Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 35
  1. #16

    •   
    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,907

    Re: Any news on upcomming "major" changes to GAC program?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post

    The DMV has a more more stringent application process and that is pretty widely abused too. I always wondered why Disney didn't use the DMV documents as proof, but I am guessing that too might be against the law if Disney isn't already doing it.
    The problem with that is that not everyone who needs a GAC drives or has a DMV placard (or needs one). Requiring a DMV document would knock out a lot of people who have a genuine condition and need assistance or alternative access.
    Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

  2. #17

    •   
    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,907

    Re: Any news on upcomming "major" changes to GAC program?

    Disneyland could stop issuing GAC's tomorrow, and make all current GAC's invalid and worthless, and there is absolutely nothing that anyone could do about it. No federal or state law mandates that such a GAC courtesy be extended to any customer, in any industry or public facility. The ADA laws on the books only address physical barriers to buildings and facilities built after a certain date, that is all. And even then, those laws state that they only allow "equal access" to said facility. Radiator Springs Racers and all of DCA meet or exceed that standard by having all Standby queues fully wheelchair accessible with no incline greater than 12 degrees.
    That's not really true though. A lot of GACs provide equal access and DO address those physical barriers. And a lot of the time those accessible entrances at DCA, etc. are available only with presentation of a GAC. Without the GAC that allows me to use elevators and ramps, I would be denied access to several rides, such as Splash Mountain (built after 1990 and under the protection of the ADA), Indy (ditto), some of the Paradise Pier rides (again) and so forth. Even at RSR, I go through the regular queue but I have to veer over to the wheelchair access area to avoid steps. So GAC or no GAC they would have to issue some sort of pass to allow access to those alternative entrances and exits.
    Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

  3. #18

    • -
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Uijeongbu
    Posts
    6,593

    Re: Any news on upcomming "major" changes to GAC program?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Isn't that the part that is technically against the law? Maybe its not against the law to tell people its a longer wait when in fact it isn't, but definitely against the law to make disabled folks wait longer than everyone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Actually I think you might be right. The ADA does required equal access, but due to its age, I believe Pirates may be exempt from complying with the ADA.
    The ADA in no way requires equal access. It requires “reasonable accommodation”. That is a big difference.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  4. #19

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    2,247

    Re: Any news on upcomming "major" changes to GAC program?

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    The ADA in no way requires equal access. It requires “reasonable accommodation”. That is a big difference.
    ^ This.

  5. #20

    • New Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    22

    Re: Any news on upcomming "major" changes to GAC program?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    The problem with that is that not everyone who needs a GAC drives or has a DMV placard (or needs one). Requiring a DMV document would knock out a lot of people who have a genuine condition and need assistance or alternative access.
    Yeah same here. I have a knee that is okay 90% of the time, but when my issue does flare up, I'm not supposed to take stairs. I am not 'handicapped' perse, by any DMV standpoint (and very lucky not to be so), but the GAC is such a great thing that is offered to help people in my situation.

  6. #21

    • Singing Drinker
    • Online

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    2,037

    Re: Any news on upcomming "major" changes to GAC program?

    Quote Originally Posted by bettiebloodshed View Post
    Yeah same here. I have a knee that is okay 90% of the time, but when my issue does flare up, I'm not supposed to take stairs. I am not 'handicapped' perse, by any DMV standpoint (and very lucky not to be so), but the GAC is such a great thing that is offered to help people in my situation.
    Not to mention disabled children who would not have DMV documents, individuals who've learned how to compensate without a car and wouldn't have them for that reason, etc...
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  7. #22

    •   
    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,907

    Re: Any news on upcomming "major" changes to GAC program?

    Quote Originally Posted by bettiebloodshed View Post
    Yeah same here. I have a knee that is okay 90% of the time, but when my issue does flare up, I'm not supposed to take stairs. I am not 'handicapped' perse, by any DMV standpoint (and very lucky not to be so), but the GAC is such a great thing that is offered to help people in my situation.
    I agree. I think it's wonderful that it's there for those who need it!

    And it seems as though we have a similar issue there with knees. I'm not supposed to take stairs because of my knees - they are too unstable and they can give out on me on stairs, so I have to avoid them. In every other respect I'm fine.
    Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

  8. #23

    • Disney Philosopher
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    I.E. SoCal, USA
    Posts
    217

    Re: Any news on upcomming "major" changes to GAC program?

    Here's #3 with the knees. Mine goes phantom momentarily, so I require a cane and am a little on th slow side.

    Don't mean to hijack this thread, but a BIG pet peeve of mine are the trams. All the time I see lazy parents with their huge strollers on the handicap access ramps, making those that really need them wait. Happened everyday this weekend Fri-Mon. And it was hot. I asked CM about this and while they agreed it was wrong, they are told they were not allowed to say ANYTHING. I even seen strollers go on the short buses.
    "These are a few of my favorite things"


  9. #24

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    6 hours from the House of Mouse
    Posts
    3,599

    Re: Any news on upcomming "major" changes to GAC program?

