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  1. #16

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    Re: Gac/das- a different point of view?

    I keep hearing about parents and individuals how hard it is already to visit Disneyland. Now I hear its going to make it harder for people with disabilities to visit. I have all the sympathy in the world. The best solution though is if you don't agree take money some where else.

    I say exactly the same to people who complain about price rises. Disney is all about money. If people go some where else with their money and enough of them, maybe they will listen.

    Disney created this problem, they should fix it.

    I believe most people with disabilities would have no problem presenting a document from a doctor to get a gac. Its the acu and people with no real disabilities who would complain.

  2. #17

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    Re: Gac/das- a different point of view?

    Quote Originally Posted by hhsdc34 View Post
    So your telling me it's a 'right' of the disabled to be first in line all the time? Could you point out the section of the ADA that states that?
    I like this statement. Thank you.

    honestly, it's not a right, to skip ahead. That would be giving a preferential treatment to one person over another and that is not fair. Fast passing in lieu of line skipping is fair.
    I, would never expect the parks to hand me a line skipping gold card, but that's me.

    Ive been in the park with a disabled family member and never once did we take advantage of the GAC. We felt it was not fair to begin with, despite the challenges we had with our disabled family member. We made it through the park, happily and successfully. Fulfilled.

    I believe the parks should only comply with ADA rules and suggestions, only.

  3. #18

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    Re: Gac/das- a different point of view?

    Quote Originally Posted by Callaghans View Post
    I believe most people with disabilities would have no problem presenting a document from a doctor to get a gac. Its the acu and people with no real disabilities who would complain.
    I can understand why requiring documentation would be a problem. Disneyland can't discriminate and disabled people have the same right to visit as the rest of us and therefor access can't be turned down just because you don't have proof. What if you can't afford to go to the doctor to get proof? Should you be refused access because you can't afford to show documentation?
    Favorite Ride: Tower of Terror

  4. #19

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    Re: Gac/das- a different point of view?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
    I can understand why requiring documentation would be a problem. Disneyland can't discriminate and disabled people have the same right to visit as the rest of us and therefor access can't be turned down just because you don't have proof. What if you can't afford to go to the doctor to get proof? Should you be refused access because you can't afford to show documentation?
    If you can't afford to visit a doctor, you really should reconsider visiting Disneyland...

  5. #20

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    Re: Gac/das- a different point of view?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Some things I would do:

    1. Limit GACs to two weeks, the way they are now.
    2. Get the names and photos of everyone on the GAC (they already do this with APs) and require that the GAC holder be present at the rides (nobody gets to ride without them).
    3. Limit the number of people that can be added to one. That's how it's done in theaters; you can have one companion with you in the accessible seating.
    4. Allow people to use Fastpasses as their GAC return time on rides where that is available (ie, you have a GAC. You get a Fastpass. You use your FP at the appropriate time but go in the alternative entrance. They did this at Star Tours when I visited with my Mom, who had an ECV).
    5. Work on making more rides fully accessible.
    6. Limit the green light stamps, but continue to have the 5-7 different other stamp for GACs, since different disabled have different needs.
    7. On rides without Fastpasses, or where FPs aren't available anymore, allow CMs at the exits of each ride to issue return time cards.
    I'll go through this each time.

