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  1. #376

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Westsider View Post
    But what would they sell? It wouldn't be the $500 cashmere sweaters and fancy dresses and expensive Italian shoes that your local Nordstrom sells. The Emporium, Presented by Nordstrom would still have to sell all the same Chinese-made plastic junk and hunks of Chinese-made vinylmation "collectibles" and cheap souvenirs and t-shirts they currently sell to theme park visitors.
    Well, Nordstrom's isn't really an issue because, even if Disneyland did get a sponsorship by them, they probably wouldn't change the layout of the Emporium.

    But if they has a sponsorship by Costco, and totally changed the Emporium's layout to match Costco's, then it would bring up the same issue that Starbucks has.

  2. #377

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    Probably because it wasn't a Starbucks (or equivalent) retail location, It was the Market House that sold coffee, treats and other assorted items. Those who knew they sold Hills Brothers coffee and had that as their favorite coffee probably called it Hills Brothers.

    I have no doubt that Market House will be called Starbucks once it's open.
    Yep. There is no way, that after awhile, the Market House wont be called Starbucks.
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  3. #378

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    I think that the sheer number of them they're putting in is going to prevent that.

    "Hey, let's go to Starbucks!"

    "Wait, you mean coffee place on Main Street? The cart by the trams? The one out in Downtown Disney? Which one?"

    ~or~

    "Hey, let's grab some coffee down on Main Street on the way out!"

    "YEAH!"

    ___

    I'm really not joking - I've been texting friends asking about this, and other than the Disney nuts the amount that even have a clue where the Market House is hovers close to zero. I don't think most people even bother assigning a name to it beyond "place to get coffee".

    Honestly, if they attach ANY name to it - and I still think that's a longshot, see "3 Pigs" vs "Starbucks" as a discussion there - it's likely to be a good thing. For one, it'll show they finally got the place to register a distinct identity worth naming with them.
    No, because in today's society, it's all about now and the Market House will be called Starbucks which is sad. As for your friends, as soon as it is out that there is a Starbucks on Main Street, it will be called Starbucks. I don't call the Starbucks on Market or Post St " The coffee shop", why should it be any different at Disneyland?
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  4. #379

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by SparkChaser View Post
    So wait...if a main argument is that the original shops originated before or at the turn of the century. Does that mean any of you wouldn't complain if Starbucks came around the same time too? The fact is even during the 'golden age' of Main Street it already started too lose its charm when Disneyland Showcase opened in the Wurlitzer Music Shop.
    I would have issue with Starbucks even if they did date to 1900. They would still be pushing the image that does not fit. It is why I mentioned Abercrombie & Fitch earlier. Would they make for an appropriate store on Main Street, USA? They existed at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    Almost all the stuff you listed in the first paragraph were not improvements to the existing attractions, but were instead downgrades most of the time. I'm with you as far as that is concerned. However, replacing the Nescafe drinks with Starbucks drinks is improving what was there before imo. It is not the same Starbucks as in the mall.
    Themed entertainment is not just about the individual, measurable products. There is something bigger created by the composition.

  5. #380

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Westsider View Post
    Interior shots are hard to find, but they are out there. Here's a young guest standing inside the Kodak Camera Store on Main Street USA in 1959. There is modern linoleum on the floor, and modern display racks from the Kodak corporate office plopped around the shop, with modern Kodak logos and marketing slogans plastered on everything. No theme, no elaborate backstory, no Imagineer overcharging TDA for a hundred labor hours spent researching what exact color wood stain to paint the hand carved queue railings. Just a modern Kodak camera shop serving happy 1950's visitors.
    So, do you think that was appropriate? Or are you pointing out that there were MISTAKES made in the past?

    As I recall, the photo shop was always there and whatever photo company was the official Disneyland sponsor inhabited it.

    When Disneyland was first built, there were many shortcuts made due to Walt's attempt to create a new entertainment experience and fill it with companies that he was able to convince that it was a good idea. That doesn't mean that the "mistakes" he made were intentional.

    Disney is way beyond that now, when "mistakes" are made due to trying to be hip & edgy, current and relevant.

  6. #381

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    ...When Disneyland was first built, there were many shortcuts made due to Walt's attempt to create a new entertainment experience and fill it with companies that he was able to convince that it was a good idea. That doesn't mean that the "mistakes" he made were intentional.

    Disney is way beyond that now, when "mistakes" are made due to trying to be hip & edgy, current and relevant.
    Exactly. Up to the mid-80s and the advent of the Eisner regime, WED and Disneyland management not only had "written the book" on Disneyland as an entertainment medium in its own right, but were continually refining and improving the book.

    After the mid-80s, it became a badge of management membership to throw the book away. From color schemes to sightlines, ride themes to merchandise, customer service to costumes, the creative philosophy, spirit, soul and accumulated wisdom of what had made Disneyland world-famous were essentially dumped in favor of the new philosophy of running it as a corporate mass-marketing platform aimed at specific consumer demographics.
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  7. #382

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    I'm really not joking - I've been texting friends asking about this, and other than the Disney nuts the amount that even have a clue where the Market House is hovers close to zero.
    Sorta sad, and makes the point. Back in "the day" even non-Disney fans like my dad knew where the Market House was. Now it's just another Starbucks at the mall. Sorry...Not quite. Now it has wooden railings, because that's "just how it was." (Back in 1998).