    While I am about 99% certain you didn't see this this past weekend, be aware that due to some children's illnesses, children who need them will use a stroller in place of a wheelchair at younger ages. I know a mom with a 5yo, who prefers using a stroller to a wheelchair, and gets the stroller stamp. They are allowed to use the WC access areas with the stroller. They would be allowed to use the Disney parking vans.
    If you see a cute yellow lab puppy with a yellow cape, WAVE! It might be us! (Or it may be someone else that lurks here!) Thank you for asking before you pet! Next trip, Dec 22-Jan 3rd.

  10. #25

    • Special Agent
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,153

    Re: Any news on upcomming "major" changes to GAC program?

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    The ADA in no way requires equal access. It requires “reasonable accommodation”. That is a big difference.
    I think I understand what you mean. Certainly with regard to "equal access" the ADA doesn't say that someone who requires a mobility device must be able to navigate through Tarzan's Treehouse. That will probably never happen. But utlimately the end goal of the ADA is or Americans with disabilities to be treated as equal as everyone else. Maybe instead of saying equal access, a better phrase would be equal enjoyment? The exact wording of the ADA is this:

    No individual shall be discriminated against on the basis of disability in the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of any place of public accommodation by any private entity who owns, leases (or leases to), or operates a place of public accommodation.
    I went through and read a whole lot of it (Full disclosure: I skipped some of the parts relating to miniature horses) and after reading it, and consulting with a couple friends I think I have a clearer picture of what this all means for Disneyland. This is simply just my interpretation as I wasn't really able to locate any case law pertaining to wait times:

    Public accommodations must make reasonable modifications in policies, practices, and procedures that deny equal access to individuals with disabilities, unless a fundamental alteration would result in the nature of the goods and services provided.
    There is no grandfather clause. Everything that can be reasonably upgraded must be.This is why Disney has gone back and
    spent thousands of dollars adding wheelchair accessible boats to Small World and redesigning King Arthur Caroussel.

    No individual shall be discriminated against on the basis of disability in the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of any place of public accommodation by any private entity who owns, leases (or leases to), or operates a place of public accommodation.
    Disney cannot descriminate against anyone with a disability from participating in the same experience. My conclusion being, that Disney cannot make someone who is disabled wait longer for a ride simply because they are disabled. There is of course a safety excemption for this:

    A public accommodation may impose legitimate safety requirements that are necessary for safe operation. Safety requirements must be based on actual risks and not on mere speculation, stereotypes, or generalizations about individuals with disabilities.
    So if the guest needs to use a special vehicle to ride, then yes they do have to wait. And the safety requirements have to be pretty well documented and backed with science. BUT (this is a big but), if the guest is able to be accomodated in a standard ride vehicle and partake in the standard ride experience, they cannot be forced to wait longer than another guest simply because they have a disability. This is the legal gray area known as "reasonable."

    So as far as Pirates of the Caribbean goes, since everyone must transfer into the same kind of boat, there shouldn't be a limit based on the type of ride vehicle. There could be other limitations (such as the number of non-ambulatory guests allowed on the ride at a time), but again that is all something that disney has to monitor and track and make sure they have good numbers supporting it.

    If a person is ambulatory, able to transfer into a ride vehicle, and display no other symptoms or disabilities AND they say they are disabled, Disney has to accomodate them. If they say their disability precludes them waiting in line, Disney still has to accomodate them and make sure they wait an equal amount of time as everyone else.

    Westsider was generally right in saying that there is no legal requirement to issue GAC cards. the creation of the GAC cards though was an attemp on Disney's part to reduce the waiting of disabled guests at the exits, by funneling some folks with disabilities through the normal queue whenever possible. This also of course, legally covers them from the situation I am describing: wherein someone who has a disabliity but can be reasonably accomodated on the ride cannot wait longer than someone without a disability. If that guest with a disability is funneled to the standby wait, and waits an equal amount of time as everyone else, they are legally accomodated.

    If I have a disability that precludes me from waiting in a line for more than 10 minutes, but can otherwise be accomodated, and I get funneled to an exit queue where I end up waiting 40 minutes with folks who cannot be accomodated, then Disney has just violated the ADA.

    Anyway... just some rambling. The one thing I do strongly believe after thinking about this so much is that Disney's team of lawyers have made sure they are 100% within accomodation as far as the law can be interpretted. And obviously they have access to a lot more information than I do.