    1. This is a change I imagine will occur within the first few weeks of DSA rolling out. Or at least a middle ground of one a week. The daily reissuing seems like a hassle for everyone involved.
    2. From reading the Micechat article on it (which is where I'm getting most of my info from) this is going to be happening with the DSA tags. Guest relations will be taking photos of the people being issued the cards that will attach to the front of the card, along with their name, and those people must be present when the card is used, from getting a return time, to actually boarding.
    3. I have to imagine they've wanted to do this with the current GAC system for awhile, but there's a saying I heard once, "Once you give something for free, it's hard to take it back." For this example, I almost wonder if the number of riders gets pared down to 4 or 3.
    4. This one is really a no-brainer, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's already a part of the coming system. Say you have a wheelchair, and you get a Fastpass for Splash Mountain. You would still need to access the handicapped entrance to use it. I just assume that you'd get to the line, and flash your Fastpasses and DSA card, and proceed as if you had a return card.
    5. This will be the tricky one. As mentioned, everything in DCA is already good to go, and a good half of Disneyland is accessible. Retrofitting the other parts will probably take more time, though, especially considering that it's probably a low budgetary priority compared getting new offerings such as the rumored Monstropolis section of DCA and the rumored retooling of Tomorrowland. An easy fix here would be singling out 1-2 rides a year for retrofitting, and work on that in addition to the larger projects, but I doubt Disney is looking that far ahead.
    6. I can only address one aspect of this, but it looks like Disney is outsourcing most of the green light stamping to organizations like Make a Wish, which is probably a good idea. The other stamp codes I can't address, mostly out of ignorance and I apologize for that.
    7. This is what the kiosks are for, and from a logistical standpoint, I can understand why they'd do it. If the purpose of the system is to limit overabuse, it helps to have the return cards be issued from centralized locations rather than by exit CMs, especially when you can add technology to track when return cards were issued and prevent people from gathering as many return cards as possible. Really, I just imagine the DSA cards will have a barcode or a swipe strip on the back so that they can monitor when return cards were issued, similar to the Fastpass system. Setting up a booth or scanner at each ride exit just doesn't make logistical sense. It sucks, but it's understandable.

  6. #21

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    Re: Gac/das- a different point of view?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirya View Post
    2. From reading the Micechat article on it (which is where I'm getting most of my info from) this is going to be happening with the DSA tags. Guest relations will be taking photos of the people being issued the cards that will attach to the front of the card, along with their name, and those people must be present when the card is used, from getting a return time, to actually boarding.
    What I meant with this was that I want them to photograph/record names of the accompanying guest(s), too. That would perhaps make it easier to identify those who are abusing the GACs. If someone is supposedly critically ill and they have a green light pass - but Guest Services can see that they've shown up every week end with a new group of five people - it becomes very apparent that something's up.

    For the photos for the DAS/GAC users themselves, it's a shame that they can't figure out a way to attach them to the APs or hopper tickets. Or give someone a permanent DAS card with their photo that can be scanned and activated when they come into the park. Back when the APs had photos that would have been perfect - put some sort of stamp or sticker on the AP to designate it as a GAC. The AP holder can't get into the park without going through the turnstiles and having their photo confirmed by the gate CMs, so it would stop the GACs from getting passed around.
    Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

  7. #22

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    Re: Gac/das- a different point of view?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    What I meant with this was that I want them to photograph/record names of the accompanying guest(s), too. That would perhaps make it easier to identify those who are abusing the GACs. If someone is supposedly critically ill and they have a green light pass - but Guest Services can see that they've shown up every week end with a new group of five people - it becomes very apparent that something's up.

    For the photos for the DAS/GAC users themselves, it's a shame that they can't figure out a way to attach them to the APs or hopper tickets. Or give someone a permanent DAS card with their photo that can be scanned and activated when they come into the park. Back when the APs had photos that would have been perfect - put some sort of stamp or sticker on the AP to designate it as a GAC. The AP holder can't get into the park without going through the turnstiles and having their photo confirmed by the gate CMs, so it would stop the GACs from getting passed around.
    APs still have photos when you enter the park, they're just not on the actual card, so this is a possibility. It'd work well if they do go with a scanning system on the DAS cards; just turn the AP into a more permanent card. I can still see a way to abuse that, much in the same way GAC's are being abused by people paying for handicapped tourguides. The price of doing business is an AP at that point, but it would cut down on some hassle.

  8. #23

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    Re: Gac/das- a different point of view?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirya View Post
    7. This is what the kiosks are for, and from a logistical standpoint, I can understand why they'd do it. If the purpose of the system is to limit overabuse, it helps to have the return cards be issued from centralized locations rather than by exit CMs, especially when you can add technology to track when return cards were issued and prevent people from gathering as many return cards as possible. Really, I just imagine the DSA cards will have a barcode or a swipe strip on the back so that they can monitor when return cards were issued, similar to the Fastpass system. Setting up a booth or scanner at each ride exit just doesn't make logistical sense. It sucks, but it's understandable.
    They already have the CMs directly issue return times at a few rides, like Star Tours and RSR, and it seems to work well.

    There really isn't going to be a centralized system, with seven kiosks between DCA and Disneyland, and staff writing things out by hand on the DAS. Whether the CM at the exit or at the kiosk is writing the return time, it's going to be the same; no central record. From what I understand there's actually going to be space on the DAS to write in the times. If that is the case it doesn't matter where someone gets their return time - the CM can look and see what's on the DAS and if the previous return time has come and gone yet. If that's not true and they're handing out cards - and there's no computerized system - there's still nothing stopping someone from making the rounds to all the kiosks and getting lots of return cards.

    If they figured out a way to make a computerized DAS it could be networked like the Fastpasses - go to the attraction, swipe your card, and if you're eligible to get another return time/card, you're good to go.
    Last edited by Malina; 09-21-2013 at 12:18 AM.
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  9. #24

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    Re: Gac/das- a different point of view?

    To add on to another point on that post, photographing everyone in the party also satisfies another complaint I've seen from people, about loss of stamina/children with special needs i.e. XP, etc. Having multiple people attached to a DAS card would allow for healthier members of the group to do the traveling to and from kiosks, meaning other members of the group could stay indoors/rest/do something else. Again, it opens the system up to abuse, but it's another idea.

  10. #25

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    Re: Gac/das- a different point of view?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirya View Post
    APs still have photos when you enter the park, they're just not on the actual card, so this is a possibility. It'd work well if they do go with a scanning system on the DAS cards; just turn the AP into a more permanent card. I can still see a way to abuse that, much in the same way GAC's are being abused by people paying for handicapped tourguides. The price of doing business is an AP at that point, but it would cut down on some hassle.
    true - but it would save some time for those who truly need it - and it would also allow Guest Services to observe patterns, which would help them find the tour guides. Right now with the GACs, if you have one there's nothing stopping you from coming in every day with different guests, or lending it to a friend, etc. If it's linked to your AP, it admits only you and one guest, and it's tracked more closely, it's easier to find those who are scamming the system.
    Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

  11. #26

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    Re: Gac/das- a different point of view?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirya View Post
    To add on to another point on that post, photographing everyone in the party also satisfies another complaint I've seen from people, about loss of stamina/children with special needs i.e. XP, etc. Having multiple people attached to a DAS card would allow for healthier members of the group to do the traveling to and from kiosks, meaning other members of the group could stay indoors/rest/do something else. Again, it opens the system up to abuse, but it's another idea.
    Great point. I think there's going to be a lot of concern about having to haul seriously ill/mobility impaired guests back and forth to the kiosks, and if there were a "family DAS" it could really help.
    Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

  12. #27

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    Re: Gac/das- a different point of view?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    They already have the CMs directly issue return times at a few rides, like Star Tours and RSR, and it seems to work well.

    There really isn't going to be a centralized system, with seven kiosks between DCA and Disneyland, and staff writing things out by hand on the DAS. Whether the CM at the exit or at the kiosk is writing the return time, it's going to be the same; no central record. From what I understand there's actually going to be space on the DAS to write in the times. If that is the case it doesn't matter where someone gets their return time - the CM can look and see what's on the DAS and if the previous return time has come and gone yet. If that's not true and they're handing out cards - and there's no computerized system - there's still nothing stopping someone from making the rounds to all the kiosks and getting lots of return cards.

    If they figured out a way to make a computerized DAS it could be networked like the Fastpasses - go to the attraction, swipe your card, and if you're eligible to get another return time/card, you're good to go.
    I wish/hope they go with a computerized version rather than handwritten/stamped version. You could cut down on so much time, and it'd allow for much easier data consumption to monitor usage and patterns in the system. And I think that'd be a reason to do the centralized kiosks, which in my perfect world, would involve someone arriving at a counter, handing over their DAS/AP, and saying what ride they'd like. From there, the CM swipes the card, finds the ride, and issues a return ticket.

