) as they used to be. It's a different world today. I can understand not liking the way the world is changing, but it wouldn't be responsible of Disney to swim upstream against the cultural tide .

  9. #144

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    How about being a leader in guiding the cultural tide in good ways?
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  10. #145

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    One failure does not justify another. Nobody denies that there have been questionable sponsorships on the past, but that does not justify further devolving themed experience into themed decoration. In themed experience, the theme influences far more than just the look. It influences everything, the look, the feel, the sound, the smell, the taste, everything about the experience is touched and influenced.

    That Disney is creating the demand for Starbucks by not wholly replacing the horrid coffee served across the property only creates a false justification for a contemporary interior with faux historic decor. Universal has shown that small spaces for shops can be accomplished, and a wholesale replace of the coffee would reduce the demand on a single location. But taste was never the real reason for why Disney so aggressively pursued Starbucks for years. It was always more about image.

  11. #146

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Rammikin View Post
    This seems like the gist of the complaints in this thread. But, I don't understand this argument. Since when is older better? Isn't any business that still does business the way it did in 1955 destined to fail? This Starbucks change seems like a genuine attempt by Disney to respond to the public's changing preferences in taste, branding, and services in a way that is as consistent as possible with the theme of Main Street. Leaving it the way it is could be considered utter disregard for the wishes of their customers.
    You should try telling Europeans to tear down all those old and detailed structures from the past because they weren't so modern or meant to handle large crowds... Even better, lets put a Starbucks in one of them, knock out all of those inefficiently detailed walls and have one long queue line and pretend we blended it in with the original architecture.

    You can argue Disney failed to perform an analysis to determine if this change is good for business, but you'd have a hard time finding anyone who believes you . You can argue Disney should have some motive other than improving business, but that's not how our economy works .
    How our economy works isn't so cut and dry. In this case, Disneyland's model is somewhat different to the average mall or amusement park. People appreciate Disneyland on a higher level than lets say a Universal because of its rich history and heritage, otherwise they could have leveled Main Street a long time ago and expanded.

    To say that we should change everything in the park no matter how big the loss, will result in an eventual failure of their business model which has given them the ability to charge such high prices. They will have to start competing with Universal and their competitors because they have nothing unique or different to offer (the problem with DCA). The park doesn't just excel due to its attractions, Disneyland is much more than that.

    This strikes me as similar to the frequent complaints on this forum about how CM's aren't as (fill in the blank) as they used to be. It's a different world today. I can understand not liking the way the world is changing, but it wouldn't be responsible of Disney to swim upstream against the cultural tide .
    That's the difference between industry leaders and trend followers. Those who are at the top of their game do not copy or go along with cultural tides, they create their own.
    Last edited by Seawolf; 08-27-2013 at 05:06 PM.

  12. #147

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by alphabassetgrrl View Post
    How about being a leader in guiding the cultural tide in good ways?
    Ah, yep.

    Nail on head.

  13. #148

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    That's the difference between industry leaders and trend followers. Those who are at the top of their game do not copy or go along with cultural tides, they create their own.
    Amen to that. But in business, nobody ever became a leader by resisting change.

  14. #149

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Rammikin View Post
    Amen to that. But in business, nobody ever became a leader by resisting change.
    What change?

  15. #150

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Some are bringing the topic of brand into this conversation and I will throw in my two cents.

    When I think of Starbucks, I think of modern street corners, not turn of the century America.
    When I think of Starbucks, I think of modern corporate America, not turn of the century America.
    When I think of Starbucks, I think of hipsters plugged into their IPods, not turn of the century America.
    When I think of Starbucks, I think I can go down the street and get one and then go to Disneyland and not have even more of modern America to think about.
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