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  1. #361

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Westsider--I see your point regarding Nordstrom, certainly. But I believe the point being made by Steve references the proper name of a Main Street establishment being overwhelmed and overshadowed (and possibly outright replaced) by the sponsor's name (irrespective of the sponsorship's product).

    How would everyone feel if The Emporium was re-invented as simply another Disney Store (though one could argue it already has)? Would anyone care that its proper name was being replaced? Would anyone care that a tradition was being lost? Would anyone notice? I dunno. It seems to me that this is the core issue.

    Main Street is slowly losing its unique charm, personality and individual identity and many hate to see it go.


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  2. #362

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    So wait...if a main argument is that the original shops originated before or at the turn of the century. Does that mean any of you wouldn't complain if Starbucks came around the same time too? The fact is even during the 'golden age' of Main Street it already started too lose its charm when Disneyland Showcase opened in the Wurlitzer Music Shop.




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  3. #363

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    Way to skate the question.
    I will go out on a limb and say most will call it Starbucks.
    I'm not skating anything. You and I do not have specific numbers to support whether or not the majority will call it Starbucks, and you will never know for sure solely based on personal experience. And personally, I will say who cares what others call it. In my heart I know it's still the Market House and what others say doesn't matter to me.
    Last edited by frollofan; 08-30-2013 at 02:43 PM.

  4. #364

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Great pics Westsider, and valid points.

  5. #365

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFan1995 View Post
    Disney has for decades had sponsorship for everything from food to attractions. But they didn't convert every one into a retail location for the sponsor.
    Not every one, but a bunch did.

    They only converted them into retail locations for the sponsors when the sponsor had something to sell that a person visiting a theme park would want. Kodak film and Coca-Cola, for example, offered goods and services that theme park visitors needed, so they got to run full-fledged stores selling their modern wares to modern customers.

    Gulf Oil or Monsanto or GE or General Dynamics or Wurlitzer or Bekins Van Lines, on the other hand, sold goods and services a theme park visitor wouldn't need in a theme park; gasoline or AstroTurf or jet engines. Or the goods and services they were selling were too big or not conducive to being sold in a theme park; toaster ovens or grand pianos or moving van services.

    But if it was something small and marketable to a theme park visitor, then the sponsor went full-tilt into consumerism mode and sold their modern plethora of products to the Disneyland guest. Kodak, for example, was a long standing sponsor of camera shops on Main Street USA. And the interior of their camera shops in the Walt-era of the 1950's and 60's was simply a carbon copy of any modern camera shop in America at that time, using modern Kodak displays and signage and surfaces to sell the product.

    Interior shots are hard to find, but they are out there. Here's a young guest standing inside the Kodak Camera Store on Main Street USA in 1959. There is modern linoleum on the floor, and modern display racks from the Kodak corporate office plopped around the shop, with modern Kodak logos and marketing slogans plastered on everything. No theme, no elaborate backstory, no Imagineer overcharging TDA for a hundred labor hours spent researching what exact color wood stain to paint the hand carved queue railings. Just a modern Kodak camera shop serving happy 1950's visitors.

  6. #366

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Well now I'm kind of disappointed I could never purchase a Jet engine or a rocket at Disneyland =/
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  7. #367

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    You tell me, what will most visitors call it? Market House or Starbucks?
    I call it just another step on Disney Corp's continuing road of turning Disneyland into a marketing mall. They've long since repainted Main Street's buildings the color scheme of modern malls, turned the Castle into a Pepto-Bismol homage to Barbie toy packaging, hung Miley Cyrus in the exit to Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln, branded one of Main Street U.S.A.'s restaurants with Mary Poppins, turned two Tomorrowland attractions into showcases for Pixar cartoons, replaced an all-American bear show in the American woods with a ride about a British cartoon bear, repurposed UNICEF's famous homage to world peace as a Where's Waldo of branded cartoon characters, and turned Pirates of the Carribean and Tom Sawyer Island into promotions for a Jerry Bruckheimer film franchise. Replacing the cozy, old-fashioned Main Street Market House with mall style high-volume Starbucks, one of America's most well known icons of modern consumer-commuter culture, is just the latest example of the same thinking that has dominated Disney's theme parks since the advent of Eisner.

    It won't be the last. The transformation of the labor of love and creative genius that was Disneyland into a soulless marketing mall will continue, as befits a corporation that has handed the keys to Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom to a cadre of Chief Financial Officers, Strategic Planners and marketeers.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  8. #368

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    I call it just another step on Disney Corp's continuing road of turning Disneyland into a marketing mall. They've long since repainted Main Street's buildings the color scheme of modern malls, turned the Castle into a Pepto-Bismol homage to Barbie toy packaging, hung Miley Cyrus in the exit to Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln, branded one of Main Street U.S.A.'s restaurants with Mary Poppins, turned two Tomorrowland attractions into showcases for Pixar cartoons, replaced an all-American bear show in the American woods with a ride about a British cartoon bear, repurposed UNICEF's famous homage to world peace as a Where's Waldo of branded cartoon characters, and turned Pirates of the Carribean and Tom Sawyer Island into promotions for a Jerry Bruckheimer film franchise. Replacing the cozy, old-fashioned Main Street Market House with mall style high-volume Starbucks, one of America's most well known icons of modern consumer-commuter culture, is just the latest example of the same thinking that has dominated Disney's theme parks since the advent of Eisner.

    It won't be the last. The transformation of Disneyland into a brand marketing mall will continue, as befits a corporation that has handed the keys to Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom to a cadre of Chief Financial Officers, Strategic Planners and marketeers.
    Almost all the stuff you listed in the first paragraph were not improvements to the existing attractions, but were instead downgrades most of the time. I'm with you as far as that is concerned. However, replacing the Nescafe drinks with Starbucks drinks is improving what was there before imo. It is not the same Starbucks as in the mall.
    Last edited by frollofan; 08-30-2013 at 03:08 PM.

  9. #369

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    I call it just another step on Disney Corp's continuing road of turning Disneyland into a marketing mall. They've long since repainted Main Street's buildings the color scheme of modern malls, turned the Castle into a Pepto-Bismol homage to Barbie toy packaging, hung Miley Cyrus in the exit to Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln, branded one of Main Street U.S.A.'s restaurants with Mary Poppins, turned two Tomorrowland attractions into showcases for Pixar cartoons, replaced an all-American bear show in the American woods with a ride about a British cartoon bear, repurposed UNICEF's famous homage to world peace as a Where's Waldo of branded cartoon characters, and turned Pirates of the Carribean and Tom Sawyer Island into promotions for a Jerry Bruckheimer film franchise. Replacing the cozy, old-fashioned Main Street Market House with mall style high-volume Starbucks, one of America's most well known icons of modern consumer-commuter culture, is just the latest example of the same thinking that has dominated Disney's theme parks since the advent of Eisner.

    It won't be the last. The transformation of the labor of love and creative genius that was Disneyland into a soulless marketing mall will continue, as befits a corporation that has handed the keys to Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom to a cadre of Chief Financial Officers, Strategic Planners and marketeers.
    So what do you suggest needs to be done?
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  10. #370

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    Westsider--I see your point regarding Nordstrom, certainly. But I believe the point being made by Steve references the proper name of a Main Street establishment being overwhelmed and overshadowed (and possibly outright replaced) by the sponsor's name (irrespective of the sponsorship's product).

    How would everyone feel if The Emporium was re-invented as simply another Disney Store (though one could argue it already has)? Would anyone care that its proper name was being replaced? Would anyone care that a tradition was being lost? Would anyone notice? I dunno. It seems to me that this is the core issue.

    Main Street is slowly losing its unique charm, personality and individual identity and many hate to see it go.
    Bingo. Head, meet nail.
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Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”

  11. #371

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Westsider View Post
    Not every one, but a bunch did.