  11. #26

    • Special Agent
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,153

    Re: Any news on upcomming "major" changes to GAC program?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    The problem with that is that not everyone who needs a GAC drives or has a DMV placard (or needs one). Requiring a DMV document would knock out a lot of people who have a genuine condition and need assistance or alternative access.
    Let me add this too: I think requiring any kind of documentation would end up knocking out a lot of people who have a genuine condition. Changes to the health care law aside, not everyone who has a disability has access to a doctor and from what I have read, having a doctors note is not a requirement of the ADA.

    Disney's policy of taking everyone's word for it, seems to be the generally supported position of the ADA.

  12. #27

    • Singing Drinker
    • Online

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    2,037

    Re: Any news on upcomming "major" changes to GAC program?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Let me add this too: I think requiring any kind of documentation would end up knocking out a lot of people who have a genuine condition. Changes to the health care law aside, not everyone who has a disability has access to a doctor and from what I have read, having a doctors note is not a requirement of the ADA.

    Disney's policy of taking everyone's word for it, seems to be the generally supported position of the ADA.
    Which all gets back to the issue of "how to deal with abuse" - if everyone's allowed to claim disability, if there is no repercussion for doing so illicitly, and at no point is anyone allowed to verify or even question your claim, why wouldn't you?
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  13. #28

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    6 hours from the House of Mouse
    Posts
    3,599

    Re: Any news on upcomming "major" changes to GAC program?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    So as far as Pirates of the Caribbean goes, since everyone must transfer into the same kind of boat, there shouldn't be a limit based on the type of ride vehicle. There could be other limitations (such as the number of non-ambulatory guests allowed on the ride at a time), but again that is all something that disney has to monitor and track and make sure they have good numbers supporting it.
    This is where your interpretation takes a wrong turn. The reason POTC wait is longer is due to the limitation on evacuation abilities. Because of the evacuation procedures, they can have 6 disabled on the ride at one time. The reason is safety. Your last paragraph is right on the money though. Disney has made sure they are within the ADA requirements, and in most cases, they go above and beyond. Disney is one of the most ADA friendly theme parks in the US.
    If you see a cute yellow lab puppy with a yellow cape, WAVE! It might be us! (Or it may be someone else that lurks here!) Thank you for asking before you pet! Next trip, Dec 22-Jan 3rd.

  14. #29

    • Special Agent
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,153

    Re: Any news on upcomming "major" changes to GAC program?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    This is where your interpretation takes a wrong turn. The reason POTC wait is longer is due to the limitation on evacuation abilities. Because of the evacuation procedures, they can have 6 disabled on the ride at one time.
    I did mention that it was possible they had a rule about non-ambulatory guests being on the attraction. However if a guest can walk and are disabled in another way, they cannot make them wait any longer than any other ambulatory guest. That's where things here get sticky, because if the practice is to only allow x number of people from the exit queue to ride in y amount of time, regardless of disability, they could be in violation.

    And although I actually agree that such a policy is probably in place, I can't help but think that such a policy might still be in violation of the ADA. The reason: one bit of case law that did come up in my search was the man who sued Disney for being on Small World for 40 minutes. He alledged that all abled body people were removed from the ride but he was forced to stay. As far as the ADA is concerned, that is absolutely discrimination and he ended up winning that case. Obviously from Disney's perspective though, they certainly would not have their Cast Members assist a non-ambulatory guest off the ride because it opens them up to more liability. Truth be told, if Pirates broke down with a non-ambulatory guest on board, it's very doubtful that Disney would be on the hook for getting them out of the ride. Worst case scenario, they would wait until the ride was running again or be forced to call the fire department - whichever they think would take less time.

    At least, Disney would not help them unless they signed a waiver.

  15. #30

    •   
    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,907

    Re: Any news on upcomming "major" changes to GAC program?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Let me add this too: I think requiring any kind of documentation would end up knocking out a lot of people who have a genuine condition. Changes to the health care law aside, not everyone who has a disability has access to a doctor and from what I have read, having a doctors note is not a requirement of the ADA.

    Disney's policy of taking everyone's word for it, seems to be the generally supported position of the ADA.
    Totally true. Not everyone has the ability to see a doctor and requiring a note could be problematic. Plus as mentioned, some people probably know how to finagle a doctor's note, or forge one, so there's no guarantee that there wouldn't be guests who game that system the same way they game the GAC system.
    Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [News] Any News On The New Fantasmic Dragon "Murphy"? v3.0
    By Explicit in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 08-27-2009, 08:57 PM
  2. Any news yet on this...?
    By Barbossa in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-03-2005, 12:10 AM
  3. Going to DL next week, any news on California Screaming??
    By DisneylandPlanner in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-11-2005, 12:15 PM
  4. Six Flags.. any news?
    By Skipper S in forum Other Destinations
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-25-2005, 10:46 PM
  5. Any news on the next Magic Mountain ride?
    By Scribby in forum Other Destinations
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-19-2005, 07:02 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •