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  1. #211

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Jenny1987 View Post
    Judging by how inconspicuous the Starbucks in DCA is, and seeing how the Market House will still be the Market House, I'm ok with this. Much better than the Nescafe crap.
    I would owe that more to Buena Vista Street being a thematic mess.

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    How is the Starbucks brand destroying the theme? The Market House depicted in the concept art appears to be well-themed, and it does not scream the modern Starbucks that you suggest. In fact, Starbucks references are quite subtle. There are no modern electronic Starbucks signs that you would find at a typical Starbucks. There are no modern looking tables/chairs that you can find in a typical Starbucks. There are no modern looking designs in the interior that you would find in a typical Starbucks. Sure, they are expanding the room in favor of more queue space, but in an increasingly busy park like Disneyland, efficiency is important when considering guest satisfaction.

    The brand identity does scream modern in the Starbucks found at malls or near your house, but at Disneyland this is changed entirely to blend into the environment.
    How many times must it be said that theme goes beyond aesthetics?

  2. #212

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    I would owe that more to Buena Vista Street being a thematic mess.


    How many times must it be said that theme goes beyond aesthetics?
    for me until someone can explain the difference in Nescafe being served and Starbucks being served.

  3. #213

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    I welcome sponsorship. It helps subsidize the operating costs and keeps prices down.
    That may NOT be true. As I understand it, sponsorship money kind of goes into a corporate sponsor fund and isn't necessarily actually used for any aspect of the attraction that the sponsor is sponsoring. The only benefit that Disneyland may get out of the Starbucks sponsorship is having their CM's trained on the equipment (providing them with a skill that they could actually make more money with in the not too distant future).

  4. #214

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post

    How many times must it be said that theme goes beyond aesthetics?
    So then what more are you seeking in the new Market House rather than aesthetics? It will smell like a coffee shop, it will have props like the pot belly stove, the coffee will taste like coffee. It won't be an exact recreation but rather an idealized vision of a coffee shop during the turn of the 20th century.
    Last edited by frollofan; 08-28-2013 at 07:15 PM.

  5. #215

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by biggsworth View Post
    for me until someone can explain the difference in Nescafe being served and Starbucks being served.
    Nescafé was just the coffee served. It was not an entire line of contemporary coffees at a location specifically created to house those contemporary coffees to serve the ego of those who 'got' Starbucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    So then what more are you seeking in the new Market House rather than aesthetics? It will smell like a coffee shop, it will have props like the pot belly stove, the coffee will taste like coffee. It won't be an exact recreation but rather an idealized vision of a coffee shop during the turn of the 20th century.
    Image. Identity. What idealized early 20th century coffee shop is serving up something like the Starbucks menu? This is why food and beverage sales at Universal Orlando Resort have skyrocketed, because people respond to food items unique to and derived from the experience.

  6. #216

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Image. Identity. What idealized early 20th century coffee shop is serving up something like the Starbucks menu? This is why food and beverage sales at Universal Orlando Resort have skyrocketed, because people respond to food items unique to and derived from the experience.
    You could say the same thing about other foods and drinks. What idealized European medieval fair sold Welch's grape juice, an American brand? What idealized turn of the 20th century town sold Dreyer's ice cream on the menu, founded in 1928? While unique options for food would be nice if prepared with effort, I would rather have a brand selling a tasty drink rather than one that is unique and/or "period appropriate" tasting nasty.

  7. #217

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Image. Identity. What idealized early 20th century coffee shop is serving up something like the Starbucks menu? This is why food and beverage sales at Universal Orlando Resort have skyrocketed, because people respond to food items unique to and derived from the experience.
    Exactly. Universal increasingly is going for the unique "elsewhen" experience, while Disney increasingly is going for the pre-sold franchise brand experience associated with modern mall culture.

    Once upon a time, Disney's ideal was to create experiences unique to inside the berm. Experiences that evoked other times and other places. Not any more. No matter how much faux period decor Disney tries to disguise it with, the venue and menu say high-volume mall Starbucks, complete with its associations of modern commuter-consumer lifestyle.

    All of which is completely in keeping with Disney Corp's vision for Disneyland as a marketing-mall-with-rides, the purpose of which is to capitalize on selling pre-popularized franchise brands to a mass customer base of branded-lifestyle consumers. Disneyland's once world-famous originality, ingenuity, imagination and freshness is being replaced by a beancounter's heaven of brands, brands, and more brands -- all as interchangeable as Starbucks' paper cups, and ultimately as disposable.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 08-28-2013 at 08:56 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
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  8. #218

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    You could say the same thing about other foods and drinks. What idealized European medieval fair sold Welch's grape juice, an American brand? What idealized turn of the 20th century town sold Dreyer's ice cream on the menu, founded in 1928? While unique options for food would be nice if prepared with effort, I would rather have a brand selling a tasty drink rather than one that is unique and/or "period appropriate" tasting nasty.
    You're still focusing on specific products and names. You need to step away from that. And past mistakes and less than stellar choices do not justify new ones. And who said a drink derived from the experience had to taste nasty? That is a ridiculous false choice that only echoes Disney's own lack of belief in themed entertainment as a creative medium. Butterbeer is an actual drink dating back centuries but it's not what everybody is guzzling in The Wizarding World of Harry Potter nor is the Flaming Moe a highly alcoholic shot topped off with cough syrup.