    They only converted them into retail locations for the sponsors when the sponsor had something to sell that a person visiting a theme park would want. Kodak film and Coca-Cola, for example, offered goods and services that theme park visitors needed, so they got to run full-fledged stores selling their modern wares to modern customers.

    Gulf Oil or Monsanto or GE or General Dynamics or Wurlitzer or Bekins Van Lines, on the other hand, sold goods and services a theme park visitor wouldn't need in a theme park; gasoline or AstroTurf or jet engines. Or the goods and services they were selling were too big or not conducive to being sold in a theme park; toaster ovens or grand pianos or moving van services.

    But if it was something small and marketable to a theme park visitor, then the sponsor went full-tilt into consumerism mode and sold their modern plethora of products to the Disneyland guest. Kodak, for example, was a long standing sponsor of camera shops on Main Street USA. And the interior of their camera shops in the Walt-era of the 1950's and 60's was simply a carbon copy of any modern camera shop in America at that time, using modern Kodak displays and signage and surfaces to sell the product.

    Interior shots are hard to find, but they are out there. Here's a young guest standing inside the Kodak Camera Store on Main Street USA in 1959. There is modern linoleum on the floor, and modern display racks from the Kodak corporate office plopped around the shop, with modern Kodak logos and marketing slogans plastered on everything. No theme, no elaborate backstory, no Imagineer overcharging TDA for a hundred labor hours spent researching what exact color wood stain to paint the hand carved queue railings. Just a modern Kodak camera shop serving happy 1950's visitors.
    I do like the hat.....
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  12. #372

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Well now I'm kind of disappointed I could never purchase a Jet engine or a rocket at Disneyland =/
    Hey, you could have purchased a bra though.....
    “No worries, stay calm, one question. 
Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”

  13. #373

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by 4th Gen Disney Fan View Post
    I think you may be reading a little too much into my username. I'm not the 4th Gen.... my kids are.

    I remember DisneyLand pre-1983 FantasyLand makeover. I remember a LOT of "the original charm". Don't generalize me based on my screen name. You are really reaching here....
    Seems that makes you third generation. Means that you are still two generations down though.

    By '83, some charm was probably lost, but if you don't feel that SINCE '83 that charm has been lost, then It appears that you are right, in that your generation is not the reason that you are willing to accept further small changes that weaken the creative quality of the park. Must be some other reason.

  14. #374

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    I'm pretty sure that 90% of the casual visitors will call it the same thing that I do every time I've gone to the park - "that place on Main Street to get some coffee on the way in/way out". I'm being honest - it never occurred to me for *years* that the location had a specific name beyond whatever Disney needed to call it for internal reference. It didn't really seem to need one.
    Probably because it wasn't a Starbucks (or equivalent) retail location, It was the Market House that sold coffee, treats and other assorted items. Those who knew they sold Hills Brothers coffee and had that as their favorite coffee probably called it Hills Brothers.

    I have no doubt that Market House will be called Starbucks once it's open.

  15. #375

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    Probably because it wasn't a Starbucks (or equivalent) retail location, It was the Market House that sold coffee, treats and other assorted items. Those who knew they sold Hills Brothers coffee and had that as their favorite coffee probably called it Hills Brothers.

    I have no doubt that Market House will be called Starbucks once it's open.
    I think that the sheer number of them they're putting in is going to prevent that.

    "Hey, let's go to Starbucks!"

    "Wait, you mean coffee place on Main Street? The cart by the trams? The one out in Downtown Disney? Which one?"

    ~or~

    "Hey, let's grab some coffee down on Main Street on the way out!"

    "YEAH!"

    ___

    I'm really not joking - I've been texting friends asking about this, and other than the Disney nuts the amount that even have a clue where the Market House is hovers close to zero. I don't think most people even bother assigning a name to it beyond "place to get coffee".

    Honestly, if they attach ANY name to it - and I still think that's a longshot, see "3 Pigs" vs "Starbucks" as a discussion there - it's likely to be a good thing. For one, it'll show they finally got the place to register a distinct identity worth naming with them.
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

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