    When I worked in downtown LA, we would ask each other "Want to get some coffee?" (translation: "Want to go to the kitchen?") or "Want to grab some Starbucks?" (translation "Want to grab some Starbucks?"). Market House is now Starbucks. Period. Anyone who thinks this is good for a Disney theme park (emphasis on THEME) can now enjoy it to their Trente upmost.

  8. #383

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Assuming ignorance will never generate an amazing creative experience. Great themed entertainment should aim to impress experts, not mildly amuse those who do not know or do not care. There is no accomplishment in the latter.

  9. #384

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    Seems that makes you third generation. Means that you are still two generations down though.

    By '83, some charm was probably lost, but if you don't feel that SINCE '83 that charm has been lost, then It appears that you are right, in that your generation is not the reason that you are willing to accept further small changes that weaken the creative quality of the park. Must be some other reason.
    I don't see how my not caring about The Market House selling GOOD coffee means that I'm ok in general with losing some of the original charm. I'm talking about one topic in particular. This isn't about Pirates of the Caribbean Starring Captain Jack Sparrow. This is much, much smaller than that. I don't see how this was interpreted any other way. It's almost as if I am now being told: "your generation caused THIS"......

    I don't get the "two generations down" part. Do you mean to imply that since I wasn't born when DL opened that I have no right to an opinion? BTW, my mom was born prior to the park's opening. So technically, I am the 2nd generation of my family born post-DL.
    "I do not like to repeat successes. I like to go on to other things." - Walt Disney

  10. #385

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    I think that the sheer number of them they're putting in is going to prevent that.

    "Hey, let's go to Starbucks!"

    "Wait, you mean coffee place on Main Street? The cart by the trams? The one out in Downtown Disney? Which one?"
    It won't really matter which location. It's Starbucks. When you suggest going to Starbucks in the real world, you don't specify which one unless you are going to meet someone at a specific location.

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    ~or~

    "Hey, let's grab some coffee down on Main Street on the way out!"

    "YEAH!"
    I seriously doubt that anyone will be that generic once they know that it's Starbucks.

  11. #386

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by 4th Gen Disney Fan View Post
    I don't see how my not caring about The Market House selling GOOD coffee means that I'm ok in general with losing some of the original charm. I'm talking about one topic in particular. This isn't about Pirates of the Caribbean Starring Captain Jack Sparrow. This is much, much smaller than that. I don't see how this was interpreted any other way. It's almost as if I am now being told: "your generation caused THIS".......
    As I (and others) have made a point of in the past, it's NOT about providing good coffee. They can sell Starbucks coffee all they want. The main issue for most is that they have converted the charming Market House into a Starbucks retail location.

  12. #387

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    Seems that makes you third generation. Means that you are still two generations down though.

    By '83, some charm was probably lost, but if you don't feel that SINCE '83 that charm has been lost, then It appears that you are right, in that your generation is not the reason that you are willing to accept further small changes that weaken the creative quality of the park. Must be some other reason.
    Should generations really matter in this discussion? I mean, look at me! I was born in '96. Technically I keep on getting lumped into the 'hipster' and 'uncool teenagers' that run amok in the parks, yet I love the small minute details and history of Disneyland as much as anyone else on this forum with a burning passion. I complain about the chipping paints, love the restorations of old relics, go to see the quiet spots and attractions every now and again, so on and so forth. Yet I don't mind a lot of these changes to Disneyland. Some are regrettable, I can agree, but the Market House/Starbucks conversion is not one of those to me. Is it because I was born in the wrong generation and could not experience the Market House in its heyday? I'd say no actually. I have seen the Market House in its final years as well as a few years prior to the conversion, and from what I understand, it wasn't that different from years prior. I like some of these changes that they are doing, and the interior doesn't look all that different. It's bigger, yes, but still well themed. I think people are imagining a modern Starbucks with their modern styles in the theming, which is a bit strange to think.

    Sorry if my thoughts didn't seem cohesive enough. I just couldn't find words because I was just so charged with emotions at that point.



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  13. #388

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Sorta sad, and makes the point. Back in "the day" even non-Disney fans like my dad knew where the Market House was. Now it's just another Starbucks at the mall. Sorry...Not quite. Now it has wooden railings, because that's "just how it was." (Back in 1998).

    When I worked in downtown LA, we would ask each other "Want to get some coffee?" (translation: "Want to go to the kitchen?") or "Want to grab some Starbucks?" (translation "Want to grab some Starbucks?"). Market House is now Starbucks. Period. Anyone who thinks this is good for a Disney theme park (emphasis on THEME) can now enjoy it to their Trente upmost.
    ...

    I'm not sure how you can blame *current* ignorance of the name of the location on a *future* tenant.
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  14. #389

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    As I (and others) have made a point of in the past, it's NOT about providing good coffee. They can sell Starbucks coffee all they want. The main issue for most is that they have converted the charming Market House into a Starbucks retail location.
    Its not a generic Starbucks though. That art sure doesnt look like the inside of any neighborhood Starbucks I've ever been to
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  15. #390

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    Re: New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    It won't really matter which location. It's Starbucks. When you suggest going to Starbucks in the real world, you don't specify which one unless you are going to meet someone at a specific location.



    I seriously doubt that anyone will be that generic once they know that it's Starbucks.
    exactly.
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