  9. #219

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Exactly. Universal increasingly is going for the unique "elsewhen" experience, while Disney increasingly is going for the pre-sold franchise brand experience associated with modern mall culture.

    Once upon a time, Disney's ideal was to create experiences unique to inside the berm. Experiences that evoked other times and other places. Not any more. No matter how much faux period decor Disney tries to disguise it with, the venue and menu say high-volume mall Starbucks, complete with its associations of modern commuter-consumer lifestyle.

    All of which is completely in keeping with Disney Corp's vision for Disneyland as a marketing-mall-with-rides, the purpose of which is to capitalize on selling pre-popularized franchise brands to a mass customer base of branded-lifestyle consumers. Disneyland's once world-famous originality, ingenuity, imagination and freshness is being replaced by a beancounter's heaven of brands, brands, and more brands -- all as interchangeable as Starbucks' paper cups, and ultimately as disposable.
    Then get rid of ALL brands, even Coca Cola. If we want originality, ingenuity, imagination, then there would be no brands in the first place.

  10. #220

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    Then get rid of ALL brands, even Coca Cola. If we want originality, ingenuity, imagination, then there would be no brands in the first place.
    How does that make any sense? The issue is not brands in general but the selection and application.

  11. #221

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    Starbucks doesn't just brew up a batch of coffee that they dole out to customers. Since they have their "routine" that they have to go through, it will take ten times longer to serve a cup of coffee. People complaining about the lines at Market House BEFORE Starbucks will have even more to complain about when having to wait behind an even bigger crowd (needing a Starbucks fix) and the extra time it takes to prepare their favorite mix.
    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post

    The coffee itself is NOT all that difficult to make. It's all the special treatment it gets that's the problem. They could easily and quickly make and serve GOOD Starbucks coffee (way better than the BAD coffee Disney currently sells) if they didn't have to provide it with all the bells and whistles. Going to the EXTREME of creating the barista specials is probably the key reason that they have to provide such a huge storage pen for guests.



    So special treatment is a bad thing? Shouldn't we welcome options? And shouldn't we also welcome the one company who can provide those options at theme park pace? Its not like specialty coffee drinks are a new thing. The jolly Holiday...attempts to make them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    FYI Starbucks fans--Your theme park is eroding and you don't even know it, because you're so focused on that Grande Frappe Latté.


    How can you say that? The only thing "eroding" it is the brand image, according to you. And from what I've gathered, the people who support SB don't see the brand "image" the same as you. Like I've said before. I see a premium coffee company, with a classy image, that embraces the vintage, and has an old soul for being a relatively new brand. I don't see the "modern outside world" or "malls" in SB any more or less than I see those things in Coke or Carnation.

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Nescafé was just the coffee served. It was not an entire line of contemporary coffees at a location specifically created to house those contemporary coffees to serve the ego of those who 'got' Starbucks.


    Image. Identity. What idealized early 20th century coffee shop is serving up something like the Starbucks menu? This is why food and beverage sales at Universal Orlando Resort have skyrocketed, because people respond to food items unique to and derived from the experience.

    So now its the product? I thought it was the brand and image that was the main problem? If products matter so much in thematic integrity then we need to do something about a lot of the food offerings in the parks...

    Since the opinion of SB being so sacrilegious to DL is beginning to appear presented as fact, can we get a unified consensus on what exactly is bad about whats happening here?
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  12. #222

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Scary Scott View Post
    Long story infinite, the design looks great, and in my opinion, people are more worried about the image that Starbucks brings to mind outside the park, than what they can offer inside the park.
    This sums up a lot of what I feel about the whole ordeal. I don't mind the Starbucks being there, and think the concept art is great looking. I can't wait to see how the concept works out in real life as well, and then compare and contrast with this thread when the time comes to see if the concerns of either side have risen yet.

    Also...



    Quote Originally Posted by Scary Scott View Post
    Applejack for the win.



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  13. #223

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    Since the opinion of SB being so sacrilegious to DL is beginning to appear presented as fact, can we get a unified consensus on what exactly is bad about whats happening here?
    Not much consensus. Some people just don't like Starbucks and/or what it represents, some don't want the corporate image in Disneyland, some don't want anything not temporally accurate, and some are opposed to any thematic change and/or incongruity.

    Me? I question changes for any number of reasons, then weigh that against how it impacts my experience. As such, I tend to allow some thematic slippage if it benefits me. I like good coffee and would love getting some in the park. I think Starbucks is way better than Nescafe - not all coffee tastes good to me. The changes are not as intrusive as I suspected. There has always been commercial sponsorships - some I like, some I don't (didn't).

    Net outcome: I'm fine with it for now.







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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by biggsworth View Post
    for me until someone can explain the difference in Nescafe being served and Starbucks being served.
    Actually, IIRC, you really didn't know what brand of coffee you were getting, because there was no signage, advertising, logos, names, etc. There are still some folks who claim to be CMs that are adamant that the coffee wasn't actually Nescafe.

    Now you know exactly what brand you're getting, and that brand is incompatible with a 19th century Main Street theme.

  15. #225

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Now you know exactly what brand you're getting, and that brand is incompatible with a 19th century Main Street theme.
    Exactly. And in this case, the 19th century Main Street General Store is incompatible with the brand.

    And guess which one gets gutted.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


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