    Although, in my perfect world, you wouldn't need to return to the kiosk to use the return ticket. Simply take the ticket at the designated time to the ride in question, and proceed as if it were a Fastpass. To reduce misuse, you can only get a new return ticket after a certain amount of time (probably 5 minutes) and the return times are strictly enforced (i.e. you have 20 minutes from the start of your return time).

    Finally, thank you for the dialogue. It's a lot easier to hash out potential problems this way then dismissing the new system (which, again, hasn't even debuted yet and is pure speculation at this point) out of hand.

  13. #28

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    Re: Gac/das- a different point of view?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirya View Post
    I wish/hope they go with a computerized version rather than handwritten/stamped version. You could cut down on so much time, and it'd allow for much easier data consumption to monitor usage and patterns in the system. And I think that'd be a reason to do the centralized kiosks, which in my perfect world, would involve someone arriving at a counter, handing over their DAS/AP, and saying what ride they'd like. From there, the CM swipes the card, finds the ride, and issues a return ticket.

    Although, in my perfect world, you wouldn't need to return to the kiosk to use the return ticket. Simply take the ticket at the designated time to the ride in question, and proceed as if it were a Fastpass. To reduce misuse, you can only get a new return ticket after a certain amount of time (probably 5 minutes) and the return times are strictly enforced (i.e. you have 20 minutes from the start of your return time).

    Finally, thank you for the dialogue. It's a lot easier to hash out potential problems this way then dismissing the new system (which, again, hasn't even debuted yet and is pure speculation at this point) out of hand.
    I really like this idea. There are definitely a lot of feasible ways to improve the system, and I hope Disney tries at least some of them.

    Thank you for the dialogue too! Discussing ideas and brainstorming is definitely constructive and interesting with this topic.
    Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

  14. #29

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    Re: Gac/das- a different point of view?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwingdolt View Post
    I like this statement. Thank you.

    honestly, it's not a right, to skip ahead. That would be giving a preferential treatment to one person over another and that is not fair. Fast passing in lieu of line skipping is fair.
    I, would never expect the parks to hand me a line skipping gold card, but that's me.

    Ive been in the park with a disabled family member and never once did we take advantage of the GAC. We felt it was not fair to begin with, despite the challenges we had with our disabled family member. We made it through the park, happily and successfully. Fulfilled.

    I believe the parks should only comply with ADA rules and suggestions, only.
    In reading what other's have been posting here and in other forums concerning this issue. I'm under the distinct impression that certain people feel this is a 'right'.

  15. #30

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    Re: Gac/das- a different point of view?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    What I meant with this was that I want them to photograph/record names of the accompanying guest(s), too. That would perhaps make it easier to identify those who are abusing the GACs. If someone is supposedly critically ill and they have a green light pass - but Guest Services can see that they've shown up every week end with a new group of five people - it becomes very apparent that something's up.

    For the photos for the DAS/GAC users themselves, it's a shame that they can't figure out a way to attach them to the APs or hopper tickets. Or give someone a permanent DAS card with their photo that can be scanned and activated when they come into the park. Back when the APs had photos that would have been perfect - put some sort of stamp or sticker on the AP to designate it as a GAC. The AP holder can't get into the park without going through the turnstiles and having their photo confirmed by the gate CMs, so it would stop the GACs from getting passed around.
    I have two responses to this, I am critically ill and have been given the green light pass and often the CM's at the attractions will tell me to just in in regular line like everyone else, a line that was over an hour long (TOT) !! I pointed this out to city hall and they said "they see this so rarely that they proabably didnt know what it meant if that happens have them call city hall" hardly a solution..

    Also does it occur to anyone that maybe having to have the disabled go and wait in lines to get photographed and have to show a id card with a photo at every attraction each and every time you want to go to the park makes you feel like a second class citizen while everyone else can just go in and start their day you have spend 30 minutes or more (trust me it takes that long) before you can start your day and in my case I can only be there 3.5 hrs max so there goes 30 mins of my day.

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